What's new

Defense Official: Qaher 313 Home-Made Fighter Jet to Protect Persian Gulf

Status
Not open for further replies.
And what makes you think that, is it just your guess or is it based on some facts that you will like to share.
From what I know Iran is well advanced in all fields of sciences, and their military equipments are highly sophisticated; they produce frigates, submarines, ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, civilian airplanes, fighter airplanes, air defence systems, nuclear technology, nano-products, medicines, oil refineries and much more. So, while most of these products are for domestic use only, others like medicines and nano technologies for instance have a world wide benefit.

Iran Inflation Rate | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast

Man i am totally for the rights of iran and strong iran but how far can the iran go with inflation rate of 0ver 40 percent??
They must make peace with the west or they will go the zimbabwe way.Thats just a friendly suggestion and this world is ruled by west(for the time being atleast) and you just can't go against their interests,thats plain and simple
 
It's a subsonic piece of sh*t. any F102 would beat the sh*t out of it in dogfight

Personally, I'd prefer a super tucano. Makes the same speed with fuel efficiency :)

Do you produce any warplane, eventhough you have access to all the technologies that NATO might have? or do you?
Turkey produces state of the art corvettes, helicopters and tanks, all in JV with others, can you Imagine what Iran can produce without the sanctions and having the same access that you have to worldwide technologies?
Turkey can not match Iran's missile technology by far, And Iran also can produce modern and state of the art frigates fighting speed boats equipped with highly advanced missile systems, new helicopters and very secret and sophisticated tanks, this is just for a little comparison and masters the nuclear cycle, that Turkey does not.
So who should one believe , someone like you talking for the sake of talking or worst yet for hate reasons, or the Iranian defence minister and president, when they presented the Qader-313.
 
Iran Inflation Rate | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast

Man i am totally for the rights of iran and strong iran but how far can the iran go with inflation rate of 0ver 40 percent??
They must make peace with the west or they will go the zimbabwe way.Thats just a friendly suggestion and this world is ruled by west(for the time being atleast) and you just can't go against their interests,thats plain and simple

Sounds like you are confusing India with Iran; Iran does not need the west to advance in all fields, and it is proving it almost on a daily bases. With the billions of dollars India and others owes Iran, the inflation rate is just an imaginary one, they have 100s of billions of commercial deals worldwide, so that the west has to jeopardise and alienate its own allies to achieve anything with sanctions, South Korea and China and even Japan, Italy and Spain are asking for more Iranian oil, India tries Iraq now, it is good for India and for Iraq, but by betraying your reliable supplier Iran karma played a role too, your rusted old and leaking oil tanker ship polluted some parts of the Persian gulf and Iran has invited your own experts to investigate, so at the end, you will pay more for that oil than what you could have paid, and worst yet, the Indian economy is going down the drain and faces a real crisis, it is in all the news, and your satellite lunch have been postponed without date, meaning another failure, all this is happening to India while it is leaking west's arse, it is too bad for India that is going the Ethiopian way, that is plain and simpler.
 
Sounds like you are confusing India with Iran; Iran does not need the west to advance in all fields, and it is proving it almost on a daily bases. With the billions of dollars India and others owes Iran, the inflation rate is just an imaginary one, they have 100s of billions of commercial deals worldwide, so that the west has to jeopardise and alienate its own allies to achieve anything with sanctions, South Korea and China and even Japan, Italy and Spain are asking for more Iranian oil, India tries Iraq now, it is good for India and for Iraq, but by betraying your reliable supplier Iran karma played a role too, your rusted old and leaking oil tanker ship polluted some parts of the Persian gulf and Iran has invited your own experts to investigate, so at the end, you will pay more for that oil than what you could have paid, and worst yet, the Indian economy is going down the drain and faces a real crisis, it is in all the news, and your satellite lunch have been postponed without date, meaning another failure, all this is happening to India while it is leaking west's arse, it is too bad for India that is going the Ethiopian way, that is plain and simpler.

are you saying iran is more advanced than india............??!!if that is so i think u need to take ur daily dose of medication.And if u still insist then i have nothing to say
 
Pathetic jet, looks like a little toy.

Is this what the GOF statistics use to compile your military strength? :rolleyes:
 
are you saying iran is more advanced than india............??!!if that is so i think u need to take ur daily dose of medication.And if u still insist then i have nothing to say

What I say is that Iran is more efficient and yes more advanced in sciences than India which has access to eastern and western technologies, the secret help of the commonwealth and Israel.
facts are facts India has failed in most of it is projects on its own, meaning that it can not master sciences and technologies on its own; your best weapons are either Russian or some new western acquired ones, not Indian, so in that perspective yes Iran is much more advanced Than India, 'cause what India has, anyone else can have ,but what Iran has is Just Iranian, that gives a huge advantage in war, because the adversary doesn't know much about it.
I do not take medication, but I understand you comment coming from the number one heroin addicted nation on the planet.
 
