Featured Delhi Muslims fear they will never see justice for religious riot atrocities

[magra]

Why should BJP have Muslim MP's? Why community based representation needed in a secular India? Have any laws or policies of GoI discriminated against Muslims of this country?

For a successful democracy, all constituents should feel that they have a say in it. BJP says 'sabka saath, sabka vikas'. Being the single largest party by some distance, they can display 'sabka saath' by representing some proportion of Muslim MPs in parliament. Or is the 'party with a difference' tag only for name?
People who dont feel represented tend to adopt other less desirable means to get heard. Surely, we do not want that. Our enemies are sniffing a chance to attack us from within. All Indians need to be united for a possible two front war, not divided amongst ourselves.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Defending yourself when under attack is different from launching an attack on folks of opposite religion as a revenge.

no. i want peace. Islam doesnt advocate for neighbours of different faiths to go killing and raping each other in the middle of the night. but when muslims are under attack in India, Islam allows them (very much so) to defend themselves.

Ofcourse as a Pakistani, you would want that. How does a civil war help Indian muslim?

no. i only want muslims to fight back if they get attacked. there is no reason for muslims to start the fight when they are a minority. most of their ancestors rejected the concept of Pakistan and believed in the bullshit that Gandhi and Nehru spoke. time proved Jinnah was right.

Pakistan has forgotten Jinnah's ideals. He never wanted an 'Islamic' Pakistan but merely a muslim majority one. So its better if you dont say what he said. He would have turned in his grave seeing the state of Pakistan today.

none of your business. as i said, there are differing views on what he wanted. but we are all Pakistani one way or another, except you and all the other obsessed indian shits that are here.

I like it when you start abusing. It means that you have already lost the argument and can think of nothing else. Keep on showing your upbringing.

you never beat me in an argument. i see through your act. you are talking peace, but wanting war and infighting among Pakistanis, like every other indian shit on PDF. i will call you out on it, dont matter how much you suck up to the Mods. banning makes no difference here anyway. if indian trolls with accounts that are 10+ years old can remain here forever, so can i.

 

[Protest_again]

Hindu religion which has built in societal caste discrimination can't be intolerant LMAO. You Hindus need to stick to the post-modern San Francisco Yogi with a dozen sexual harassment charges game for a few more decades before you can start pretending Hindus are just a darker and even more unwashed version of hippies.

Lol. Worry about Islam.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Lol. Worry about Islam.

whats there to worry about? in islam no one is born a slave (muslim, hindu, christian, etc). in hinduism your own fellow hindus are born as slaves to other hindus.

 

[Protest_again]

For a successful democracy, all constituents should feel that they have a say in it. BJP says 'sabka saath, sabka vikas'. Being the single largest party by some distance, they can display 'sabka saath' by representing some proportion of Muslim MPs in parliament. Or is the 'party with a difference' tag only for name?
People who dont feel represented tend to adopt other less desirable means to get heard. Surely, we do not want that. Our enemies are sniffing a chance to attack us from within. All Indians need to be united for a possible two front war, not divided amongst ourselves.

I don't understand. Is BJP required to give representation to a community per constitution? Sabka Sath and Sabka Vikas is obvious. All the benefits of all schemes are entitled to every single citizen of this country. All laws passed by the parliament are non discriminatory other wise they wouldn't pass the judicial scrutiny. Why should anybody be worried about non representation of any community in a secular country? All BJP has done is to cleave out special privileges extended to one particular community in this country (extended for vote bank politics by congress). Do you think makers of our constitution quoted Quran while making laws? They quoted Bahgavatgita, Ramayana. Look up first publication of constitution, it had beautiful depiction of ramayana on the front page. People who don't learn from history, peril.

The word 'secularism' itself was added to constitution by Indira Khan's congress in 1976 not the original congress. Thank you.

India of today will not give in to blackmail. If one community feels alienated then they could try and get their own members into the house democratically on their own. BJP has no responsibility to do so. If they do take undemocratic means, the full state power will be used and all of India will be with the GOI..

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Defending yourself when under attack is different from launching an attack on folks of opposite religion as a revenge. Your solution to the issue is civil war in India. Ofcourse as a Pakistani, you would want that. How does a civil war help Indian muslim?


Muslims are termed as invaders by the same rabid nationalists against whom we are seeking advice. Becoming rich makes you a bigger target is an assumption. Are Bollywood Khans, industrialists like Azim Premji etc in bigger danger due to their wealth?


