Democracy Vs.......................??

[Götterdämmerung]

In India's case, it's more appropriate to talk about ochlocracy and not democracy.

The only country I know of that come quite near the definition of democracy is Switzerland, but not even them have reached 100% democracy.

Germany, by our basic right (we don't have a constitution) is defined as a republic that functions on the basis of indirect democracy, which of course is a farce, as special interest groups (aka the oligarchs) run the government.

 

[Nan Yang]

What India needs is not more democracy but more good governance. Lee Kuan Yew.

 

[Genesis]

China has money, but not the ideological weight the Soviet union carried. While that makes China far less powerful internationally, nationally it is stronger than the Soviet union was.

It is indeed an interesting question, how long will the communist party monopolize power in China? I would like to ask this to a Chinese poster, but all we have are chestthumping trolls here. Plus it may not be safe for these people to touch such blasphemous topics. The CPC spends hundreds of billions on controlling its people, can a challenge still emerge?

Without an economic meltdown that seems unlikely a challenge to CPC also seems unlikely. And even in such a scenario of an economic meltdown the CPC will try to direct the energies of Chinese people outward by getting into military confrontations with foreign powers.

Coming back to India, our system remains slow to move. Certainly less competent. Consensus also is slow to market. But our system makes our foundations strong. I have to hope this will keep us in good shape long term.

CCP is a very arbitrary name. Would it make one feel better if it was called the unicorn scotch party? Would it be better if each faction was its own party?

China's system has serious flaws, yes, but one thing people must realize is there is no discrimination against any individuals like it has previously. This is a serious distinction, meaning it is a country without a second party, but it is a country with multiple factions. The Qing dynasty had a racial bias, the previous Communist rule had a birth bias, today, it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, connected or not, you have a chance. That's not to say, unlike Trump or the Nehru Gandhi family that born rich doesn't matter, but it is not a death sentence to one's political career.

Now to foundation, what is it? Nazi Germany recovered quickly, so did Fascist Japan. While most of Asia still is not much better than Africa, and Africa is not much better when it was served scrambled.

Foundation is the experience China gained in the international community, Foundation is the education Chinese people have received, Foundation is the expertise China has gained from building roads and houses, Foundation is the expectation that the government must move to provide or GTFO.

People can have differing views, but when one stop seeing the world as others tell it to, and see it without any labels, we can see very clearly what would achieve what.

Ok, scratch Taiwan - it made a successful transition to democracy in the 80s.

But in general - comparing nations within a given geographical region with shared history and cultural values - in the long term - democracies have done better than other forms of government.

Partly because when a dictatorship or theocracy or military junta or single party rule or monarchy - breaks down - which it will eventually - a lot of the gains made are lost

So similar nations over decades do better under democracy.

There are exceptions - but the rule stands for the most part.

Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. We go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

Is that still the mantle of America? Is it of India?

The world has changed, democracy has changed. It's not that democracy won't work, but India has moved to a me first system way too fast. There just isn't enough resource to go around. If America misses a few billions, it won't go to the moon or invest in AI. If India does, someone is going without water and electricity.

Democracy works, but not all democracies are the same, just as not all authoritarian is the same. Hence you don't see Somalia as a threat.

Modi is the best thing that has happened to India in a long time. We hope he is there till atleast 2024. There is a saying that when your enemies (Pakistan and China) start to critisize you continuously that means that you are doing progress. The more Pakistanis and Chinese critisize Modi the more we are sure that we made the right choice.

By that logic, make way for Hitler, he is the best thing to happen to the world since Stalin.

I know what you mean, but media today is weird to say the least. Liberal Taiwan media has changed its story on "broken" Chinese destroyer at least 3 times now, and now that it is back in harbor on its own, the narrative has once again changed.

If it was just Taiwan sure, but Indian and world media quoted it without checking the facts and now a false story is a top story.

Reporter makes fake stories because people don't care and they have a quota to meet, so they must do what they must to draw views, and good news is never what people want to see.

It is never a good idea to see what Pakistan and China says, especially since no one in China reads Global times, no one in China even uses paper money, who would read a newspaper.

 

[Nan Yang]

I have posted this one in one of the sundry Doklam related threads in Chinese section in reply to one Chinese member....would love to hear other aspects, additions, agreements, disagreements, opinion on this topic from all members. @scorpionx @nair @Sky lord @SarthakGanguly @Levina @gslv mk3 @SrNair @Nilgiri @Skull and Bones @jetray @full metal @Joe Shearer @hellfire @HariPrasad @MilSpec @fsayed @Rajaraja Chola @Mr.Nair @SOUTHie @utrash @Stag112 @ranjit @arp2041 and all others irrespective of nationalities.




Okay...let's dig deeper, shall we?

What is the most important factor for long term success & growth of a country, is it industry, HDI, economy? None of these, it's the political system in place that decides the fate of a country in the longer run, it forms the very important foundation of a country, and we know the consequences of a weak foundation. Democracy has certain flaws, its takes time to build the system with all components in place, ours is 70 years old and still improving itself continuously, the decision making and especially implementation is slow in a democracy, it tends to avoid hard economic decision that might offend people...etc. But among all its faults, it has a basic difference with any non-democratic systems; be it a dictatorship, monarchy, religious state, or communism...that is, in a democracy the political system is separate from the ruling regime, in a democracy the ruler or regime may change, and they do change through votes, but the political system remains intact, thus ensuring long term stability with near zero risk of the whole system crashing down to dust, provided the system has matured to a reasonable degree with checks & balances to prevent any hijacking...which we have already achieved.

A non-democratic system; be it a dictatorship, monarchy, religious state, or communism has its strengths, provided the people in power are a capable lot. In this system the decision making and especially implementation is faster, it can take hard economic decision without worrying much about whether it might offend people, etc. In short, democracy's weaknesses are its strengths, but then...democracy's strengths are its weaknesses. With all its positive sides, a non-democratic system has a shelf-life, an expiry date, it is short-lived, unstable, and it ends, and when it ends, everything it has built come crushing down with it. Because, unlike a democracy, here the political system and the ruling regime are inseparable, the ruling regime itself is the political system, and it creates a large void when it ends...there can be a possibility of peaceful transfer of power, but that rarely happens, and even if it happens, a major disruption is unavoidable. And we can see examples of it all across the world.

India has built a stable democratic political system after decades of improvements & necessary modifications, and all the stake-holders have learned to respect it, we won't have to worry about a meltdown of the political system that forms the very basis, the foundation of our nation, and now we can focus more on all other important aspects of our country. The weaknesses of a democracy mitigates as it gets matured, and the results of which have started showing in our country.

But China is yet to build such a stable political system, it has built its nation on a weak foundation that is bound to go away at some point in time, CCP won't be ruling China forever, and the transition will be a major disruption...if not a complete meltdown. And then China will have to build a new political system from scratch, most likely a democratic one, and it would need to spend decades improving & perfecting it...with all the expected disruptions in its economy and social structure during the transition process that may take decades to become a stable one.

I will end this post here by quoting a paragraph from your link:

"China, which followed the Soviet model that lifted Russia from a big but backward agrarian state to a global superpower before its 1991 collapse, granted total power to the Communist Party; Beijing continues to crack down severely on any form of dissent".

And Russia is yet to become a democracy in true sense even after so many years, there will still be a void after Putin.

Gosh. Its been over 60 years. China already won. Case closed.

 

[wiseone2]

CCP is a very arbitrary name. Would it make one feel better if it was called the unicorn scotch party? Would it be better if each faction was its own party?

You are not a communist state. Call it to reflect reality