Pathetic jet, looks like a little toy.

Is this what the GOF statistics use to compile your military strength? :rolleyes:

I think we need to call a spade a spade.Iran is turning out to be a propaganda machine and its not good

What I say is that Iran is more efficient and yes more advanced in sciences than India which has access to eastern and western technologies, the secret help of the commonwealth and Israel.
facts are facts India has failed in most of it is projects on its own, meaning that it can not master sciences and technologies on its own; your best weapons are either Russian or some new western acquired ones, not Indian, so in that perspective yes Iran is much more advanced Than India, 'cause what India has, anyone else can have ,but what Iran has is Just Iranian, that gives a huge advantage in war, because the adversary doesn't know much about it.
I do not take medication, but I understand you comment coming from the number one heroin addicted nation on the planet.

Name anything in which iran beats india.....................ANYTHING........and stop with ur bullshit rants
Iran is nowhere compared to india just like india is nowhere compared to china and china to usa.Its a fact of like,deal with it dude.Stop acting like an arrogant person and give me proof??
 
I think we need to call a spade a spade.Iran is turning out to be a propaganda machine and its not good



Name anything in which iran beats india.....................ANYTHING........and stop with ur bullshit rants
Iran is nowhere compared to india just like india is nowhere compared to china and china to usa.Its a fact of like,deal with it dude.Stop acting like an arrogant person and give me proof??

Just nano-technology to be brief.
How do you know, India to china, china to the US, I really think you should read quality papers, and you'll know that China is at lest in par with the US in technology matters, and it surpasses it in many other fields and in economy when you compare the national debts of the two countries, so do not try to put India anywhere near these guys, that shows your own arrogance that you are projecting.
India 's economy will die very soon, that is a projection and an answer for your arrogance from powers you can never ever dream of knowing.
Iran surpasses India in too many fields even though India has 15 times the population of Iran, so it has nothing to do with numbers, it is about the scientific papers that are published, and believe it or not Iran like the others won't allow all its scientific papers to be published for security or other reasons.
India is a third world country by any standard you choose, it relies on imports mostly and some good Samaritans, but that can not go for long. Indians talk about secularism and rant about other religions while themselves are majoritarily Hindus extremists, that is the apex of hypocrisy, but they have good hearts (without drugs of course), and that is why karma punishes them so badly when they play the wrong cards.
Hey, you submarine that sank, I hope it is not the nuclear one, because one day before that accident, I heard that the nuclear reactor of your new nuclear submarine went critical.
 
Do you produce any warplane, eventhough you have access to all the technologies that NATO might have? or do you?
NO but we produce high quality avionics and aircraft parts for various types of civilian and military aircraft. AND we built Hürkuş on our own which I think should beat sh.t out of that qaher with its tiny little engine in speed :) We also make sophisticated weapons, unlike theirs, aren't copies of I-hawk.

I'm not talking for hate reasons it's bullcrap I just despise their style of military equipment. About a couple of years ago I was saying that Iran should buy JF17s from Pakistan in huge amounts like 200 planes at a time. Pakistan could risk getting sanctioned for that kind of money and Pak-American relationships were kinda screwed.

An Iranian member came up and told me that planes were just toys, ballistic missiles generate more deterrent. What could you discuss with someone with this mindset? This is what makes Iran a rogue state, having absolutely no understanding of conventional warfare but only missiles and gorilla groups.

If they looked hard enough they could find an aircraft supplier. They didn't. Qaher (if produced) is a desperate measure, it's not a real warplane it has only civilian systems on board in the cockpit.
 
NO but we produce high quality avionics and aircraft parts for various types of civilian and military aircraft. AND we built Hürkuş on our own which I think should beat sh.t out of that qaher with its tiny little engine in speed :) We also make sophisticated weapons, unlike theirs, aren't copies of I-hawk.

I'm not talking for hate reasons it's bullcrap I just despise their style of military equipment. About a couple of years ago I was saying that Iran should buy JF17s from Pakistan in huge amounts like 200 planes at a time. Pakistan could risk getting sanctioned for that kind of money and Pak-American relationships were kinda screwed.

An Iranian member came up and told me that planes were just toys, ballistic missiles generate more deterrent. What could you discuss with someone with this mindset? This is what makes Iran a rogue state, having absolutely no understanding of conventional warfare but only missiles and gorilla groups.