Pakistan has forgotten Jinnah's ideals. He never wanted an 'Islamic' Pakistan but merely a muslim majority one. So its better if you dont say what he said. He would have turned in his grave seeing the state of Pakistan today.

I like it when you start abusing. It means that you have already lost the argument and can think of nothing else. Keep on showing your upbringing.

Some of what you say is very sensible, refreshing to hear from an Indian Hindu even.

However, I dispute your remark that civil war isn't a solution for Indian Muslims. It is rapidly becoming the only solution. Modi has initiated a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Indian Muslims muster up a leader from somewhere, anywhere, then India is in trouble.

"I do not fear an army of lions led by a sheep. I fear an army of sheep led by a lion". Alexander of Macedon.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Some of what you say is very sensible, refreshing to hear from an Indian Hindu even.

However, I dispute your remark that civil war isn't a solution for Indian Muslims. It is rapidly becoming the only solution. Modi has initiated a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Indian Muslims muster up a leader from somewhere, anywhere, then India is in trouble.

"I do not fear an army of lions led by a sheep. I fear an army of sheep led by a lion". Alexander of Macedon.

nowhere even close to a civil war situation here.

 

[magra]

Like I said with Ram temple, it is our land. Hindu need not be apologetic to anyone to build a temple anywhere we want. It's not like Babri masjid is native to this land. The religion itself is from a invaders.

So you are going to force undo everything which happened in the past? Next you are going to forcibly do ghar-waapsi for all Indian muslims? We Indians had a chance to forget the past and start from scratch as Indians after independence. We need not have scratched past wounds. The tit-for-tat violence will never end this way.

And Lol about UAE, in 2020 they started building one Hindu temple, that too because of the clout that Hindu India garners in the world today. Had it been congress, we would still be kneeling before those Arabic overlords.

So you see, we can get a temple built through peaceful means. No need to engage in violence and land grab for one. Modi would makes us believe that we started progressing only from 2014. I am not saying Congress is any better, but we have been putting a lot more blame on them then they are responsible for. And anyways, the issue is not Congress but BJP. BJP is the one in power, so it should be more responsible in its behavior.

Regarding Disha Ravi Joseph, you are naive. Read about sedition law, it is not about sedition against country but against the ruling dispensation. It applies to anyone who tries to bring about demise of ruling dispensation through propaganda. GOI is absolutely in it's right to invoke sedition.

So you know the law better than the court who scolded GOI for slapping sedition charges on Disha and released her? Will you now hand over the anti-national certificate to that judge?

CAA is not discriminatory and sure hell doesn't go against of spirit of constitution. Indian constitution allows for selection of classes on the basis of equality. This law applies to religiously persecuted minorities of islamic countries bordering India. How can muslims be religiously persecuted in islamic countries? Also how can one ignore partition based on religion, when our mother land was torn apart by separatist ideology of one community. They parted then and are not welcome now. You seem misguided and borderline naive.

We could have worded it as 'religiously persecuted minorities of countries bordering India'. Naming a particular religion makes the law go against the spirit of constitution.
Ahmedis are one example. They consider themselves muslims but they are religiously persecuted in muslim Pakistan.
I am less worried about who can come in but more worried about the signals we are giving to our Indian muslims. CAA coupled with NRC (and shoddy implementation of NRC at that) means that any common Indian muslim can be termed 'non-Indian', whereas any common Indian non-muslim always have a second chance of coming back through CAA even if they fall through NRC. Can you imagine where this will lead us to. It will effectively make Indian muslims feel like 2nd class citizens. How can we become a superpower if we start an internal war against 15% of our own population?

Hindutva is about people and culture of this land. It includes all religions. But If your religion is going to say that you have more affinity to a distant land than your own and have more sympathy towards your religious compatriots of other lands than security of your own country, then you are absolutely anti national. India is going to rise as a Phoenix and show the world the true meaning of secularism. Hindutva is different to Hinduism.

I have an issue with the term 'Hindutva'. We can respect our culture very well by the term 'Indian' or 'Bhartiya' or 'Hindustani'. By forcing the term 'Hindutva' down the throat of non-Hindus, we are alienating them.
Imagine if you are an American Hindu (eg. Tulsi Gabbard). You may make regular pilgrimage to India to visit Hindu holy sites, does it make you less patriotic American? What can muslims do if their pilgrimage sites are in Saudi Arabia? It does not make them any lesser Indians. Abdul Hamid (1965 war), Azim Premji (Wipro chairman and leading philanthropist), Abdul Kalam are no lesser Indians.

