What's new

Dear chinese and the other friends.

war does not happen in 10 years

All weapons will China's current outdated

maintenance costs weapons are too many
 
Buy more weapons is stupid

Without war, it's just a pile of scrap metal

Vietnam weapons purchases, only moderate

because Vietnam does not intend to attack other countries

Vietnam love peace, and respect for all other countries, but China will never love peace, because in history, they always attack other countries

They say, they want peace, but they come to our coast, they use force to destroy our probe

Their words and their work is different

Dear international friends, if we go to their shores, we destroy their probe, we say we want peace, would you think?
 
Wow!
The greatest "AQ character" from Lu Xun composer has been rebirth.
Everybody careful!

the A Qu JingShen is best for Vietnam atm, as you guys are so ignorant and brainwashed about your subjective history and your true international position, yeah barking like dogs to attract attentions``:)
 
Buy more weapons is stupid

Without war, it's just a pile of scrap metal

Vietnam weapons purchases, only moderate

because Vietnam does not intend to attack other countries

Vietnam love peace, and respect for all other countries, but China will never love peace, because in history, they always attack other countries

They say, they want peace, but they come to our coast, they use force to destroy our probe

Their words and their work is different

Dear international friends, if we go to their shores, we destroy their probe, we say we want peace, would you think?

lol another fine definition of A Qu JingSheng```first barking about you have Su30 and S-300 bla bla bla, then the reality tells you that they are toys in Vietnam army as vietcon has '0' experience or even knowledge of what is modern techs```and now whining about without war weapons are craps``lol

grow-up, dont know what else to describe your stupidity, the reality is vietnam has nothing to do with peace, it is the most aggrasive country in South Asia Pasific, as Vietnam has the most war for last 60 years among them``fact.

China offers peaceful solutions to deal with the border disput and proposed economic cooperations, your warmongering Vietcon turned every good gesture down.
 
the A Qu JingShen is best for Vietnam atm, as you guys are so ignorant and brainwashed about your subjective history and your true international position, yeah barking like dogs to attract attentions``:)

Hey you!

AQ is your Chinese, not our! So-called of AQu JingShen should have greatest value with you Chinese, not us. Understand, stupid troll?
 
Yeah, absolutely. By the way, check out your computer, mouse, keyboard, cellpone, telephone, television, DVD player... Throw them away at once, they are low quality Chinese trash. Do it.

Now, welcome to the stone age.
My laptop, cellphone, TV, ..... are not product of China. Only Laptop battery is "made in china" but it is not owned by the Chinese. In fact, China has cheap labor source for foreign factories. Chinese workers who are employed and paid :coffee:
 
My laptop, cellphone, TV, ..... are not product of China. Only Laptop battery is "made in china" but it is not owned by the Chinese. In fact, China has cheap labor source for foreign factories. Chinese workers who are employed and paid :coffee:

Your post clearly demonstrated a textbook example of an "illiterate" vietnamese idiot, work harder, get some more education instead of making a "fool" of out of yourselves, now take a look at whats mean by dirt "Cheap labour"? OK?

Chart.jpg

China Now Has Third Highest Labor Costs in Emerging Asia | China Briefing News
 
Buy more weapons is stupid

Without war, it's just a pile of scrap metal

Vietnam weapons purchases, only moderate

because Vietnam does not intend to attack other countries

Vietnam love peace, and respect for all other countries, but China will never love peace, because in history, they always attack other countries

They say, they want peace, but they come to our coast, they use force to destroy our probe

Their words and their work is different

Dear international friends, if we go to their shores, we destroy their probe, we say we want peace, would you think?

I think they are a liars. They want to invade other countries but their mouth say "peace", "peace", "peace" :tdown:
 
Your post clearly demonstrated a textbook example of an "illiterate" vietnamese idiot, work harder, get some more education instead of making a "fool" of out of yourselves, now take a look at whats mean by dirt "Cheap labour"? OK?