If they looked hard enough they could find an aircraft supplier. They didn't. Qaher (if produced) is a desperate measure, it's not a real warplane it has only civilian systems on board in the cockpit.

I agree with you on all the Turkish products but, you have to be realistic about Iran.
Pakistan has to finish supplying its own Air force with 250 JF-17 first, which might take years before it can export any, otherwise, many nations that are waiting could have already bought the JF-17 from Pakistan, Egypt is looking for a JV with Pakistan to produce them locally, but it is still just talk.
So how can anyone expect a nation under sanctions and imminent threats, to wait that much, that has no logic to it.
Although it is true that their military products and systems lack aesthetics most of the time, I am pretty sure they are most efficient in warfare and have state of the art technologies incorporated into them.
Iran is also far from being a rogue state, it is called like that because it does not trust the West, so the West confused rug's state as Iran produces the most sophisticated silk rugs and carpets followed by Turkey and Afghanistan in that matter. Iran is a real democracy, a Muslim democracy, where anyone can chose to stay or leave freely.
Turkey is with NATO because it is useful to it, it makes a tampon zone against Russia on the eastern side of Europe, but it is not as useful to be part of the EU although its economy is much better than the majority of the EU members, most probably because of religion, since Poland with an ailing economy could join the EU witch should read CEU or Christian EU.

As for the Qaher-313 part of it, I am convinced that it is what the Iranian president and the defence minister have said it to be:
Apart from the engine that one can only speculate on, the avionics are not a problem, they have very sophisticated avionics in their produced Saeqa fighter plane, and there is a reason if they chose civilian components either for real or because they do not wish to show real internal systems.

Iranian government sources, the F-313 Qaher was designed and is indigenously produced in Iran by the Aviation Industries Organization (AIO), a division of the Ministry of Defense, and IRIAF. The project manager is Hassan Parvaneh.

The aircraft design is a canard configuration. It is described as a stealth fighter built with advanced materials, a very low radar signature and with low-altitude operations capability. It was also claimed that the Qaher can take off and land on short runways and has "easy maintenance". Qaher has a payload capacity of carrying two 2000 pound bombs, or greater number of smaller smart guided missiles, or at least 6 air-to-air missiles in the category of the PL-12.

It features a downward wingtip device which Flightglobal.com noted vaguely resembles the Boeing Bird of Prey prototype, but with a more faceted design similar to the 1970s-era Lockheed Have Blue that was developed into the now retired F-117 Nighthawk. Flight Global also said, "given the apparent small size of the aircraft and its single engine design, the Qaher 313 could be powered by reverse engineered variants of the General Electric J85 turbojet that Iran is known to have in its possession." Iran has General Electric J85s as well as a dozen other jet engines as a result of old Northrop F-5s and other American aircraft in its inventory from pre-1979 as well as newer engines from Russia and China. Iran also builds various turbo fan engines like the Toloue-4 and Toloue-5 for its UAVs. Iran claims they have designed the aircraft using CATIA three-dimensional interactive design software and tested it using simulation software including Gambit numerical grid generation software, fluent flow analysis and simulation software, CFD models and that they have additionally tested the aerodynamics using small sized jet and propeller flying models.

Two days after the unveiling ceremony, Mehr News Agency published the top ten features of the fighter jet project.

The aircraft was reportedly designed with extra stability and so does not need a fly-by-wire (FBW) system.

A prototype version of the Qaher-313 was portrayed to have test-flown at some point before the presentation. According to the head of the design team, two sub-sized models have been created and tested. One of the models uses a propeller engine while the other uses a small micro jet engine. The models were shown in a video clip (along with descriptions by the head of the design team) the same day. The "blurry video published by the Iranians purporting to show the Qaher 313 in flight seems to show not a manned fighter jet but a small radio-operated drone " which agrees with what the designers said about the videos at the Qaher-313 introduction ceremony.

On 10 February 2013, the Iranian Minister of Defense said the claims made by the foreign media about the project are inaccurate and that the engine used by the design had been successfully tested. He also confirmed that the aircraft had not yet been flown, but that taxi and flight tests will occur in the near future.

Qaher-313 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The top 10 technical characteristics of the F-313 fighter jet and some of the related data on its features and appearance:

1- Using Two inlets and inlet ducts make up the air induction system to deliver air to the engine. Due to an indirect angle of the engine to the air inlets, the radar reflectivity is reduced, and it makes angled design of inlet ducts to the surface to get radar energy wave, just like in F35.

