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Decline of Islamic Science

Where does the Quran say that? Please quote chapter and verse.

Meanwhile, read this

At first I wasn't sure if you deserved a reply but then I thought you need to know the truth. I'm not an expert on Islam or Qur'an but here you go.

"A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur'an 36:37-38"


This is in a passage about night and day. Right after describing the change from day to night, it says that the sun runs on to a resting place for it (a few translations use instead, "appointed term", though in nearly all other verses where we find قرر as a participle they translate it as a place of settlement or an abode or resting place. There are also sahih hadith that mention the sun's daily cycle using the same Arabic word as in verse 36:38 to mean a resting place

"It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
Qur'an 36:40"


Some apologists try to explain away the Qur'anic description of the sun moving in an orbit as a reference to our sun orbiting the black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy every 225 million years. This is an Ad Hoc Hypothesis, of no relevance to human time scales, and nothing from the text implies that the sun is orbiting anything other than the earth. If the author had knowledge of the sun orbiting a black hole then it is conspicuous that he never mentions it explicitly nor in any way differentiates the sun's orbit from that of the moon.

"By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him;
Qur'an 91:1-2"



In the Qur'an, the moon and the sun orbit the earth together. There is no distinction made between the moon, which actually revolves around the earth, and the sun which only appears to revolve around the earth when in fact the suns movement through the sky is a product of the rotation of the earth around its axis.

The Qur'an assumes a flat earth which has physical places into which the sun sets and rises from. Since the earth is a rotating sphere, the sun does not set in any particular place and you can never travel to "the spot" where the sun sets nor a place where it rises; the sun appears to set or rise on the horizon no matter where you are on the planet. In these verses, the author propagates a popular legend from the 7th century of a man named Dhu'l-Qarnayn who visits the places where the sun sets and rises; here he finds the sun going down into a muddy spring and later rising on a tribe with no coverings.

"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86"


"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Qur'an 18:90"


So there you go. A few horrible scientific mistakes in a religious scripture. I can do the same with Bible and Indian religious scriptures.

All I'm saying is religion and science don't quite go together. They're anti each other. Religion is nothing but a most perverse form of politics, made by people to control the population.

Because, what I've quoted above hardly sounds like a word of God. I have nothing against spirituality but, I am just not a big fan of religions and before you start attacking me and calling me atheist. I'm not an atheist I do believe in Almighty but don't follow a religion.
 
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At first I wasn't sure if you deserved a reply but then I thought you need to know the truth. I'm not an expert on Islam or Qur'an but here you go.

"A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur'an 36:37-38"


This is in a passage about night and day. Right after describing the change from day to night, it says that the sun runs on to a resting place for it (a few translations use instead, "appointed term", though in nearly all other verses where we find قرر as a participle they translate it as a place of settlement or an abode or resting place. There are also sahih hadith that mention the sun's daily cycle using the same Arabic word as in verse 36:38 to mean a resting place

"It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
Qur'an 36:40"


Some apologists try to explain away the Qur'anic description of the sun moving in an orbit as a reference to our sun orbiting the black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy every 225 million years. This is an Ad Hoc Hypothesis, of no relevance to human time scales, and nothing from the text implies that the sun is orbiting anything other than the earth. If the author had knowledge of the sun orbiting a black hole then it is conspicuous that he never mentions it explicitly nor in any way differentiates the sun's orbit from that of the moon.

"By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him;
Qur'an 91:1-2"



In the Qur'an, the moon and the sun orbit the earth together. There is no distinction made between the moon, which actually revolves around the earth, and the sun which only appears to revolve around the earth when in fact the suns movement through the sky is a product of the rotation of the earth around its axis.

