Defence Secretary to head team for Beijing dialogue

[Communist]

India should learn from rest of the Globe. One one wants to share anything with China that is why they are smuggling/copying weapons from every where.

yeah yeah and thats why Australia refused to make a nuclear deal with india and accepted the Chinese proposal.

 

[Communist]

Any proof that India wanted to improve military bases by that ADB money. I wont mind Chinese Source.

whatever...

China kicked india and thats the point.

 

[grey boy 2]

Bring it on we will see you on the ground. This time we will fight on the streets of Beijing.

HaHa, wonderful sound track from a man with a sore A@S from the

1962. Please come for your "sweet revenge"

Fight on the street of Beijing ? with what ? world-war 1 rifle ?

Now time for you to learn history lesson of your shameful defeat.

After the 1962 war, the Indian Army commissioned Lieutenant General Henderson Brooks and Brigadier P S Bhagat to study the debacle. As is wont in India, their report was never made public and lies buried in the government archives. But some experts have managed to piece together the contents of the report. One such person is Neville Maxwell, who has studied the 1962 war in depth.

In the article that follows, Indians will be shocked to discover that, when China crushed India in 1962, the fault lay at India, or more specifically, at Jawaharlal Nehru and his clique's doorsteps. It was a hopelessly ill-prepared Indian Army that provoked China on orders emanating from Delhi, and paid the price for its misadventure in men, money and national humiliation.

When the Army's report into its debacle in the border war was completed in 1963, the Indian government had good reason to keep it Top Secret and give only the vaguest, and largely misleading, indications of its contents. At that time the government's effort, ultimately successful, to convince the political public that the Chinese, with a sudden 'unprovoked aggression,' had caught India unawares in a sort of Himalayan Pearl Harbor was in its early stages, and the Report's cool and detailed analysis, if made public, would have shown that to be self-exculpatory mendacity.

But a series of studies, beginning in the late 1960s and continuing into the 1990s, revealed to any serious enquirer the full story of how the Indian Army was ordered to challenge the Chinese military to a conflict it could only lose. So, by now, only bureaucratic inertia, combined with the natural fading of any public interest, can explain the continued non-publication -- the Report includes no surprises and its publication would be of little significance but for the fact that so many in India still cling to the soothing fantasy of a 1962 Chinese 'aggression.'

Origins of the border conflict

India, at the time of Independence, can be said to have faced no external threats. True, it was born into a relationship of permanent belligerency with its weaker Siamese twin, Pakistan, left by the British inseparably conjoined to India by the chronically enflamed member of Kashmir, vital to both new national organisms; but that may be seen as essentially an internal dispute, an untreatable complication left by the crude, cruel surgery of Partition.

In 1947, China, wracked by civil war, was in what appeared to be death throes and no conceivable threat to anyone. That changed with astonishing speed, however, and, by 1950, when the new-born People's Republic re-established in Tibet the central authority which had lapsed in 1911, the Indian government will have made its initial assessment of the possibility and potential of a threat from China, and found those to be minimal, if not non-existent.

First, there were geographic and topographical factors, the great mountain chains which lay between the two neighbours and appeared to make large-scale troop movements impractical (few could then see in the German V2 rocket the embryo of the ICBM). More important, the leadership of the Indian government -- which is to say, Jawaharlal Nehru -- had for years proclaimed that the unshakable friendship between India and China would be the key to both their futures, and therefore Asia's, even the world's.

The new leaders in Beijing were more chary, viewing India through their Marxist prism as a potentially hostile bourgeois state. But, in the Indian political perspective, war with China was deemed unthinkable and, through the 1950s, New Delhi's defence planning and expenditure expressed that confidence.

By the early 1950s, however, the Indian government, which is to say Nehru and his acolyte officials, had shaped and adopted a policy whose implementation would make armed conflict with China not only "thinkable" but inevitable.

From the first days of India's Independence, it was appreciated that the Sino-Indian borders had been left undefined by the departing British and that territorial disputes with China were part of India's inheritance. China's other neighbours faced similar problems and, over the succeeding decades of the century, almost all of those were to settle their borders satisfactorily through the normal process of diplomatic negotiation with Beijing.

The Nehru government decided upon the opposite approach. India would, through its own research, determine the appropriate alignments of the Sino-Indian borders, extend its administration to make those good on the ground and then refuse to negotiate the result. Barring the inconceivable -- that Beijing would allow India to impose China's borders unilaterally and annex territory at will -- Nehru's policy thus willed conflict without foreseeing it.

Through the 1950s, that policy generated friction along the borders and so bred and steadily increased distrust, growing into hostility, between the neighbours. By 1958, Beijing was urgently calling for a standstill agreement to prevent patrol clashes and negotiations to agree on boundary alignments. India refused any standstill agreement, since it would be an impediment to intended advances and insisted that there was nothing to negotiate, the Sino-Indian borders being already settled on the alignments claimed by India, through blind historical process. Then it began accusing China of committing 'aggression' by refusing to surrender to Indian claims.