2- The hot exhaust gas mixes with cold air through the inlet ducts, and gets cooler before it gets out of the exhaust system, to reduce heat effects on the surface of the aircraft.

3- Use of radar-absorbent materials in the body, to absorb wave energy and reduce radar reflection, for greater stealth effect of Qaher F-313 fighter.

4- Considering the estimated length and height of the aircraft is less than 16 and 4 meter, the two compartments with payload capacity of carrying two 2000 pound bombs, or greater number of smaller smart guided missiles, or at least 6 air-to-air missiles in the category of R-17 or PL-12.

5- Relatively large vertical tail surface has created favourable directional stability and with canted vertical tails create aerodynamic benefits as well as specific appropriate lateral manoeuvring capabilities.

6- The very large canopy gives a 360 degree visibility, which is essential for low altitude fly-by flights, especially helps ground mission attacks, and it is also very useful in close dog-fights.

7- The angled wings is perfect example of indigenous design for aircrafts, which gives a side profile like M, and similar to a W profile, is the best form to use in aircrafts.

8- Single-cycle landing gear is another proof that F-313 is a light weight aircraft, with minimum flying weight of 12 to 14 ton, and maximum flying weight of 20 ton.

9- There are 8 analogue displays in the cockpit, which shows Multi-Function Display (MFD) technology has more room to improve in F-313, Qaher fighter jet.

10- Considering F-313 normal steering lever, the control systems, with the wing movable surfaces, rudder, and vertical stabilizer are hydraulics, and not fly-by-wire (FBW) system, since many today’s aircraft use “side-steering lever” control.

The advance computer designing software (CATIA) were used for designing F-313, and aerodynamic analysis methods such as computational fluid dynamics (CFD) also were used, with the help of numerical grid generation software (GAMBIT), flow analysis software (FLUENT) and other design computation software, which shows a complete scientific work in various areas of indigenous scientific and technology was used for F-313.
 
I agree with you on all the Turkish products but, you have to be realistic about Iran.
Pakistan has to finish supplying its own Air force with 250 JF-17 first, which might take years before it can export any, otherwise, many nations that are waiting could have already bought the JF-17 from Pakistan, Egypt is looking for a JV with Pakistan to produce them locally, but it is still just talk.
Then Pakistan would have to improve their industrial infrastructure but they couldn't say no to that offer.
Although it is true that their military products and systems lack aesthetics most of the time, I am pretty sure they are most efficient in warfare and have state of the art technologies incorporated into them.
Unfortunately it's a false assumption, they don't just lack aesthetics they lack a military doctrine to tell them which unit does what. I can give you numerous examples, I've over a couple of thousands of posts and I've voiced my opinions about Iranian equipment in different sections of the forum.

Iran is also far from being a rogue state, it is called like that because it does not trust the West, so the West confused rug's state as Iran produces the most sophisticated silk rugs and carpets followed by Turkey and Afghanistan in that matter. Iran is a real democracy, a Muslim democracy, where anyone can chose to stay or leave freely.
Turkey is with NATO because it is useful to it, it makes a tampon zone against Russia on the eastern side of Europe, but it is not as useful to be part of the EU although its economy is much better than the majority of the EU members, most probably because of religion, since Poland with an ailing economy could join the EU witch should read CEU or Christian EU.
I don't give a damn about those, I just said following such an offensive procurement policy would be the choice of a rogue state. They don't have a proper air force to defend themselves but they constantly boast about their ballistic missiles and threaten the world. Heck, their chief of army staff even threatened Turkey after Syrian sh*tstorm. Which of course we lauged our arses off. Turkish Armed Forces is a complete war machine we don't just rely on air, land or sea. We are strong at all areas. Ballistic missiles were the only damn threat from Iran to Turkey and we've neutralized them the moment we ordered NATO PATRIOT systems to be deployed in Turkey. Now they are just pissed because they ain't got jack sh*t.

As for the Qaher-313 part of it, I am convinced that it is what the Iranian president and the defence minister have said it to be:
Apart from the engine that one can only speculate on, the avionics are not a problem, they have very sophisticated avionics in their produced Saeqa fighter plane, and there is a reason if they chose civilian components either for real or because they do not wish to show real internal systems.
It's bullzhit my friend :) Ahmedinejat should put up or shut up because that's what we see and what we see is a piece of shiet
Kahir313_Kokpit.png


The aircraft design is a canard configuration. It is described as a stealth fighter built with advanced materials, a very low radar signature and with low-altitude operations capability. It was also claimed that the Qaher can take off and land on short runways and has "easy maintenance". Qaher has a payload capacity of carrying two 2000 pound bombs, or greater number of smaller smart guided missiles, or at least 6 air-to-air missiles in the category of the PL-12.
I think it's also crap, with those tiny little air intakes and that tiny little engine it'd be surprising if it lifted itself to the air. I'm not sure if the stealth will work, the body has lots of flaws but most importantly, there isn't enough place to fit a radar in it's nose. It'll be flying blind. It's fvcking worse than an F5.

