Democracy in Asia-Pacific

[nang2]

Promoting political ideology is always annoying, either democracy or communism.

 

[Aepsilons]

Whereas in an emergency, more authoritarian government may be justified for a time, the "gold standard" of what constitutes a successful state is still based on things like representative government, the rule of consistent law, the right to redress grievances and expression, free press, individual dignity and rights respected, and a respect for private property, private enterprise and market capitalism. In states that adopt some or all of those values compared to those that don't, the difference over time is impossible to ignore. That is why countries such as my own and other capitalist democracies, will continue to stay strong and prosper.

Let's broaden it a bit, @Desertfalcon , shall we?

 

[Desertfalcon]

Let's broaden it a bit, @Desertfalcon , shall we?

Absolutely! And what did that image of China look like BEFORE the free market reforms of Deng Xiaoping? China has transformed herself in just a few decades BECAUSE she dropped the "dead end" of state socialism/Marxism and adopted capitalist values and norms.

 

[Piper]

Democracy is dead! Long live the democracy!!

Well to be fair to the Chinas of the world - even in the best of democracy it is about illusion of a choice. Real choices which matter are curiously hard to come by.

Look at campaign finance and the implications of citizens united. It was a blow to the fundamentals of US democratic system. Now the wealthy and special interests are free to buy the Presidency and we can just applaud! The fact that a Wall Street lackey and a megalomaniac billionaire are the front runners only drives home the bitter truth that American System is in reality not that far of from being a play ground of rich and landed.

That's all from my side!

 

[nang2]

Democracy is dead! Long live the democracy!!

Well to be fair to the Chinas of the world - even in the best of democracy it is about illusion of a choice. Real choices which matter are curiously hard to come by.

Look at campaign finance and the implications of citizens united. It was a blow to the fundamentals of US democratic system. Now the wealthy and special interests are free to buy the Presidency and we can just applaud! The fact that a Wall Street lackey and a megalomaniac billionaire are the front runners only drives home the bitter truth that American System is in reality not that far of from being a play ground of rich and landed.

That's all from my side!

US democracy ain't the only democratic system. It is of course insane to take 2 years for presidential campaign. Last year, Canada had a general election, which was the longest in the history. The campaign season lasted 14 weeks! Conservative wanted long season to their own advantage and it got backfired. Hahaha.

 

[Aepsilons]

Absolutely! And what did that image of China look like BEFORE the free market reforms of Deng Xiaoping? China has transformed herself in just a few decades BECAUSE she dropped the "dead end" of state socialism/Marxism and adopted capitalist values and norms.

I do not refute the contributions of market economy, my friend. What I am conjecturing is how particularly fluent the Chinese have been , truly, efficacious at that, in streamlining various political processes to suit their national mandate; the use of the underlying confucian meritocracy (which is the foundation), then consigning socialist thought, communist doctrine (which helped in the national unification struggle), then adopting selective capitalism , then slowly integrated reform oriented praxis such as development of corporate law reform, environmental law reform, anti corruption reform, legislative authority reform, constitutional review reform. What is clear is that WITHIN CHINA is the same basic fundamental Bill of Rights that is seen in the United States Constitution and the same spirit of Fraternite, Egalite, Fraternite that had been espoused upon by Voltaire, Locke and other key European enlightenment thinkers during the genesis of Universality of Human Rights. So we can summarize current Chinese political machination and political economic development as being totally organic and adaptive. She is the antithesis of stasis, actually.

Regards.

 

[gambit]

Now the wealthy and special interests are free to buy the Presidency and we can just applaud! The fact that a Wall Street lackey and a megalomaniac billionaire are the front runners only drives home the bitter truth that American System is in reality not that far of from being a play ground of rich and landed.

So Trump and Clinton were handing out Ben Franklins at their rallies ? News to me.

 

[Aepsilons]

Democracy is dead! Long live the democracy!!