From 1961, the Indian attempt to establish an armed presence in all the territory it claimed and then extrude the Chinese was being exerted by the Army and Beijing was warning that if India did not desist from its expansionist thrust, the Chinese forces would have to hit back. On October 12, 1962, Nehru proclaimed India's intention to drive the Chinese out of areas India claimed. That bravado had by then been forced upon him by public expectations which his charges of 'Chinese aggression' had aroused, but Beijing took it as in effect a declaration of war. The unfortunate Indian troops on the frontline, under orders to sweep superior Chinese forces out of their impregnable, dominating positions, instantly appreciated the implications: 'If Nehru had declared his intention to attack, then the Chinese were not going to wait to be attacked.'

On October 20, the Chinese launched a pre-emptive offensive all along the borders, overwhelming the feeble -- but, in this first instance, determined -- resistance of the Indian troops and advancing some distance in the eastern sector. On October 24, Beijing offered a ceasefire and Chinese withdrawal on the condition that India agree to open negotiations: Nehru refused the offer even before the text was officially received. Both sides built up over the next three weeks, and the Indians launched a local counterattack on November 15, arousing in India fresh expectations of total victory.

The Chinese then renewed their offensive. Now many units of the once crack Indian 4th Division dissolved into rout without giving battle and, by November 20, there was no organised Indian resistance anywhere in the disputed territories. On that day, Beijing announced a unilateral ceasefire and intention to withdraw its forces: Nehru, this time, tacitly accepted.

Naturally the Indian political public demanded to know what had brought about the shameful debacle suffered by their Army. On December 14, a new Army commander, Lieutenant General J N Chaudhuri, instituted an Operations Review for that purpose, assigning the task of enquiry to Lieutenant-General Henderson Brooks and Brigadier P S Bhagat.
rediff.com: rediff.com Special: Who was to blame for the 1962 war? Was it India or China who initiated the conflict?

 

[Communist]

Thank you grey, you were able to capture his statement that this time he will be fighting on the streets of Beijing.

Had I been able to capture the statement before his editing, I would have replied, Chinese will never give you the trouble to travel hundred of miles to reach Beijing, rather they would go to delhi to make your day.

 

[amarnath]

indians proved in 1962 that all they can do is to deceive and back stab who wants to co-exist with india peacefully.

So shameless, that they still come to China with a military team for negotiation. Chinese do not go to india for negotiation, its only shameless indians who come to China.

Kick their @r$ and send them back. Thats the treatment they deserve.

It has been happening for ages, And after 2007 and 2008 Agreement, We both had join excercise, and Yes We dont care even if China refuses it, We have been conducting war games with better military's in the world. Well Every country undergoes a precedure,a doctrine by which an emergency situation is dealt, by Issuing the one given by India , China was not on Red Alert.... We are a democratic country and the Media has the right to know what and who are the major challenges the country would face in case of war and How, even though the strategies would not be made public, The Policy will be out, We had threats from East and West so we Included both in this Stuff. And these talks have nothing to do With General kapoors statements.

 

[ambidex]

That fine with me, if it makes you happy. You can not prove it. I can understand.

China can influence Australia but the later has changed its stand many times Post ADB refusal. ADB was a trap to probe who is friend and who is not. Today India is capable of aiding any project any where in Sub continent.

Our whole conversation with your kind assertions has proved my point. This what we want to tell our politicians via these mediums that; As you has mentioned and i have stressed that China is not a friend of India.

People referring to Indian arrogance should adjudge by the facts that we are not going to make compromise on Chinese favour as others did as far as border disputes are concerned.
This is the main problem of arrogant China. Resolved border disputes of china were by product of simple facts that either china was too big for neighbours in dispute or china was too weak to bend and compromise.

Unfortunately In case to India(who is nor strong neither week), china and many others still suffering from a superiority complex and Snake Charmer syndrome that India is a backward and too fragile to be broken into pieces at any time. This can be seen in thousands of posts printed here by many members referring to Indian misfortunes and inherited poverty ect. ignoring the fact that we were always attacked from the time of human evolution due to our geography.

My clear message to everyone here is that India is not that ancient India now. Snake Charmer Syndrome is a disease and it needs treatment on priority.

 

[Communist]

It has been happening for ages, And after 2007 and 2008 Agreement, We both had join excercise, and Yes We dont care even if China refuses it, We have been conducting war games with better military's in the world. Well Every country undergoes a precedure,a doctrine by which an emergency situation is dealt, by Issuing the one given by India , China was not on Red Alert.... We are a democratic country and the Media has the right to know what and who are the major challenges the country would face in case of war and How, even though the strategies would not be made public, The Policy will be out, We had threats from East and West so we Included both in this Stuff. And these talks have nothing to do With General kapoors statements.

Man, let me tell you one thing.

