Defexpo 2012 aftermath – Self-propelled howitzers

[sancho]

Defexpo 2012 aftermath – Self-propelled howitzers

On this years Defexpo some interesting new JVs for self-propelled howitzers were presented, which might be proposals to the competition that was cancelled last year. I tried to collect the new specs and infos, to get a better idea of the howitzers and their differences. No conclusions or preferences is intended from my side, I just present the spece, you can make your own choice!

Denel made another try in the howitzer competitions, after their first attempt alone, their second with Rheinmetall, they now teamed up with TATA defence. They simply took their truck mounted T5-52 system and put it on a TATA 8x8 vehicle, while the same gun still could be offered as Bhim on a tracked version:

The next JV is between BEML and Konstrukta defence with their Zuzana howitzer. The Zuzana was offered and shortlisted in the earlier competition on a wheeled Tatra 8x8 vehicle, therefor BEML was a logical partner, since they produce this platform in various versions under licence too. They also offer a tracked version based on the Arjun:

...Part 2 following

 

[sancho]

L&T made a different approach, they teamed up with two different companies, for different howitzers. Their partner for the wheeled version is the Caesar from French manufacturer Nexter:

The tracked howitzer on the other side is the K9 Thunder from S. Korean manufacturer Samsung Techwin:

The Caesar is the lightest SPH in the competition and air transportable even in an C130J, the K9 is based on an IFV which makes is lighter than a dedicated MBT chassis like Arjun.


The last new JV comes from Ashok Leyland Defense and the German KMW with their Donar tracked howitzer This howitzer is a lightweight (31,5t, with addon amor up to 35t) version of the PZH 2000 and the interesting point here is, that it is fitted into a modul that can be used on different tracked or wheeled platforms, as a stationary gun or even as a naval gun for vessels:

6x6 or 8x8 Trucks

8x8 Boxer GTK

Lighter tracked vehicles

Heavier tracked vehicles like Leopard or Arjun MBTs

Artillery gun module

Naval vessels

...Part 3 following

 

[sancho]

Two howitzers that earlier were in the competition and are not mentioned yet are BAEs Archer and Soltams (now part of Elbit Systems) ATMOS howitzers. Both still seems to be on offer for IA, but without an Indian partner yet:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/163528-defexpo-2012-a-27.html#post2820011

India


Here is a comparison mainly of the gun specs, since most of them will be available on different platforms:

Please let me know if there are mistakes, or newer specs available. I have tried to find the most reliable source or to crosscheck it with different once.



Sources:

T5-52
Denel Land Systems | Artillery - T5-52

Tata Motors : Defence


Zuzana
155 mm SpGH ZUZANA 2 | KON?TRUKTA-Defence, a.s.

Beml India


K9
SAMSUNG TECHWIN

Cesar
NEXTER Group - CAESAR®

L&T has been issued industrial licenses for a wide range of products, after Government of Indias decision to open up Defence production to the private sector.


Donar
Krauss-Maffei Wegmann - DONAR

Produktinformation | KMW

Ashok Leyland Defence - One of the world's largest producers of military vehicles and advanced defence systems


Further sources:

Army Guide

Online defence security magazine industry military technology news exhibition world land forces*-*Army Recognition

MILITARY TODAY - Everything about modern warfare


Picture credits to Kunal Biswas

 

[holysaturn]

personally my choices
tracked artillery guns- L&T samsung k-9(reason L&T is the lead partner so more work for it)
wheeled artillery guns- beml slovak artillery(coz the slovaks are the only possible contenders if rheinmettal is blacklisted)
mounted gun system-tata denel t-5(coz t-5 is capable of 360 deg fire unlike ceasar in which the barrel is fixed at 12 o clock range 55km is higher than 42km of ceasar and at last tata will be th OEM coz denel is blacklisted).
towed guns-mix of mahindra-bae fh-77b and kalyani gun(coz they have proved to be a capable team in MPV,axe,the later for its ability in forgings).
m-46 upg- punj loyd or kalyani(both are proven designs unlike l&T nexter upg).

hope my choices are reasonable.

 

[T90TankGuy]

the next big ticket item has to be the big guns . so not surprising it was so prominently featured.

 

[holysaturn]

the next big ticket item has to be the big guns . so not surprising it was so prominently featured.

ya very exciting to see manufacturers bringing the newest technology to indian private and psu industries.

 

[saumyasupratik]

Smal correction: It should be T5-52 in the spreadsheet document instead of the T6-52.

 

[saumyasupratik]

Could you do one for Towed Howitzers as well?

As far as I know L&T/Nexter Trajan, Mahindra/BAE Systems FH77B05, Punj Lloyd/STKinetics FH-2000, Bharat Forge 155mm L52 Howitzer.

I wonder if Soltams would team up with an Indian Company to compete it's ATHOS.Any idea if GDLS Santa Barbara and Patria would be competing there 155/52 APU SBT and 155 K98 APU respectively?

 

[angeldemon_007]

I think Donar is the best option for India...

 

[sancho]

personally my choices
tracked artillery guns- L&T samsung k-9(reason L&T is the lead partner so more work for it)
wheeled artillery guns- beml slovak artillery(coz the slovaks are the only possible contenders if rheinmettal is blacklisted)
mounted gun system-tata denel t-5(coz t-5 is capable of 360 deg fire unlike ceasar in which the barrel is fixed at 12 o clock range 55km is higher than 42km of ceasar and at last tata will be th OEM coz denel is blacklisted).
towed guns-mix of mahindra-bae fh-77b and kalyani gun(coz they have proved to be a capable team in MPV,axe,the later for its ability in forgings).
m-46 upg- punj loyd or kalyani(both are proven designs unlike l&T nexter upg).

hope my choices are reasonable.

Why so many different howitzers and partners, instead of one for all?

Could you do one for Towed Howitzers as well?

As far as I know L&T/Nexter Trajan, Mahindra/BAE Systems FH77B05, Punj Lloyd/STKinetics FH-2000, Bharat Forge 155mm L52 Howitzer?

Since these JVs are new and partially new developments, the specs are not reliable to do it.

I think Donar is the best option for India...

At least from the specs it is clearly one of the best howitzers on offer and the fact that a you could transport and operate 2 x tracked Donar with a C17 and the same number of crew than a single Bhim, shows where its advantages lies.
However, at the moment the idea of placing a remote-controlled AGM 155mm howitzer with a helicopter on a mountain top, where no normal vehicle can be used and that could be operated by a minimum crew or even without, with the operater far from the gun itself, would be a great addition to our capabilities!

 

[Killswitch]

Thanks for the thread.

It seems the M777 will be the ultralight (order should be this year)

The OFB Upgraded Bofors will be towed (already ordered)

The Self propelled is wide open as you have shown.

Since BAE builds the M77 and Bofors guns, it makes sensae to me that India would work with them for the self propelled guns.


Time will tell.

 

[DrSomnath999]

welll i would go for M777 ultra light howtizer

& for wheeled howtizers go for BAE archer.

or elze if UPA government is feared of corruption/scam then plz develop ur own indigenious artillery But for god's sake induct it faster ,IA badly needs it

 

[Sergi]

Good to see all JVs but has GOI approached any such JV for arty ???
Or it will be same old story again buy from abroad and kill home products ???