Chart.jpg

China Now Has Third Highest Labor Costs in Emerging Asia | China Briefing News

I didn't say Vietnam's high labor cost :rofl: But we know who we are. Cheap labor like a our strategy. we are not arrogant like GSK

Read it:
check out your computer, mouse, keyboard, cellpone, telephone, television, DVD player... Throw them away at once, they are low quality Chinese trash. Do it.
Why throw? "made in china" but it is not owned by the Chinese. :coffee:
 
I read carefully your page. But I don't see any your evidence. You only post a Chinese Map (That tell your border stop at Hainan)

Alone the map is not enough. We have a lot map to tell about that.

We have Nguyen's empire document that UNESCO accepted as a International heritage. In the document talk a lot about our right to Paracel and Spratly. Here is one page:

431858.jpg



Old Maps of Vietnam and China - Primary Evidence of VN's Sovereignty Over Paracel and Spratly

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, it means a country's right to its land that has been invaded by a foreign country.

Please visit these links to see that these ancient maps of Vietnam and China, drawn by Chinese, VIetnamese, and Westerners all indicate that the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos were never a part of China, but in fact were part of VIetnam. As for China, its southernmost boundaries went as far as....Hainan.

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Map of the Great Empire of An Nam (1838)

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Where is the southern most border of China?

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old maps of Vietnam and Paracel Islands drawn by Westerners

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old Map of Vietnam + Paracel (1827)

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old Vietnam Maps drawn by Vietnamese

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------[/SIZE
 
I read carefully your page. But I don't see any your evidence. You only post a Chinese Map (That tell your border stop at Hainan)

Alone the map is not enough. We have a lot map to tell about that.

We have Nguyen's empire document that UNESCO accepted as a International heritage. In the document talk a lot about our right to Paracel and Spratly. Here is one page:

431858.jpg




Old Maps of Vietnam and China - Primary Evidence of VN's Sovereignty Over Paracel and Spratly

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, it means a country's right to its land that has been invaded by a foreign country.

Please visit these links to see that these ancient maps of Vietnam and China, drawn by Chinese, VIetnamese, and Westerners all indicate that the Paracel and Spratly archipelagos were never a part of China, but in fact were part of VIetnam. As for China, its southernmost boundaries went as far as....Hainan.

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Map of the Great Empire of An Nam (1838)

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Where is the southern most border of China?

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old maps of Vietnam and Paracel Islands drawn by Westerners

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old Map of Vietnam + Paracel (1827)

Paracel and Spratly Islands Forum: Old Vietnam Maps drawn by Vietnamese

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------[/SIZE



You can not see my previous post? I just took the map? I took Sufficient history record to show that China's historical basis.
 
By the way, if you say history, no one can shake the status of the records of Chinese history in Asia, can only say that you want to show the history of Vietnam to China? It is too shallow.
 
The first to open in the South China Sea by the China route

The earliest record of this route about the South China Sea by《汉书·地理志下》,emperor of Han Dynasty, 156 BC - 87 BC



South China Sea islands first discovered by the Chinese

The earliest records in "three countries", emperor of Wu Sun Quan (AD 225 ~ 230)



The first named by the South China Sea Islands in China

"宋会要辑稿“ record that in 1018, Champa people to Guangdong, the case of wind drift to 石堂(《宋史》record “石塘” )



Business development and long-term continuous use by the Chinese settlers

Development and utilization of the first to come to the island, without a doubt are the fishermen along the coast of China, the literature has also been documented, such as Jin Yuan Pei "Guangzhou mind": "Coral Island. In Dongguan County, five hundred miles south, past people fishing in the sea, may coral "[12]. The island found that unearthed ancient relics sites is strong evidence.



