Delhi & Tokyo may ink pact for India’s first Bullet Train during Shinzo Abe’s visit

[Rangila]

Well, that was what your post suggested. You can check the response of another poster as well. He got the same impression.

@rubyjackass

I know what I meant more than any other.
Its like between the tea & coffee I prefer the later.
But I hear otherwise from someone.
That is not the case.

 

[Archie]

I think Delhi Mumbai route would have been a better choice coz Economics dictates that the connectivity between the 2 power centers of the economy should be the best
Ahemdabad is the Sixth most important Economic center after
Delhi-NCR
Mumbai
Bangalore
Chennai
Hyderabad

 

[anant_s]

Then the wear and tear of the tracks will have significant maintenance cost and safety implication.

There are procedures in place. Please also remember that wear and tear on track is not just a singular function of speed. More times worn out or unbalanced wheels along with sudden braking causes more damage.
Owing to high speed, HSTs are designed with significantly reduced unbalanced mass, resulting in not just smooth ride, but lesser maintenance too.

 

[rubyjackass]

That is rubbish.

I am asking the Japanese to build a white elephant who's feasibility is not certain. Not INDIA. You are not required to be in a depression to inject money into the economy to grow the GDP How do you think China managed growth ?

Japanese won't build it. See the news report, they are limited to selling stuff and consultancy. The builder who takes up the project will be in waters soon unless the government does them some real good out of the line favors. The liability will be with GoI either directly or through guarantees. Essentially it is taxpayers money.

You are right. You are not required to be in depression to inject money into economy. But when you are not in depression, by definition, there will be places that need money injection or will give better returns on money injection and there are better priorities to manage.

China's growth is a completely different story. They are a huge huge export economy.

How is this not a public infra project ? Its like an Airport. Does it benefit ALL ?

If its not BOT then where is the problem ? what is your objection ? Even if it is a BOT, how will that be a problem ? Its Win Win one way and a Win Lose the other way. Either case WE win.

I agreed that it is a public infra project. Nobody with a sound mind will accept a proposal to build and operate this white elephant by himself/herself. I have no problem if someone does. But that someone will demand some serious concessions from the government. That is a problem because it drains our finances besides the loan repayments that are already present.


Keep in mind, I did not even count the operating expense for the project. Even the recovery of finances via tickets is a distant dream.

 

[Jai Bharat]

I hope the project success. But the odds seems stacked against it. It will be a burden for common taxpayer to benefit high spend customers. Whether GoI will be able to give back 15bil$ over 50 years is not the issue, the cost benefit calculation is. India would be forced to pull out the money off its budget anyway later.

Common taxpayers are not paying anything for this. It is LOAN, with practically no interest rates at .1%, it is a joke. This is easy money designed to permanently give Japan an edge in future Indian infrastructure projects and muscle out the Chinese, both of which are definitely good for India and Japan. Comparatively, Pakistan is desperate for foreign loans and offering +7% interest rates Analysis: Eurobond attracts controversy - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Pakistan offered 10-year paper at an 8.25pc yield, and received bids worth $1 billion. The last Eurobond was issued in April 2014, when the government also targeted to raise $500 million, but attracted bids worth almost $6 billion and ended up raising $2bn from the exercise. The yield then was also 8.25pc.

These terms are unbelievably favourable, absolutely no reason not to take it unless your a luddite. People used the same arguments you did when it came down to telecom, metro rails, etc.

 

[sankranti]

Japanese won't build it. See the news report, they are limited to selling stuff and consultancy. The builder who takes up the project will be in waters soon unless the government does them some real good out of the line favors. The liability will be with GoI either directly or through guarantees. Essentially it is taxpayers money.

You are right. You are not required to be in depression to inject money into economy. But when you are not in depression, by definition, there will be places that need money injection or will give better returns on money injection and there are better priorities to manage.

China's growth is a completely different story. They are a huge huge export economy.

The Japs will FINANCE the whole thing. That is what "Building it" means. Nobody expects the Japs to physically come here and do manual labour and lay tracks or break rocks.

The GoI or Indian Railway obviously has to underwrite the whole think and has to assume some project responsibility. That is how business is done. That is how ANYTHING gets built.

Its tax payers money ONLY if political interference damages the Project. There will be counter guarantees from the Japs too. Guarantees are never one way.

I agreed that it is a public infra project. Nobody with a sound mind will accept a proposal to build and operate this white elephant by himself/herself. I have no problem if someone does. But that someone will demand some serious concessions from the government. That is a problem because it drains our finances besides the loan repayments that are already present.