The Qur'an assumes a flat earth which has physical places into which the sun sets and rises from. Since the earth is a rotating sphere, the sun does not set in any particular place and you can never travel to "the spot" where the sun sets nor a place where it rises; the sun appears to set or rise on the horizon no matter where you are on the planet. In these verses, the author propagates a popular legend from the 7th century of a man named Dhu'l-Qarnayn who visits the places where the sun sets and rises; here he finds the sun going down into a muddy spring and later rising on a tribe with no coverings.

"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86"


"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Qur'an 18:90"


So there you go. A few horrible scientific mistakes in a religious scripture. I can do the same with Bible and Indian religious scriptures.

All I'm saying is religion and science don't quite go together. They're anti each other. Religion is nothing but a most perverse form of politics, made by people to control the population.

Because, what I've quoted above hardly sounds like a word of God. I have nothing against spirituality but, I am just not a big fan of religions and before you start attacking me and calling me atheist. I'm not an atheist I do believe in Almighty but don't follow a religion.
None of above implies that earth is flat and sun and moon are revolving (orbiting) vertically around it. Quran is not a book of Astrophysics or Astrology, but of theology, and is full of Arabic metamorphic jargon, taking which in their literal meaning would be mistake.

Besides, the topic of the thread is about the decline of Science in the Islamic world and the posters are posting everything except discussing the reasons of decline of science in the Islamic world. Some are hellbent on proving that no Science ever existed in the Islamic world (as if all those architectural marvels that inspire people to this day were work of aliens), others are engaged in pseudo-philosophical debate of why Universities like Harvard and MIT were not established in Mekkah or Madina? So the centers of religious learning MUST also have Universities that carry out research in Science and if they not, then those were in the age of intellectual darkness. I guess Jamia al-Azhar should listen to this for according to the able poster, Jamia al-Azhar is still living in the age of darkness for she does not offer courses in Science and Technology. Same should be said for Qum in Iran, Banaras in India, Vatican etc. I guess we should include some quotations of Einstein and other Nobel laureates in out daily prayers too, or better still in the Azan to ensure that we are not performing dark-age rituals.
 
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At first I wasn't sure if you deserved a reply but then I thought you need to know the truth. I'm not an expert on Islam or Qur'an but here you go.

"A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur'an 36:37-38"


This is in a passage about night and day. Right after describing the change from day to night, it says that the sun runs on to a resting place for it (a few translations use instead, "appointed term", though in nearly all other verses where we find قرر as a participle they translate it as a place of settlement or an abode or resting place. There are also sahih hadith that mention the sun's daily cycle using the same Arabic word as in verse 36:38 to mean a resting place

"It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
Qur'an 36:40"


Some apologists try to explain away the Qur'anic description of the sun moving in an orbit as a reference to our sun orbiting the black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy every 225 million years. This is an Ad Hoc Hypothesis, of no relevance to human time scales, and nothing from the text implies that the sun is orbiting anything other than the earth. If the author had knowledge of the sun orbiting a black hole then it is conspicuous that he never mentions it explicitly nor in any way differentiates the sun's orbit from that of the moon.

"By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him;
Qur'an 91:1-2"



In the Qur'an, the moon and the sun orbit the earth together. There is no distinction made between the moon, which actually revolves around the earth, and the sun which only appears to revolve around the earth when in fact the suns movement through the sky is a product of the rotation of the earth around its axis.

The Qur'an assumes a flat earth which has physical places into which the sun sets and rises from. Since the earth is a rotating sphere, the sun does not set in any particular place and you can never travel to "the spot" where the sun sets nor a place where it rises; the sun appears to set or rise on the horizon no matter where you are on the planet. In these verses, the author propagates a popular legend from the 7th century of a man named Dhu'l-Qarnayn who visits the places where the sun sets and rises; here he finds the sun going down into a muddy spring and later rising on a tribe with no coverings.

"Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86"


"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Qur'an 18:90"


So there you go. A few horrible scientific mistakes in a religious scripture. I can do the same with Bible and Indian religious scriptures.

All I'm saying is religion and science don't quite go together. They're anti each other. Religion is nothing but a most perverse form of politics, made by people to control the population.