It features a downward wingtip device which Flightglobal.com noted vaguely resembles the Boeing Bird of Prey prototype, but with a more faceted design similar to the 1970s-era Lockheed Have Blue that was developed into the now retired F-117 Nighthawk. Flight Global also said, "given the apparent small size of the aircraft and its single engine design, the Qaher 313 could be powered by reverse engineered variants of the General Electric J85 turbojet that Iran is known to have in its possession."
So half the thrust of F5

Iran has General Electric J85s as well as a dozen other jet engines as a result of old Northrop F-5s and other American aircraft in its inventory from pre-1979 as well as newer engines from Russia and China. Iran also builds various turbo fan engines like the Toloue-4 and Toloue-5 for its UAVs. Iran claims they have designed the aircraft using CATIA three-dimensional interactive design software and tested it using simulation software including Gambit numerical grid generation software, fluent flow analysis and simulation software, CFD models and that they have additionally tested the aerodynamics using small sized jet and propeller flying models.
I'm familiar with Catia's interface, making a catia model is just the beginning of the design&development phase there are zillions of things that should be looked into and this is what they did so far:
269961_503.jpg

They'll have to spend near a decade to get this thing flying and by then Pakistan will be exporting JF17 to their 100th customer

I'd like to read and respond to the rest of your post (not really) but I don't have much time, will be meeting my girlfriend, bla bla... good day to you
 
Please read this article,

MY MESSAGE TO THE WEST CONCERNING IRAN’S F-313 “FIGHTER:” ARROGANCE CAN GET YOU KILLED
Posted on February 6, 2013 by aviationintel.com

I know people are waiting for me to post a big picture by picture analysis of Iran’s unveiled “F-313″ not-so-fighter fighter. I don’t think this is necessary, obviously the aircraft is questionable for many, many reasons. None-the-less I still want to give my conceptual analysis here as after having a few days to conduct some light research pertaining to the topic and letting the photos of the aircraft gestate, as usual, I have come to some conclusions that are both unique and I believe compelling, especially when compared with what you have probably read splattered elsewhere across the net.

Ok first off I want to highlight where Iran really hurt themselves on the PR game when it comes to the article they presented earlier this week. There are two particular points I want to highlight:

1.) By showing that ridiculous footage of the F-313 “flying” on a supposed test flight, which was clearly a model airplane as stated in the piece I posted just as the story broke. By doing so the Iranians looked like they were blatantly attempting to ruse their global “audience” in an alarmingly childish way. The identity of that radio controlled model has now been confirmed and a big thanks to Aviationinteler Nico for shooting over the evidence:
2.) By calling the aircraft that they put on display a “new fighter” they once again totally discredited whatever actual value showing off that machine to the world could have had. I mean why not say its the beginning of a long road-map of research and development that will end in Iran fielding a low observable indigenous fighter? How on earth could they look at that thing and say “boy is this gonna give America, Israel and their allies something to worry about?” To clarify, not because the aircraft clearly does not even come close to comparing to other “stealth” aircraft but because it is almost certainly not airworthy. I realize that Iran’s leadership, and especially the IRGC, has a grotesque flare for bravado, and overstatements, but the whole idea that this was a new game changing “fighter” was comical and I have to be honest, I had a good laugh too. But once I blocked out Iran’s soaring claims and looked at the bigger picture and the evidence at hand, a much more relevant possibility began to emerge.

So with this in mind it really leaves us with the question of what the heck is the F-313? I have a couple of ideas, both of these theories are much more important than just trying to figure out if what was displayed by the Iranians was an airworthy machine or not, and yes that too is a piece of the puzzle which I will address. As always I aim to provide a “full spectrum” analysis to my readers, so bear with me as I walk you through this.

Theory 1: The F-313 is an absolutely horrible attempt at mocking up a totally fake indigenous stealth fighter intended to give the US and Israel pause and to showcase Iran’s improving technological capabilities to the world. In other words it is just a video of an RC plane whizzing around and a fiberglass and wood shell with some commercially available avionics thrown in to make it look like maybe it could have a purpose. A propaganda campaign with wings, and a poor one at that because Iran’s claims clearly did not match the specimen on display.