The earliest records of the Han Dynasty (202 BC - AD 9 years)
 
http://www.csscipaper.com/chinahistory/xianqin/40257.html

一、最早发现和最早命名
(一)南海航路的最早开辟
南海沿海交通很古就已开辟,到了汉武帝置交趾九郡以后,随着疆域的发展,政治与经济联系上的需要,南海交通已发展成为重要的对外国际航路。最早记载这条对外航路是《汉书·地理志下》,出航点有日南障塞、徐闻、合浦三处,绕过印支半岛。第一个国家是马来半岛东岸的都元国,而后经缅甸沿岸的邑卢没、湛离、夫甘都卢等国,最后到达印度东海岸的黄支国及其南的已程不国。“汉之译使,自此还矣”,回程仅记“到日南象林界”而止。日南郡是当时最南之郡,象林县又是日南郡最南之县,到了日南象林界,就进到中国之境,而《汉志》的对外航路乃是记载所经外国之地,所以在国境内的都不记录,到象林界即结束。
汉代开辟这条对外航路,历代沿用,大体相同,只是在各段具体航程上,后代有发展改变。就后代的航路考察,一般都要经过七洲洋即西沙群岛的洋面,和崑崙洋即南沙群岛相连的洋面,所谓“上怕七洲、下怕崑崙”[1],已成为千百年流传下来的名言。穿过七洲洋面时,也可以到西沙群岛的岛屿周围停留,郑和七次下西洋的船队就不止一次从西沙群岛某些岛屿附近经过或停留。1920年日本渔民在西沙群岛珊瑚礁上发现很多的古钱,其中最多最新的是“永乐通宝”,多未经手磨,只能是郑和船队所遗留[2]。1974年又在西沙群岛北礁礁盘上发现体积很大的沉船,装载大量全新的“永乐通宝”钱,这只沉船只能判断是郑和船队中的一只[3]。尽管《郑和航海图》上也标绘着“石塘”、“万生(里)石塘屿”,即西沙群岛南沙群岛,而地下实物也证明船队确是经过这里,但是为什么参加航行的郑和的随员马欢、费信、巩珍等人的著作中都未记载南海诸岛呢?因为他们也仿照《汉书地理志》的体例,只记外国。而代表西沙与南沙群岛的“石塘”与“万里石塘屿”属中国疆域,所以未予记录。
(二)南海诸岛的最早发现
中国人民最早开辟南海航路。并多次穿经南海诸岛之中,没有这些航海的实践,发现南海诸岛就只能是妄想、空谈。南海诸岛最早发现只能属于中国人民,而不能属于他国。首先,南海对外航路的开辟,必然就导致发现这些岛屿。《汉书·地理志》对外航路仅记国外,国境内皆未予以记录,但不能认为汉代还没有发现。记载总是落后、晚于认识的,现在所见记载,最早为三国,吴大帝孙权于黄武年间(公元225~230年)派朱应、康泰,通海南诸国,所经及传闻则“百有数十国”。康泰等人回来后都写有著作,后来散失,仅存《扶南传》留有片断:“涨海中到珊瑚洲,洲底有盘石,珊瑚生其上也”[4]。涨海是南海另一叫法,涨海中的珊瑚洲就是南海诸岛,“洲底有盘石”就是指各岛屿下面的礁盘,由珊瑚礁构成的南海诸岛正是珊瑚虫体长期在礁盘上堆积而造成的,符合诸岛的形成实际过程。