Well to be fair to the Chinas of the world - even in the best of democracy it is about illusion of a choice. Real choices which matter are curiously hard to come by.

Look at campaign finance and the implications of citizens united. It was a blow to the fundamentals of US democratic system. Now the wealthy and special interests are free to buy the Presidency and we can just applaud! The fact that a Wall Street lackey and a megalomaniac billionaire are the front runners only drives home the bitter truth that American System is in reality not that far of from being a play ground of rich and landed.

That's all from my side!

There are various 'forms' of democracy, however. The question is which form is best? Perhaps we can delve into the various forms of democracy and identify strengths, weaknesses, and potentialities? He he he, provided if folks want to that is. I don't mind.

The fact that a Wall Street lackey and a megalomaniac billionaire are the front runners only drives home the bitter truth that American System is in reality not that far of from being a play ground of rich and landed.

LOL, then go support 'We the People' ! Ben, um, Carson? But a las he only captured less than 8% of the votes in SC, tho.

Oi Vey.....

 

[Piper]

So Trump and Clinton were handing out Ben Franklins at their rallies ? News to me.

My friend now don't be so literal! We know how the elections work - it is through endorsements, media buys, logistics and infrastructure on ground etc. All of which requires Ben Franklins!

Welcome to the Circus!

 

[gambit]

There are various 'forms' of democracy,...

Not true. Unless with the word 'forms' you mean 'methods' on applying democratic principles.

Governance is necessary in every community, from the small family unit to a country, and the government is the instrument of that necessity.

At the highest level, the idea of democracy is to create/allow the widest possible field of political participation in governance and government. But the larger this field or allowance, the greater the diversity of political biases, then compound this problem with the problem that with diversity comes uneven level of memberships among the many political biases.

How to allow fair representation of these diverse political biases without making the government unwieldy and governance approaching impossible ? That is the question and the problem. There are no other 'forms' of democracy, only other methods of execution of democratic principles.

My friend now don't be so literal! We know how the elections work - it is through endorsements, media buys, logistics and infrastructure on ground etc. All of which requires Ben Franklins!

Welcome to the Circus!

Better than bullets, right ?

 

[Aepsilons]

http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/POLSC221-4.1.5-TypesDem-FINAL.pdf

A great read, folks.

 

[gambit]

http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/POLSC221-4.1.5-TypesDem-FINAL.pdf

A great read, folks.

Seen it before. The Summary section is exactly what I said.

 

[Piper]

Better than bullets, right ?

Frankly I am disillusioned. I know despite all the faults endemic to our system we still have it better than most but there is so much more which needs to be done. I don't like it at all that our system is being subverted from within by special interests. What are common sense issues like Gun Control are being exploited by demagogues.

We hardly have a centre anymore. It is all extreme right vs left.

 

[gambit]

Frankly I am disillusioned. I know despite all the faults endemic to our system we still have it better than most but there is so much more which needs to be done.

This is where and how you and I are different.

While -- like you -- I am not completely satisfied with our current system, neither am I so disillusioned that cynicism is the default attitude. If anything, given how much I know of how other governments rule their peoples, I see cynicism of the American system to be egotistical, vain, and mostly pretentious. It contribute nothing to even explore on how to repair/improve the system. I have in tech all my life and nothing annoys me more than someone in a meeting does nothing but complain that this process is flawed or that equipment does not work and offers no ideas, let alone solutions.

I don't like it at all that our system is being subverted from within by special interests.

You mean YOU are not a 'special interest' in your own right ?

What are common sense issues like Gun Control are being exploited by demagogues.

It depends on WHAT you want in a volatile issue like guns and the 2nd Amendment. Anyone with an opinion about an issue believes his/her stance is 'common sense' and others are crazy.

We hardly have a centre anymore. It is all extreme right vs left.

Who forces them into those extremes ?

 

[jammersat]

lol i just realized what the chinese computer making tera flops mean lol

@C130