Still the Iranians must have known that the world would immediately realize that this little aircraft is at best an idea that has never taken flight or at worst a fantastical model of what an insular engineer thinks a futuristic low observable jet should look like. I find it incredibly hard to believe that if Iran was simply after a propaganda stunt that they would not have come up with something far, far more menacing, in its potential capabilities and aesthetics. Iran does have a robust aerospace engineering academic corps, one that when paired with espionage has been highly effective at keeping incredibly complex foreign aircraft flying decades after anyone thought it possible. See the F-14, of which about two dozen are still in service in upgraded fashion some 30+ years after all support for them was embargoed. Additionally Iran does have the internet and they have access to an avalanche of open source information regarding stealth design. Just go pick up the Aerofax book on the F-22 for instance, every inch of that aircraft is covered in minute detail in it. So if your goal was to create an imposter stealth aircraft, all show and no go, your budget would not be an issue nor would your access to information on the aesthetics and particulars of existing stealthy designs to integrate into something visually new, yet technologically familiar.

So to sum it up I cannot, I will not, believe that this is simply a very poor attempt at spooking the US and Israel and “showcasing” Iranian blossoming ingenuity. The design is too poor, the finish is too shabby and the spotlight was too bright. If I am wrong than Iran’s leadership is so delusional, isolated and drunk on its own ego that there is no reason why they won’t take on the US in the Straits of Hormuz or attempt to irradiate Israel from the map without understanding that they will not live to tell their next generation about it. Such ignorance is incredibly hard to believe, especially for a state that has survived for decades under incredibly harsh circumstances.

So if the “F-313″ is not a total fake than what the hell is it as it is clearly not what they claim it is?:

Theory #2: The aircraft displayed as the F-313, although not a flyable aircraft (yet), is part of a new program to design and produce a light weight, low-cost and low observable indigenous fighter aircraft.

I believe that the aircraft displayed on that turntable is a mockup of a design that the Iranian aerospace sector, and possibly the IRGC, are moving forward with as a proof of concept technology demonstrator and eventually a real production aircraft. For decades, throughout the jet age really, the western aircraft manufacturers designed aircraft on paper and once a configuration was loosely locked into place the firm would build a full-scale mockup to work through engineering issues in scale and to market their design. Keep in mind these mock-ups were almost always smaller than the final production configuration, had strange oddities and imperfections and were built with non-aircraft grade materials to greatly save time and costs. Often these aircraft would look less than realistic, but still they were a worthwhile engineering and business endeavour.

Iran’s “F-313″ appears to be an engineering mockup. It is made out of what seems to be fiberglass (you can see it below the cockpit rim) of adequate workmanship. Almost all of the major subsystems are hidden from view, of particular note is the motor. The “pocket” surrounding the exhaust nozzle is not even finished with heat insulating materials, in other words it would melt. There appears to be no weapons bays of any kind. The landing gear’s ability to retract is not clear. The canopy is made out of basic moulded plexiglass which would have poor side view quality but decent front view quality. Additionally, there appears to be no latching system to even lock the canopy down. The cockpit is tiny, to the point it actually looks built for a small person. Now this is an interesting point, the ejection seat is actually scaled way down, the stick is equally short, and the instrument panel matches these characteristics. So it is not like the F-313 just has a cramped cockpit, it looks like it was designed FOR a smaller person. More on this later. Then you have the avionics, they look like some commercially available off the shelf basic EFIS components and some other standard cockpit interfaces and their final configuration still appears to be in flux.

Even with all these issues and imperfections the jet does have some things that lend itself to being an elaborate engineering mockup of decent quality. It has avionics, an ejection seat, a stick, intake covers and exhaust cover, a pitot tube, marker lights, articulating control surfaces (and yes “experts” the canards are partially articulated like on the SAAB JAS-37), a design that would potentially not require fly-by-wire flight control and many small details including subsystem vents and other minutia appear to be included as well. To me, the article displayed to the public clearly looks like a mockup not of a production fighter but of a proof of concept experimental testing aircraft, otherwise known as a “technology demonstrator.” This means that performance such as top speed, acceleration and high-g and angle of attack capability are not its key objectives, it is to test the aircraft’s low observability, stability and other primary concepts.

Fielding stripped down, sub-scale, technology demonstrators and proof of concept experimental prototypes is not the Iranian way of developing advanced combat aircraft folks, it is the American way! If you saw the Have Blue technology demonstrator (precursor to the YF-117) back in the late 1970s would you have believed it was a precursor to a viable weapon system? Even with its small size, “tiny cockpit,” featureless exterior, lack of a weapons bay, and tiny intakes and exhausts? Probably not!