Because, what I've quoted above hardly sounds like a word of God. I have nothing against spirituality but, I am just not a big fan of religions and before you start attacking me and calling me atheist. I'm not an atheist I do believe in Almighty but don't follow a religion.

You are misinterpreting what the Quran says. Read the link I sent you.

THE HELIO-CENTRIC SYSTEM
He created the heavens and the Earth with truth. He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient, each one running for a specified term. Is He not indeed the Almighty, the Endlessly Forgiving? ( Surat az-Zumar, 5)

In the above verse the movement of the Earth is described by the word “yukawwiru,” which comes from root verb “takwir,” meaning “to cover up a spherical body,” in the way that the rotation of the Earth gives rise to night and day, like the winding of a turban. In addition to the spherical shape of the Earth the word is also the most accurate expression of its movement around the Sun. Because of the Earth’s spherical shape and its movement around the Sun, the Sun always illuminates one side of the Earth while the other is in darkness. The side in shadow is shrouded by the darkness of night, to be replaced by the brightness of day when the Sun rises. The positions of the Sun and Earth are revealed as follows in Surah Ya Sin:

And the Sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. And We have decreed set phases for the Moon, until it ends up looking like an old palm spathe. It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon nor for the night to outstrip the day; each one is swimming in a sphere. (Surah Ya Sin, 38-40)

The movements of the Sun and Moon in verse 40 of Surah Ya Sin are described by the Arabic word "yasbahoona," meaning “flowing, passing or swimming.” This word refers to an action performed by someone on their own. Someone acting according to this verb continues to perform it alone, with no intervention from anyone else. The above verses may therefore be referring to the Sun’s independent movement in the universe, independent of any other celestial body. (Allah knows the truth.) It is impossible for us to see or follow the movement of the Sun with our own eyes. It is only possible to determine that movement using special technological equipment. As stated in verse 39 of Surah Ya Sin, in addition to rotating around its own axis once every 26 days, the Sun also moves through its own course.

The verse also reports that the Sun is not allowed to “overtake the Moon,” and the Qur’an thus states that the Sun and Moon do not revolve around the same body, as astronomers put it. At the same time, the verse makes it clear that there is no connection between the motion responsible for night and day and the movement of the Sun and Moon. (Allah knows the truth.)

Until the 16th century it was thought that the Earth was the center of the universe. This view is known as the “geo-centric model,” from the Greek words geo (Earth) andcentron (center). This belief was questioned by the famous astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus in 1543 in his book De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium (Of the Revolutions of Heavenly Spheres), in which he suggested that the Earth and the other planets revolve around the Sun. But as a result of observations using a telescope performed by Galileo Galilei in 1610, it was scientifically established that the Earth revolves around the Sun. Since it had hitherto been thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth, most scholars of the time rejected Copernicus’ theory. The famous astronomer Johannes Kepler's views setting out the movements of the planets confirmed the helio-centric model in the 16th and 17th centuries. In this model, whose name comes from the words Helios (Sun) and centron (center), the Sun is the center of the universe, rather than the Earth. Other heavenly bodies also revolve around the Sun. Yet this was all revealed 1400 years ago in the Qur’an.

By saying that the Earth was the center of the universe, the ancient Greek astronomer Ptolemy was responsible for the geo-centric idea of the universe that prevailed for hundreds of years. For that reason, at the time of the revelation of the Qur’an, nobody knew that the Earth-centered model that accounted for the formation of day and night in terms of the movement of the Sun was incorrect. On the contrary, all the stars and planets were regarded as revolving around the Earth. Despite these prevalent errors of the time, the Qur’an contains many expressions that agree with the scientific facts regarding day and night:

By the Sun and its morning brightness, and the moon when it follows it, and the day when it displays it, and the night when it conceals it (Surat ash-Shams, 1-4)