和朱应、康泰同时的吴国万震在《南州异物志》中记载,从马来半岛的句稚国往中国的航程中,“东北行,极大崎头,出涨海、中浅而多磁石”[5]。磁石就是指当时南海航路上隐没在水中的礁滩等,船舶遇之,常常搁浅拔不出来,就好象被磁石吸住一样。康泰所是当时南海已露出水面的岛屿、沙洲,而万震所讲的则是潜在水下的礁滩、暗沙。这是关于南海诸岛的最早记载,尽管非专指哪一岛屿,但完全符合当时的实际情况。综合两书,则岛屿、沙洲、暗沙、礁滩都全有了,这必然是多次航海实践和实地考察经历的结果。
隋大业三年(公元607年)屯田主事常骏、虞部主事王君政等,使请赤土(在马来半岛西岸),其航程只见《隋书·赤土传》:“(其年十月)骏等自南海部乘舟,昼夜二旬,每值便风,至焦石山,而过东南,泊陵伽钵拔多洲,西与林邑相对,上有神祠焉。又南行至师子石,自是岛屿连接,又行二、三日西望见狼牙须国之山,于是南达鸡笼岛,至于赤土之界。”
焦石山距南海郡即广州值顺风还有二十日程,陵伽钵拔多洲系梵名Lingapurvata译音,即贾耽“广州通海夷道”与北宋《武经总要》中巡海水师航路的陵山(今越南归仁北燕子岬湾内之Lang-Son港),比照后两书航程,必为占不劳山(广东群岛)以南南海诸岛,两书中的占不劳山距屯门分别为七日和十日,距广州约为十一日和十四日。所以日人藤田丰八考订焦石山为占不劳山是不可信的。焦石当即礁石,至少宋代航海中就常用此词,如《梦粱录》就提到南海中有鱼所聚,必多礁石。葡萄牙人最早称西沙群岛为Pracel,义为石礁,焦石山应为西沙群岛中一岛,大约就是《明清针路》中的万里石塘中的红石屿,明《顺风相送》说:“船若近外罗,对开,贪东七更船,便是万里石塘,内有红石屿,不高。”清初《指南正法》也有相同的记载[6]。由此可见除沿印支半岛海岸航行外,还有向东出万里石塘,经红石屿的一道。此处之万里石塘指西沙群岛,红石屿当指其中当航路之尖石岛,后来仍为船舶所经。
(三)南海诸岛的最早命名
(1)宋代统称南海诸岛为石塘、石床,分称则有长沙、石塘、千里长沙、万里石塘和七洲洋,以后就一直为中外所沿用。《宋会要辑稿》记天禧二年(公元1018年)占城人去广东,遇风漂到石堂(《宋史》作“石塘”)[7],周去非《岭外代答》说:“东大洋海则有长沙、石塘数万里”。十三世纪初的《琼管志》说:“东则有千里长沙,万里石塘”。闽南方言称礁为塘,石塘是指南海诸岛珊瑚岛,长沙则指由珊瑚碎屑在岛的周围构成的浅滩,露出水面就称沙洲,隐在水下的称为暗沙,千里、万里则形容岛、洲之多,绵延之长。至于《梦粱录》说:“去怕七洲,回怕崑崙”,七洲洋则专指西沙群岛附近的海面。
(2)明初《郑和航海图》进一步分出“石星石塘”、“万生(里)石塘屿”、“石塘”[8]。根据图上相互位置和针路记录,“石塘”是指西沙群岛,“万生(里)石塘屿”是指南沙群岛,“石星石塘”是指中沙和东沙群岛,当时还没有细分两个岛群,合在一起。