Keep in mind, I did not even count the operating expense for the project. Even the recovery of finances via tickets is a distant dream.

That is wild speculation and need not to be answered. you are free to assume anything, its a free country.

The burden of recovery of the finance is with the Japs, not India. they are free to withdraw from the deal if they are not sure.

They need it as much as us. That is why its such a win win. We will know for sure 50 years from now

 

[surya kiran]

You are living in a 21st century and talking about petty things. Do not undermine Japanese people and their technology.

If people can make the almost impossible engineering wonder a la Panama Canal, you are concerned about crumbs (landslide)

BTW, everything will be done when the feasibility study is affirmative. That being the case, Western Ghats have no meaning, which can be surmounted. Pune Mumbai Highway is functional as it was. As for the periodic mishaps, they happen everywhere. Not to say that people should not venture.

I hope, you understand there is a cost to technology. The Mumbai Pune route was cancelled, in the first phase, because of costs. Costs involved with laying down the line between Mumbai and Pune. Not technology. By the way, technology also involves costs. If you want to lay down a line, you also need to understand geographical conditions. I asked you a question. Have you used the Expressway or traveled between Mumbai and Pune during the monsoon. If you had, you would have known that those periodic mishaps shut down the expressway. Laying down infrastructure to protect against this, will lead to increase in costs. Not technology.

If you want to drill, costs become expensive. If you are unable to understand this simple concept please do not quote me.

 

[egodoc222]

Modi of course will prefer his native place first.
And then Delhi stinks of Kejriwal lately (for BJP)
Had it been Kiran Bedi, things would have been pretty different.

Lol...then khujliwal and his fellow aaptards would take a broom and do dharna in front it!!!

 

[rubyjackass]

Common taxpayers are not paying anything for this. It is LOAN, with practically no interest rates at .1%, it is a joke. This is easy money designed to permanently give Japan an edge in future Indian infrastructure projects and muscle out the Chinese, both of which are definitely good for India and Japan. Comparatively, Pakistan is desperate for foreign loans and offering +7% interest rates Analysis: Eurobond attracts controversy - Pakistan - DAWN.COM



These terms are unbelievably favourable, absolutely no reason not to take it unless your a luddite. People used the same arguments you did when it came down to telecom, metro rails, etc.

You seriously want to compare Indian economy with Pakistan now?

Read my posts above for why not or why to be careful in assessing it.

 

[oproh]

India and bullet train in the same sentence seems wrong. A poor and cheap country like india doesn't deserve to have a bullet train.

 

[rubyjackass]

The Japs will FINANCE the whole thing. That is what "Building it" means. Nobody expects the Japs to physically come here and do manual labour and lay tracks or break rocks.

The GoI or Indian Railway obviously has to underwrite the whole think and has to assume some project responsibility. That is how business is done. That is how ANYTHING gets built.

Its tax payers money ONLY if political interference damages the Project. There will be counter guarantees from the Japs too. Guarantees are never one way.



That is wild speculation and need not to be answered. you are free to assume anything, its a free country.

The burden of recovery of the finance is with the Japs, not India. they are free to withdraw from the deal if they are not sure.

They need it as much as us. That is why its such a win win. We will know for sure 50 years from now

It is not speculation. Simple arithmetic and logic. No profit seeking entity will build and run the project by itself.

GoI will be guarantor for the finances. That much is clear. The Japanese companies will only be responsible for the goods and technology they deliver for the project, not for the execution of the project as a whole.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Nope. Air travel will alwayr than super fast trains. Cheaper, shorter, safer and more comfortable.

Aviation market in India is going to be one of the largest in the world.

It is going to be, but not in the short term.As I said there will not be a proportional growth in number of seats offered by airlines as the affordability of middle class increases.

As said, Likes of Indigo and Goair will be one of the biggest not only in India but in the world, but they are not gaining a fleet of 300 aircrafts in 5 years each. This will be where there will be a short window for profit, after it it's gona be like USA, passenger services will rapidly decline.
Good Evening.

 

[tsinga]

I think Delhi Mumbai route would have been a better choice coz Economics dictates that the connectivity between the 2 power centers of the economy should be the best
Ahemdabad is the Sixth most important Economic center after
Delhi-NCR
Mumbai
Bangalore
Chennai
Hyderabad

Delhi to Mumbai is roughly 1500 kms. Building an HSR get go for such a massive distance is not prudence.

In any case, HSR is most effective for short to mid range distances. Over large distances, air travel is preferred by those who can afford both.

This is in effect the building block of Delhi-Mumbai HSR.