As set out in the above verse, day, the brightness of the Sun, is the result of the movement of the Earth. It is not the movement of the Sun that is responsible for night and day. In other words, the Sun is immobile in terms of night and day. The information in the Qur’an refutes the thesis that the Earth is fixed while the Sun revolves around it. The Qur’an is clearly descended from the presence of our Lord, He Who is unfettered by space and time. As science and technology advance more and more examples of the compatibility between the Qur’an and science are coming to light. This is set out in another verse from the Qur’an:

There is instruction in their stories for people of intelligence. This is not a narration which has been invented but confirmation of all that came before, a clarification of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for people who believe. (Surah Yusuf, 111)

Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an
 
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persecution of scientists in Baghdad and Busra
Was that systemetic?
Total annihilation of innovation from Makkah and Madina
Wahab emerged in 18th century, not when the Muslim world was at it's peak.
Munazaras of Mullahs on Quran Khaliq vs. Makhlooq
I do not know about it, looks like a subcontinental phenomenon.
What about my other questions in previous post?
Science is knowledge, gyan, ilm , etc.. , there is no islamic science or hindu science or christian science. If an apple drops towards earth, this will be accounted as it is, a Hindu won't see it rotating or a Muslim won't see it flying upwards, or christian won't see it static. But fools will debate, Allah did it, Bhagwan did it, God did it. Ignoring the essence of the Knowledge of the Phenomenon.
The thread is to talk about the reasons why Muslims stopped the pursuit of science. No one says that Islam brought those sciences.
or in other words "Decline of science in Islamic world".
 
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They are Indian Numericals, west got them from Arabs.

I'm not sure what you wrote there. The numerials Arabs use currently in the Middle-East are Hindi. It was spread by the Ottomans.

These NUMBERS (0,1,2,3,4...) used in the WEST are ARAB. The Western World abandoned the Roman numberials!

Is this what you were trying to say?
 
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Our?

Irfan Bhai jaan,

Could you quote a battle in Lahore, dilli, lucknow that documented "siege weapons" that were a "legendary"?

specific wars I mean!

Thank you
sicne we are talking Islam (not qualieifed by Indian, Arab, African, Iranian or Turkish) hence general reference as US ( in Ummah (thing)) Arabian Mangonel and Trebuchet
crusaders also faced flame throwers for the first time. just a general reference to military equipment which I said earlier, attracts most intelligent minds,
 
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None of above implies that earth is flat and sun and moon are revolving (orbiting) vertically around it. Quran is not a book of Astrophysics or Astrology, but of theology, and is full of Arabic metamorphic jargon, taking which in their literal meaning would be mistake.

Besides, the topic of the thread is about the decline of Science in the Islamic world and the posters are posting everything except discussing the reasons of decline of science in the Islamic world. Some are hellbent on proving that no Science ever existed in the Islamic world (as if all those architectural marvels that inspire people to this day were work of aliens), others are engaged in pseudo-philosophical debate of why Universities like Harvard and MIT were not established in Mekkah or Madina? So the centers of religious learning MUST also have Universities that carry out research in Science and if they not, then those were in the age of intellectual darkness. I guess Jamia al-Azhar should listen to this for according to the able poster, Jamia al-Azhar is still living in the age of darkness for she does not offer courses in Science and Technology. Same should be said for Qum in Iran, Banaras in India, Vatican etc. I guess we should include some quotations of Einstein and other Nobel laureates in out daily prayers too, or better still in the Azan to ensure that we are not performing dark-age rituals.
decline happened because People started to mix islam with science. Science works only when pure. any impurity be it islam, christian or vedic will only halt scientific progress.
 