(3)清初陈伦炯《海国闻见录》及其附图明确将南海诸岛分为四个岛群,南澳气“在南沃之东南”,图绘最东,指东沙群岛;千里石塘图绘最南,指南沙群岛;七洲洋在琼岛万州之东南,图绘最西,指西沙群岛;万里长沙图绘于南澳气与千里石塘之间,指中沙群岛。至此东、西、南、中四个岛群已完全分开。
(4)中国对南海诸岛的命名,历史上也一直被外国人航行南海时遵用。上引天禧二年占城人来广东所说“石堂”(石塘),又嘉定九年(公元1216年)真里富(可能为泰国的他武里)使臣来中国,述其所经航程,也有“石塘,名曰万里”[9],都是用的中国名称。早期日本人的朱印船贸易广东至印支与马来半岛一带也多用中国针路和地名,这里须提出的就是朱印船贸易航程中也有“万里石塘”[10]。葡萄牙人于公元1514年最早来中国,早期他们所绘地图全把南海诸岛绘成长带状或长三角形长沙列岛[11],实为千里长沙、万里石塘的示意,其来源必出于中国商船和商人。葡萄牙语最早称西沙群岛为Pracel,就是石礁一类的意思。显然也就是我国石塘的意译,《郑和航海图》正是称西沙群岛为“石塘”。
  二、长期不断的经营开发与定居利用
南海古来就是中国人民生产和活动的海域,特别是和南方沿海居住的人民生活息息相关,他们很早就在南海中从事采集各种海产的活动,并不断来到岛上和其周围开发利用。他们一般都利用信风于冬季乘东南信风南下到西沙群岛、南沙群岛,到第二年台风季节来到之前利用西南信风北返,他们需要在岛上生活一段较长时期,从事生产和劳动,挖井汲水,盖造茅屋,修造庙宇,种植果树,开辟园地,畜养家禽等等,正是由于中国人民长期不断地辛勤劳动,才使南海诸岛由无人住(逐渐)变为有人住,由原始状态到逐步开发,自然面貌不断得到改造和改变。他们通过自己的双手劳动,用汗水浇灌岛上的土地,成为南海诸岛屿的主人。
在海产捕捞活动中,他们首先从事的是捕鱼。从远古开始,至今不断。最先来到岛上进行开发利用的毫无疑问是中国沿海的渔民,文献上也早有记载,如晋·裴渊《广州记》云:“珊瑚洲。在东莞县南五百里,昔人于海中捕鱼,得珊瑚”[12]。各岛上发现、出土的历代遗物、遗址更是有力的佐证。
解放前,南海诸岛上就陆续发现古代遗物,包括大量中国历代古钱,报刊早有报导。近年来西沙群岛更是发现和发掘出土了大批遗物和遗址。这些都无可争辩地证明:中国人民很早就是南海诸岛的主人。
(1)广东考古工作者在甘泉岛上发现和发掘唐宋居住遗址,出土遗物有铁刀、铁凿、铁锅残体和吃剩下来鸟骨、各种螺蚌壳以及燃煮食物的炭粒灰烬,107件唐代和宋代的青釉陶瓷器,包括罐、壶、碗、钵、瓶、盒等多种生活用器,从器形、釉色、花纹和制法都证明是唐宋时期广东窑场的产品,从而确定其主人一定来自广东沿海[13]。
(2)晋卿岛、广金岛、永兴岛、金银岛发掘出土和珊瑚岛等十一处岛屿、沙洲、礁盘上调查发现的大量瓷器,时代远比甘泉岛唐宋遗址为早,来源、范围也更加广泛。就时间考察,从南朝,历隋、唐、宋、元、明、清直到近代都有。绵延不断,其中北礁上发现的两件青釉六耳罐残体和一件完整的青釉小杯。具有鲜明的南朝瓷器时代特征,这三件还不能说是我国在西沙群岛上的最早文物,但可以说明至迟到南朝时,我国人民已来到这里生活。从(各岛上发现的)瓷器来源考察,大都是我国浙江、江西、福建、湖南、广东、广西等省的窑场产品[14]。充分证明中国人民至迟从南朝历唐、宋、元、明、清,对南海诸岛的经营、开发一直不断,渔民来源范围也日益广泛。