 

[Protest_again]

So you are going to force undo everything which happened in the past? Next you are going to forcibly do ghar-waapsi for all Indian muslims? We Indians had a chance to forget the past and start from scratch as Indians after independence. We need not have scratched past wounds. The tit-for-tat violence will never end this way.


So you see, we can get a temple built through peaceful means. No need to engage in violence and land grab for one. Modi would makes us believe that we started progressing only from 2014. I am not saying Congress is any better, but we have been putting a lot more blame on them then they are responsible for. And anyways, the issue is not Congress but BJP. BJP is the one in power, so it should be more responsible in its behavior.


So you know the law better than the court who scolded GOI for slapping sedition charges on Disha and released her? Will you now hand over the anti-national certificate to that judge?


We could have worded it as 'religiously persecuted minorities of countries bordering India'. Naming a particular religion makes the law go against the spirit of constitution.
Ahmedis are one example. They consider themselves muslims but they are religiously persecuted in muslim Pakistan.
I am less worried about who can come in but more worried about the signals we are giving to our Indian muslims. CAA coupled with NRC (and shoddy implementation of NRC at that) means that any common Indian muslim can be termed 'non-Indian', whereas any common Indian non-muslim always have a second chance of coming back through CAA even if they fall through NRC. Can you imagine where this will lead us to. It will effectively make Indian muslims feel like 2nd class citizens. How can we become a superpower if we start an internal war against 15% of our own population?


I have an issue with the term 'Hindutva'. We can respect our culture very well by the term 'Indian' or 'Bhartiya' or 'Hindustani'. By forcing the term 'Hindutva' down the throat of non-Hindus, we are alienating them.
Imagine if you are an American Hindu (eg. Tulsi Gabbard). You may make regular pilgrimage to India to visit Hindu holy sites, does it make you less patriotic American? What can muslims do if their pilgrimage sites are in Saudi Arabia? It does not make them any lesser Indians. Abdul Hamid (1965 war), Azim Premji (Wipro chairman and leading philanthropist), Abdul Kalam are no lesser Indians.

You are pretty naive and I'll reply later with detail. Check this space.

But for now, I'll leave this for you to ponder.

What Ghar wapsi? Muslims can live as muslims, no one cares. But they wouldn't get special rights in this country like separate personal law board.

Hindus believe it to be Ram Janma Bhoomi. It is not Islamic land. It was a mosque built on temple ruins. Even if it is not so, supreme court ruled it as a Hindu land. I am not going to be apologetic even after supreme court ruling.

Court didn't acquit her. Disha Ravi Joseph was granted bail for now. Court didn't quash the case, lol. Let police work on the case.

Lol. CAA is not a discriminatory. It is subjudice for now. Let's see what the court says.

Lol. Obviously I don't mean all Muslims. Duh. There are muslims who give preference to their religion than to the country, they are anti national. You are naive if you don't know the difference. Abdul Kalam? BJP renamed Aurangazeb road to Abdul Kalam road in the honour of the patriot. What are you talking about? Who made Mohamad Arif Khan, governor of Kerala? We need nationalist Muslims who understand Hindutva. I don't understand the objection to Hindutava though. India is a land where Hindus (people beyond sindhu river) live. And that include all religions. I am not responsible for your or someone else naivety.

 

[hussain0216]

Delhi muslims should ask pakistan for a CAA likr law which can facilitate muslim immigration from India to pakistan ...

Pakistan is only for Pakistani citizens

If Indians hate each other then partition India

 

[magra]

no. i want peace. Islam doesnt advocate for neighbours of different faiths to go killing and raping each other in the middle of the night. but when muslims are under attack in India, Islam allows them (very much so) to defend themselves.

no. i only want muslims to fight back if they get attacked. there is no reason for muslims to start the fight when they are a minority. most of their ancestors rejected the concept of Pakistan and believed in the bullshit that Gandhi and Nehru spoke. time proved Jinnah was right.

I am repeating that defending when under attack is different from waking up the next day to go on revenge attack on other community (which will lead to innocents of other community dying). Only common folk die in these riots. The political leaders who push these folk foward remain unscathed.