Technology demonstrators are built as cheaply and as fast as possible. Thus they save money via decreasing weight, thrust, creature comforts, weaponization and especially performance. I laughed yesterday when I read three different site’s analysis stating that the F-313′s inlets are too small and the exhaust does not have an afterburner nozzle and the airspeed indicator only goes to 300 units (probably knots). Come on guys, use your deductive reasoning, you could have said the exact same things about Have blue! Do you really need massive air intakes and a huge nozzle to accommodate a single J-85? A motor we know the Iranians have reverse engineered and are producing? Go take a look at the size of an F-5A’s inlet and I think your position will change. With the J-85 in mind, maybe some of the clear attempts at saving weight for the technology demonstration phase had to do with the fact that they could only use a single 2,600lb class motor. An F-5′s empty weight is 10,000lbs. I doubt that this little composite jet (F-313) tips the scales over 6,000lbs. Thus a single J85 would probably serve fine for experimental testing. Back to the miniaturized cockpit, if you are cash, weight and thrust strapped and need to prove a design’s viability, building a cockpit for a small pilot can save you weight and money. In the US we would just throw more money at the problem and build a bigger, heavier more expensive jet and choose a larger motor to go along with it as we have many indigenous motor classes to choose from. In Iran they could very well say let’s just use a smaller pilot for the test program because we have to work within our indigenous capabilities and budget. It actually makes great sense and I doubt any discrimination lawsuits would be brought before the Supreme Leader for doing so!

have_blue_6.jpg


Not just Have Blue but all other known technology demonstrators had kit-built looks, relatively poor performance, and used often times commercially available components to lower cost. Just look at Boeing’s cool looking “Bird Of Prey,” which shares the drooped wingtip design with the F-313, or Northrop’s “Tacit Blue” BSAX experimental aircraft (make sure to read my special feature on Tacit Blue), both look like bad movie props not operational aircraft, yet they were some of the most successful experimental combat aircraft programs that we have ever been allowed to know about and both paved the way for a myriad of new operational technologies and combat aircraft designs. Keep in mind these are just the few technology demonstrators we know about, and there are likely dozens and dozens of similar quality that still remain top secret.

As for the remote-controlled scale F-313 featured in the Iranian press release as the actual aircraft that was featured in the Iranian “test flight” clip, I don’t think this model was built just for propaganda purposes. Iran does have serious budgetary and technical constraints that the US does not have. Designing an experimental aircraft on CAD software, then flying it as a model for preliminary aerodynamic validation is good science, especially considering that this jet clearly does not possess fly-by-wire subsystems. Heck, even America is doing this now in some cases instead of building full-sized, or even smaller scaled manned test articles. Check out the X-48 and the X-36 for goodness sake!

So with all this in mind, YES I do think the aircraft called the F-313 that Iran showed the world is a piece of a larger emerging aerospace program that could one day lead to an actual operational variant, although one that is larger, more robust and that can carry a sensible payload. Additionally, if the Iranians took the time to show this thing off I think that the actual flying prototype, which will look very similar to the conceptual mockup, is under construction, or about to fly, very soon. In fact even this mockup could possibly be modified to fly, although I highly doubt it. Still, in regards to the aircraft displayed, what is not to say that maybe its hokey canopy is just a stand-in until the real one is ready for installation as forming a continuous piece of high-grade pyrex is no easy task, and maybe the motor has simply not been installed, along with its related nozzle and heat shielding. Maybe the gear can retract, do any of the “experts” claim to have walked around the aircraft in person or possess highly detailed photos of the gear geometry? Once again I do not believe that this specimen is a flying machine, but I must stress once again that even American experimental technology demonstrators do not look like their production cousins, they look cheap and flimsy! Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE.

What would Iran even have to gain if the displayed aircraft did not even have a shred of truth to it? A flash in the pan news story that will only totally discredit them down the road when nothing more ever emerges? Also, just because folks can point out certain areas where the aircraft’s low observability is degraded via its design, that does not mean that Iran is trying to make an invisible aircraft! Use an ounce of damn creativity people! Iranians are asymmetric warriors, it is how they fight via necessity. Are you telling me that an aircraft that is cheap to produce, with a small radar, visible, and IR signature fielded in mass is not a threat? In many ways it is a larger threat than just spending gobs of money developing a jet that you will only end up being able to afford a few of, and that is if designing such a machine is even within the farthest reaches of your nation’s technological capabilities in the first place.