Mumbai to Ahmedabad.

If this project turns out to be successful, the next phase will be
From Ahmedabad to Udaipur
Udaipur to Jaipur
Jaipur to Delhi.

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

Pay back after 50 years with 0.1 % interest ?

Its as good as free money. I will be dead in 50 years and India will be a 40 Trillion $ economy by then.

Payback will be peanuts. I fact there is a good chance that Indian currency is stronger than the US by then ...... so we will end up paying very little then.

Currency ?? Lets not predict that would be better !!
Difference B/w US and Rest of world (Accept some Industrialized countries like japan, Germany)
What US manufacture nobody can so at what price they sell everyone has to buy after all choice is pay what they demand or empty Hands So, There currency gained that does not make any difference whereas In case of India and china they manufacture what almost 100 other countries can do, so to win orders our price should be cheep. This is by low Labour rates or devalue our currency. If our Currency go higher we loose all exports in fact end up Importing everything which we can produce means Industrial disaster.

We do not know that. I would wait and watch. At the end of the day, if they are unable to provide the same at a competitive price, they will suffer.

The total air traffic between the two cities is round 1.6 lacs a month. Thats round 5,000 a day. Now this would never be more than 5% of overall traffic. So your 1 lac is not way off the mark. Also, last I heard the cost was to be around 2,800. So your 6000 is probably return, which is a very good deal.

1) The same used to be said for Delhi Metro in 2004.
2) Japs. First did Economic feasiblity study then they Invest.
3) If you get better facility everyone would like to pay more to avail like using metro instead of Bus.
4) Time is money. Time save money save.
5) Cost is fixed today, will remain same for whole Infra. life so with time it will become cheaper.

You are again missing the Forest for the Trees.

IT IS NOT OUR MONEY. Its Japanese Money.

We are NOT investing our own money. The Japanese are investing their Own money in India just to make sure we will buy their Trains.

This money will not be available for anything else.

But what it WILL do is FREE UP Money of the govt. for other areas of investment like mass public transport.

So the whole question of feasibility does not arise since ITS NOT OUR MONEY. What part of this do you not understand ?

The only worry should be will the Bullet Train become Feasible in 50 Years ? Cuz THAT is when we have to pay them back.

Now imagine the multiplier effect this money will have on the economy. The property prices, the autorikshwas walas who will benefit, the hotels who will benefit, the grocers who will benefit, the soap manufactures the hospitals and doctors etc.

It will kick start an entire economy around this investment. The feasibility of the Train itself become unimportant when you consider all these benefits.

Not to mention the expertise we will gain in Hi Tech and High speed train systems.

You seriously Need a Doctor

 

[Rangila]

I hope, you understand there is a cost to technology. The Mumbai Pune route was cancelled, in the first phase, because of costs. Costs involved with laying down the line between Mumbai and Pune. Not technology. By the way, technology also involves costs. If you want to lay down a line, you also need to understand geographical conditions. I asked you a question. Have you used the Expressway or traveled between Mumbai and Pune during the monsoon. If you had, you would have known that those periodic mishaps shut down the expressway. Laying down infrastructure to protect against this, will lead to increase in costs. Not technology.

If you want to drill, costs become expensive. If you are unable to understand this simple concept please do not quote me.

From higher cost, you came to Western Ghats and made them seem like culprit.
Still not able to translate these so called ghats responsible for being 4 times more expensive versus Mumbai Ahmadabad route.

Now to stupid theory of western Ghats:

IR knows better than you about these Ghats or the surrounding geology. Because they ply their trains day in day out.
Despite that IR came with the following national Diamond Quadrilateral:
Are they stupid or you know better than them?

On to stupid Western Ghat red herring again:

Japan is a renowned earthquake prone nation whose terrain is 68% mountainous, as is the case of Norway. Despite this natural handicap, Japan plies its Shinkansen (Japanese word for high speed trains) every day of the year, non stop from dusk to dawn, for which Japan is known as Mecca of high speed trains. But India/Pune can not, because it has Western Ghats

And your needle stuck in a groove on Western Ghats?

I understand that you want to push your point. But its futile against the facts, neither it is tenable.

Now skate around as before, but at your own peril.
I am done with you.
Do not engage with me further.
Because I have restrained you by ignoring you.
I do not hate lunatics, because its none of their fault to be one.
But intransigent people with tons of ego - Yes, I do willfully hate those people.

Lol...then khujliwal and his fellow aaptards would take a broom and do dharna in front it!!!

Right now its other way around though:

You have no case!