Most of the cream of the subcontinent muslims migrated to Pakistan in 1947. What was left were disproportionately poorer muslims. They were mostly leaderless as their community leaders had packed up and left too. It is remarkable how over the years they have surpassed Pakistani muslims in most socio-economic indicators. I am not saying all is well but Pakistan is no better. May be Bangladeshis have a right to advice but not Pakistan.

none of your business. as i said, there are differing views on what he wanted. but we are all Pakistani one way or another, except you and all the other obsessed indian shits that are here.

you never beat me in an argument. i see through your act. you are talking peace, but wanting war and infighting among Pakistanis, like every other indian shit on PDF. i will call you out on it, dont matter how much you suck up to the Mods. banning makes no difference here anyway. if indian trolls with accounts that are 10+ years old can remain here forever, so can i.

go cry a river man. If all it takes for Pakistanis to fight among themselves if for someone to talk of peace, then I pity those Pakistanis.

 

[hussain0216]

nowhere even close to a civil war situation here.

The hatred within India is too much, the poison is everywhere

Indian Muslims were first but now even Sikhs and Christians are becoming agitated

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

go cry a river man.

you can do the same in indian forums. no need to be at PDF.

They were mostly leaderless as their community leaders had packed up and left too. It is remarkable how over the years they have surpassed Pakistani muslims in most socio-economic indicators. I am not saying all is well but Pakistan is no better.

they were leaderless because they believed in the hindu-muslim bhai bhai nonsense and rejected Pakistan. they ignored the RSS threat and now they are paying the price. Pakistanis are actually doing very well considering how many wars and imperialist neighbours we have had to deal with, and the future is looking bright. India on the other hand is descending into the hindu-muslim civil war situation that was predicted would happen one day when RSS gained enough power.

May be Bangladeshis have a right to advice but not Pakistan.

is that so? were you listening to Pakistan then when we were ahead of you a few decades back in GDP per capita? no, you werent. munafiq.

 

[magra]

I don't understand. Is BJP required to give representation to a community per constitution? Sabka Sath and Sabka Vikas is obvious. All the benefits of all schemes are entitled to every single citizen of this country. All laws passed by the parliament are non discriminatory other wise they wouldn't pass the judicial scrutiny. Why should anybody be worried about non representation of any community in a secular country? All BJP has done is to cleave out special privileges extended to one particular community in this country (extended for vote bank politics by congress). Do you think makers of our constitution quoted Quran while making laws? They quoted Bahgavatgita, Ramayana. Look up first publication of constitution, it had beautiful depiction of ramayana on the front page. People who don't learn from history, peril.

The word 'secularism' itself was added to constitution by Indira Khan's congress in 1976 not the original congress. Thank you.

India of today will not give in to blackmail. If one community feels alienated then they could try and get their own members into the house democratically on their own. BJP has no responsibility to do so. If they do take undemocratic means, the full state power will be used and all of India will be with the GOI..

BJP is not legally bound to give representation to a community. But not doing so makes muslims feel grossly under-represented in the body which makes laws for them. This is similar to a couple of centuries back when women did not have right to vote in UK and USA. They were told that their men would take care of them. Similarly, what you are saying is that Indian muslims need not worry, Indian hindus will take care of them.

We all know how laws are passed by majority. Some of them are hurriedly passed without even proper discussion. The whole 'farm law' fiasco could have been avoided had BJP allowed it to be properly discussed in parliament. Courts come in only when a law is blatantly un-constitutional. Many marginal cases avoid legal scrutiny.

So, as per you, India should not be 'secular'? You are saying as if adding 'secularism' to constitution is a mistake.
Muslims are not in majority in any region of India (barring J&K). In first past the post system of Indian elections, if Hindus are sufficiently polarized to act as one block, Muslim votes become irrelevant. This will take away the democratic tool they have. They will then lose confidence in Indian democracy and will tend to adapt other harmful ways to express their views.

You were born a Hindu in India by a dice rolled in the heavens. Just think if the dice had rolled differently and you were born as a Muslim in India instead. Think from their perspective too before making some of the statements you make. Today's muslims had no control over what Islamic invaders did centuries ago, or those that chose Pakistan 7 decades ago. We are harming ourselves by punishing our muslims for a crime they did not commit.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Aap tension na lo, we'll just genocide and eliminate the lot of them.. they'll be neither our problem nor yours, these unwanted people. Just let us do this genocide quietly, don't make noise, ok ?

deal ?

Pakistan Defence Forum. home to genocidal hindus and pakistan haters.