Please do not get blinded by your national sentiments. Jingoist warmongers are jingoist warmongers, such persons do not have any nationality. A racist is a racist, racists do not belong to any nation.

Racist warmongers ke na koyi mazhab hota hain, na koyi mulk. Ye log society ke pollutions hain, ye log jahan par bhi jaye, bas society mein trouble create karte hain. Aur inke liye bekasur masumoki jane jate hain. Inlogoko pehle samjhana chahiye, samjhe toh thik hain, nehi samjhe toh mar dalna chahiye. Kiyunke ek boond imli ka ras ek bucket milk ko kharap kar deta hain.

If you support a racist and jingoist after being blinded by national fellow feeling, tomorrow you might be a victim of that arrogant racist person's jingoism.

 

[amarnath]

Man, let me tell you one thing.

Please do not get blinded by your national sentiments. Jingoist warmongers are jingoist warmongers, such persons do not have any nationality. A racist is a racist, racists do not belong to any nation.

Racist warmongers ke na koyi mazhab hota hain, na koyi mulk. Ye log society ke pollutions hain, ye log jahan par bhi jaye, bas society mein trouble create karte hain. Aur inke liye bekasur masumoki jane jate hain. Inlogoko pehle samjhana chahiye, samjhe toh thik hain, nehi samjhe toh mar dalna chahiye. Kiyunke ek boond imli ka ras ek bucket milk ko kharap kar deta hain.

If you support a racist and jingoist after being blinded by national fellow feeling, tomorrow you might be a victim of that arrogant racist person's jingoism.

Eh, Iam sorry If there was any racist comment in my Writing...

 

[ambidex]

HaHa, wonderful sound track from a man with a sore A@S from the

1962. Please come for your "sweet revenge"

Fight on the street of Beijing ? with what ? world-war 1 rifle ?

Now time for you to learn history lesson of your shameful defeat.

Ha ha shameful defeat.
Arunachal Pardesh is your sore A@s and the whole world know it. Talk about present and future. Guard your Beiging with home made jets those who can stop on mid air missions without warning.
My editing will not change the facts.
@ communist:
We do not need to march in to Beijing there will be billions from China itself to dance on the broken statute. Just wait and watch.

 

[ambidex]

Man, let me tell you one thing.

Racist warmongers ke na koyi mazhab hota hain, na koyi mulk. Ye log society ke pollutions hain, ye log jahan par bhi jaye, bas society mein trouble create karte hain. Aur inke liye bekasur masumoki jane jate hain. Inlogoko pehle samjhana chahiye, samjhe toh thik hain, nehi samjhe toh mar dalna chahiye. Kiyunke ek boond imli ka ras ek bucket milk ko kharap kar deta hain.

wha wha... pravachan from communist Babb Ji. You are getting very serious man. Chillax.

 

[Communist]

Eh, Iam sorry If there was any racist comment in my Writing...

I was not talking about you. I was talking about others who accidentally turn to be your fellow country men.

Why should you always blindly support a person who puts your country flag in his profile?

Will you support the crime of a criminal just because the criminal is from your country?

 

[amarnath]

I was not talking about you. I was talking about others who accidentally turn to be your fellow country men.

Why should you always blindly support a person who puts your country flag in his profile?

Will you support the crime of a criminal just because the criminal is from your country?

My dear buddy, I support the person as long as its true to me,And What makes you think that Your people are not the culprits? So an Argument is always welcome untill it gets personal ...

 

[grey boy 2]

Ha ha shameful defeat.
Arunachal Pardesh is your sore A@s and the whole world know it. Talk about present and future. Guard your Beiging with home made jets those who can stop on mid air missions without warning.
My editing will not change the facts.
@ communist:
We do not need to march in to Beijing there will be billions from China itself to dance on the broken statute. Just wait and watch.

But, my dear, why shooting BS without supporting yourself with proof

Please do not pollute the forum with your baseless open defecation.

Let me remind you inorder for a healthy debate, you need proof like

how i burst your lie about China back-stabbing India with "FACTS"

Look foward for a healthy debate with "FACTS" from you.

 

[Communist]

But, my dear, why shooting BS without supporting yourself with proof

Please do not pollute the forum with your baseless open defecation.

Let me remind you inorder for a healthy debate, you need proof like

how i burst your lie about China back-stabbing India with "FACTS"

Look foward for a healthy debate with "FACTS" from you.

You know grey, a small minority of indians still believe that it was Nehru's push forward policy under the guise of "Hindi Chini bhai bhai" (indians and Chinese are brothers) slogan, which caused the 1962 war between China and india. Nehru earlier had deceived China by making an agreement in Simla with unauthorized Dalai Lama and drawing the erroneous Mc Mohan line. Many Indians even protested Nehru's move, but they were all imprisoned in their own country. They were branded traitors, dammit!! What the hell!!!!!

The real enemy of india is indian military establishment itself. Alas, indians will never understand.

 

[Lankan Ranger]