上引裴渊的《广州记》也是南朝时代的作品,文献与考古材料恰是相互印证。(从距离上推算)东莞在今广东宝安南头城。紧邻珠江口,北宋巡海水师营垒就设在这里,水师巡海就从此出发[15]。它是古代重要的出航点之一,由此向南五百里的珊瑚洲可能属西沙群岛。裴渊是晋时人,他只说是“昔时”,没有具体讲明时间,但必在他以前的很久,东莞一带的渔民就来到南海诸岛进行捕鱼和采集其他海产的活动了。
明清以来,我国南方渔民前往南海诸岛经营开发日益增多,南海诸岛已经成为我国重要的渔业基地之一,因而在岛上生活已经成为定居,以至移居,他们除了定居捕鱼和捕捞海产外,还克服自然条件种种困难,修屋造田。早在明 成化、弘治年间(十五世纪末)王佐纂修的《琼台外记》就有如下记载:
万州东长沙、石塘,环海之地,每遇铁飓挟潮,漫屋?{田。则利害中于民矣[16]。
长沙、石塘就是西沙与南沙群岛,这条材料不仅证明西沙与南沙群岛是属于海南岛的万州辖境,还说明岛上有屋有田,由于为海水所包围,台风一来,淹没田屋,人民受到灾难。根据实地调查、考察,不论西沙群岛和南沙群岛,许多岛上都有明清时代所建立的小庙以及古井、椰林、大树等。“西沙群岛的北岛、南岛、赵述岛、和五岛、晋卿岛、琛航岛、广金岛、永兴岛、珊瑚岛、甘泉岛等地,先后发现十四座明清以来的孤魂庙。”其中琛航岛上的小庙还遗留有明代龙泉窑烧造的瓷观音像,广金岛和北岛的小庙中分别遗留有清代景德镇窑和德化窑所烧造的瓷器,南沙群岛的太平岛、中北岛、南威岛、西月岛上也都有这类小庙。这些小庙“是我国广东渔民为悼念因开发南海诸岛而航海遇难的先辈亲人而建造的”[17]。
1933年9月1日《广东琼东草塘港渔民申诉法占珊瑚九岛书》说:
吾琼文昌县渔民因生活所迫,于清道光初年已到其地从事渔业,……嗣有各县多数渔户移居其地,建立房屋与兄弟公庙多所……[18]。
可见至迟清代中叶海南岛的文昌县以及他县人民已经移居到南沙群岛从事捕鱼,建屋修庙,已由短期定居而发展到移居。
从十九世纪以来,外国侵略者到西沙群岛、南沙群岛见到中国人民在各个岛上的开发活动,以及遗留下来各种史迹,也不得不承认这些铁的事实。下面仅将外国人在南沙群岛所见实况摘要集录:
(1)公元1867年(清同治六年)英国派测量船来福曼(Rifleman)号到南沙群岛测量,据来福曼号报导说:“各岛俱有海南渔民之足迹,以捕取海参、介贝为活,颇多常年留居于此,而由海南居民每岁遣小舟来此,供给粮食,易取参贝”[19]。
(2)公元1939年日本台湾总督府派内务局地理课主管池田一德等人到南沙群岛调查,其复命书云:“北群岛不但属于中国领海,且在文献中早已有人居住之实证,在北子岛有两座坟。碑一载:同治十一年翁文芹,另一载同治十三年吴口口”[20]。
(3)公元1868年英国海军部海图局编制的《China Sea Directo》载:“觅出礁(Discoyery Reef,即华光礁)西历正月至五月,琼州艇船。咸集此礁以围鱼。”“树岛(Tree Island,即赵述岛)岛上垣有中国渔人。”“林康岛(Linco Island,即和五岛)岛中央一椰树不甚大,并有一井,乃琼州渔人所掘,以滤咸水者”[21]。
(4)公元1818年日本人小仓卯之助带队到南沙群岛进行所谓“探险”,在其所著《暴风之岛——新南群岛发现记》一书中记:他们在北双子岛(北子礁)碰见三个中国渔民,住在小屋里,是海南岛文昌县人。并且也看到墓和水井,在西青岛(西月岛)也看见水井,在三角岛(中叶岛)看见窝棚、小庙和水井,在长岛(太平岛)看见一座水泥造的庙,有几块小匾额,年代是民国七年,庙附近有井[22]。
(5)公元1933年法国派军舰强占南沙群岛,据当时法人报导:
①盎白纳岛(La Cage Amboyne,即安波沙洲):“到处有渔人在岛暂住之遗迹。”
 
Back
Top Bottom