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The thread is to talk about the reasons why Muslims stopped the pursuit of science. No one says that Islam brought those sciences.
or in other words "Decline of science in Islamic world".
True. That should have been the title. Though it is not stopped. But the almost absence of research is astounding. Also the predominance of Jews surprises me. Genetics or innate love for Science...I don't know. Wish we had more Jews in our country. :P
 
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..... I specifically stated that the Abassiya patronized the Mu'tazila. ...
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Bamxa bhai jaan

At the end of the day what we are doing is to get the old skeletons out of the graves (Garray Murday ukharna).

if you can find something useful there, great. Otherwise it is all just grave robbery at best.

Bhai jaan

you are not the first Pakistani to go dig graves in Iraq, and you will not be the last either. I am respectfully saying that you will not find any science in those graves. But the real science is in the West and has been there for so many centuries that it may now look like West's daughter in law (bahu).

Anyone now talking about Muslim science or Islamic science is fighting on the claim of solving quadratic equation or even less.

Hope you understand.

..... I specifically stated that the Abassiya patronized the Mu'tazila. ...
Right so Al Khawarizmi, Al Farghani, Al Kindi, Hunayn ibn Ishaq, Three Banu Musa brothers, Al Battani, how many is it so far,

There was a brief 50 or so years period bhai jaan if you want to dig out graves of "House of wisdom" during two Baghdadi kings.

That was no "Islamic science" it was the efforts of two kings. While the same time Abbasis delved into Mullahtic munazras like Quran khaliq ya Makhlooq.

Look at the big picture please.
 
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True. That should have been the title. Though it is not stopped. But the almost absence of research is astounding. Also the predominance of Jews surprises me. Genetics or innate love for Science...I don't know. Wish we had more Jews in our country. :P
Jews ate "man o salva" from heavens as per our belief. They always have been smarter. Remember the proverb "As rich as a Jew"
 
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1. Was that systemetic?

2. Wahab emerged in 18th century, not when the Muslim world was at it's peak.

3. I do not know about it, looks like a subcontinental phenomenon.
What about my other questions in previous post?

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1. Yes. Religious Mullahs systematically wiped out innovation. This is why established religious authorities do not mix well with scientists. Never have, never will.

2. Makka Madina the center of Islam were intellectually dark places loooooooooooooooong before Wahhab.

3. If you do not know the munazras (religious debates/fiascos) of Baghdad, then you are in the wrong thread.

peace

Jews ate "man o salva" from heavens as per our belief. They always have been smarter. Remember the proverb "As rich as a Jew"

Now you are delving into shallow side of intellectual depravity. Please do not.

you have good impression so far.

True. That should have been the title. Though it is not stopped. But the almost absence of research is astounding. Also the predominance of Jews surprises me. Genetics or innate love for Science...I don't know. Wish we had more Jews in our country. :P

Nah bhai jaan. Nah!
Wrong line of thinking. Very wrong.

Only European Jews fall in the group. Middle Eastern, Indian, African Jews are pretty much at the same level as their local non-jewish countrymen.

So no it is not genetic or religious.

European Jews developed unique survival methods and as a result they got into colleges / research institutions in much higher numbers.

Were their fellow Christian countrymen happy to see that?


Not really.

But European jews were hard working minority and thus did well in every field they got into.

Peace
 
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1. Yes. Religious Mullahs systematically wiped out innovation. This is why establish religious authorities do not mix well with scientists. Never have, never will.

2. Makka Madina the center of Islam were intellectually dark places loooooooooooooooong before Wahhab.

3. If you do not know the munazras (religious debates/fiascos) of Baghdad, then you are in the wrong thread.

peace



Now you are delving into shallow side of intellectual depravity. Please do not.

you have good impression so far.
I am not forcing my opinion that I am in the wrong thread or so, I admit if I am wrong and that is why I questioned instead of making a direct point. But whatever it is, your point of Mekkah and Mullahs is flawed because you think that the clergy should have contributed to science which could not be. Islam is not just Mekkah and Muslims are not just Mullahs that was my point. What is in correct about the Jews which I said? I do not find any thing wrong about it. I stated belief and a proverb that is all. Anyways I am going to some other thread.
 
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