I see an aircraft like the F-313, once evolved, could be a serious quantitative wildcard to deal with. With such a strategy in mind there is no reason it would look like any high-end US, European, Russian or Chinese fighter product. This aircraft would not even need to carry a radar. It could fly very low at subsonic speeds and employ infra-red missiles during pop-up attacks. And if you call yourself an aerospace expert yet can honestly tell me that a low flying, sub 10k lb, composite jet with stealthy features is a massive radar target than please call the Navy and tell them they are fools to employ similar targets as aggressors against their ships and aircraft in training. Let’s not also rule out the potential for this jet to be produced in an unmanned fashion. In this format the F-313 could work as a reusable cruise missile or even a potent decoy. Its limited range would most likely make line of sight data-link problems that Iran faces a non issue. Lastly the F-313, if it continues on as an extremely lightweight fighter, could operate out of small airfield and/or dispersed operating sites, a feature that would be key in almost every external conflict Iran faces today.

I find it very frustrating that even after a couple of days nobody can use their imagination or put themselves in Iran’s shoes when it comes to what they can do to make a difference during protracted air combat with their limited resources, both monetary and technological. Are we so spoiled in the western world that we cannot see the potential of an adaptive threat emerging right in front of our eyes? Sure, it was a big laugh when Iran claimed that they are going to unveil a new indigenous “stealth fighter” for the world to see. We are so used to seeing modern marvels, almost works of art, such as the substantial F-22 and J-20 emerge to oohs and awes that we cannot recognize a totally different approach as a valid capability and a strategic necessity of a potential asymmetric foe? I don’t care how many F-22s, or Rafales you have, if you are confronted with dozens of dispersed small low-signature fighters that are hard to spot visually, on radar or even infra-red detection devices than you are in a world of hurt. You only carry so many missiles per aircraft per mission, and unlike the enemy, your country has valued a pilot’s life to the point that paying $300M for a single fighter is an acceptable investment. When you don’t have that type of money to spend but you still want to put up some kind of fight your options are usually exploiting a quantitative advantage over a qualitative one and building your weapons with attrition and/or expendability in mind. The F-313 may prove to be an aircraft tailor-made for such a strategy.

As for what you hear elsewhere in the press, the rampant charge to blow off the Iranian’s announcement, no matter how strange, as a clownish joke, sickens me. I have heard almost every “expert’s” verbatim opinion regarding if the exhibited aircraft can fly or not rather than evaluating the potential for such a design concept as whole. Asinine comments that get huge play such as Cyrus Amini of BBC News saying that the aircraft “looks like a cheap copy of the American F-22.” WHAT? So is every aircraft that is built with low observability and air to air operations in mind a cheap copy of the F-22? How does this thing have any relation to an F-22? Was an F-5 just a cheap copy of an F-4 too? Laughable and totally ignorant statement! Israeli aeronautics expert Tal Inbar said, “It’s not a plane, because that’s not how a real plane looks. Iran doesn’t have the ability to build planes. Plain and simple.” And China probably had no way of building a low observable fighter as well until they did. This is such superficial reporting and analysis that it is personally insulting. For some reason none of these folks could not even attempt to connect a few dots to at least put forth the possibility that this is an actual fighter aircraft program that will follow a similar pattern of development as America’s cutting edge air combat technologies? Did these “experts” really expect to see a ready for battle, fully developed stealth fighter sitting in that hanger from a country with a limited technological capabilities and monetary resources? Sure I get it, you can laugh at the big claims and the visual let down at first, but days later these people have not even critically evaluated the situation beyond stating “it’s not a real operational fighter.”

I just don’t know what more to say about this, I am just blown away that these folks have the platform they do. Their superficial commentary does a disservice to all those who look for answers from those who are supposedly in “the know” when it comes to military aviation matters. The Iranians are not as stupid as people think, they have a real vested interest in defending their nation and they are historically incredibly resourceful warriors. Why not at least move beyond their soaring claims and look at what could very well be? A bit of game theory, humility and knowledge of historical aircraft developmental trends can go a long, long way in accurately assessing the F-313′s theoretical potential.,,

Remember this piece of wise military advice: Arrogance can get you killed…


MY MESSAGE TO THE WEST CONCERNING IRAN’S F-313 “FIGHTER:” ARROGANCE CAN GET YOU KILLED | aviationintel

A new article on the net says the Qaher-313 has entered the production phase as of today the 21 of august 2013.

A few years ago the Iranians have coordinated all their forces air land and sea, they also have a very dense integrated air defence system.
Their relation with turkey is very good economics wise, and the patriots you had from NATO were for Syrian missiles mostly, Iran threatened to bomb the American bases if attacked not the population of the land where the bases are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom