De-hyphenating India-Pakistan!!

[nForce]

I n v a s i o n .......... 1948 ?

Hyderabad 1948: India's hidden massacre - BBC News
Indian integration of Hyderabad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State of Hyderabad - That India invaded and conquered in 1948. Does that ring a bell?

Hyderabad State - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hyderabad has got nothing to do with Pakistan. When did you get the impression that Pakistan has a share in making India's policies towards issues that are totally unrelated to Pakistan ?

 

[SwAggeR]

India-Pakistan rivalry is akin to sibling rivalry where India is considered the elder sibling and is often asked by the "elders" around to show patience.
Let's accept it that India and Pakistan can never be friends- I call it fait accompli. Our relations have touched new lows and thawing relations in not a solution...so let's freeze it completely.
It's a well known fact that India and Pakistan would prosper by leap and bounds if they stop concentrating on each other. But since India is always expected to take the first step, India should act smart.
What do I mean by "act smart"??
No, I don't mean getting "non-state actors" involved, au contrarie I mean let's slowly cut off our relations and stop depending on each other.

How can this be achieved???

• By downgrading the diplomatic relations- Pakistan and India are often named in the same breath, so first both the countries must stop getting associated with each other. Aman ki asha and Samjhauta express have not achieved any tangible results. On India's part, India can put Pakistan in Consular status and allow limited functioning of Pakistan embassy in India till (say) LeT mastermind agrees to send his voice sample to India. Pakistan can also take a similar step.
• Reducing our economic dependence: India's GDP is expected to grow 7% this year, Pakistan on the other hand is lagging behind, its economic growth is stagnant at 2%. Current trade volume between the 2 countries is less than $3 billion and the bulk of it is carried out through Dubai. Why take the trouble?? I don't know about Pakistan but India's trade volume with other countries is over $700billion. So do we have to travel the extra mile in the name of "Aman ki asha"?? A big fat No!!!
• Kashmir is (not) an issue: The UNSC resolution which gets talked about on international forums, and that which asks Paksitan to vacate Kashmir, and India to conduct plebiscite, is not an obligation. The two countries should accept the status quo and move on. Let's accept LOC as IB.
• Let's seal our borders: This would ensure zero infiltration of terrorists, terrorism is the major disruption to peace process in the region. Since trade volume would be close to nil, sealing borders should not be a biggie. Once the borders are sealed we'll have to spend lesser on our defences and the money can be re-routed for infrastructure building.... A win-win situation for both the countries.

I am sure in our real lives we all know ppl with whom we don't want to be friends but don't want to be known as their foes either, and with whom we maintain a cordial relation for the sake of formality.
This what I hope for, since I have given up on peace talks.

Adding a poll on this thread would have made it better.Public opinion do play it's role in democracy Let's freeze it like Cuba and US did .Let's mine entire LoC and remaining radcliffe line.

 

[nForce]

Bhai jaan,

you are a good poster. Don't let this type of questions lower your standards. Thank you.

Finland and Argentina are not next door neighbors.

Please use better examples.

Let's hear you out sirji..We all will be proactive with you, including me.

What are the problems ?
What is the demand Pakistani awaam ?
How shall we approach it ?
I ask you to take the lead and summarize our conversations so far.

This is the Senior Section, and we all carry moral responsibilities.

@levina @third eye @ranjeet @Icarus @syed ali haider @Atanz

 

[Levina]

This is the Senior Section, and we all carry moral responsibilities.

@levina @third eye @ranjeet @Icarus @syed ali haider @Atanz

Give me time I have 5 pages to catch up.

 

[Leader]

India-Pakistan rivalry is akin to sibling rivalry where India is considered the elder sibling and is often asked by the "elders" around to show patience.
Let's accept it that India and Pakistan can never be friends- I call it fait accompli. Our relations have touched new lows and thawing relations in not a solution...so let's freeze it completely.
It's a well known fact that India and Pakistan would prosper by leap and bounds if they stop concentrating on each other. But since India is always expected to take the first step, India should act smart.
What do I mean by "act smart"??
No, I don't mean getting "non-state actors" involved, au contrarie I mean let's slowly cut off our relations and stop depending on each other.

How can this be achieved???

• By downgrading the diplomatic relations- Pakistan and India are often named in the same breath, so first both the countries must stop getting associated with each other. Aman ki asha and Samjhauta express have not achieved any tangible results. On India's part, India can put Pakistan in Consular status and allow limited functioning of Pakistan embassy in India till (say) LeT mastermind agrees to send his voice sample to India. Pakistan can also take a similar step.
• Reducing our economic dependence: India's GDP is expected to grow 7% this year, Pakistan on the other hand is lagging behind, its economic growth is stagnant at 2%. Current trade volume between the 2 countries is less than $3 billion and the bulk of it is carried out through Dubai. Why take the trouble?? I don't know about Pakistan but India's trade volume with other countries is over $700billion. So do we have to travel the extra mile in the name of "Aman ki asha"?? A big fat No!!!
• Kashmir is (not) an issue: The UNSC resolution which gets talked about on international forums, and that which asks Paksitan to vacate Kashmir, and India to conduct plebiscite, is not an obligation. The two countries should accept the status quo and move on. Let's accept LOC as IB.
• Let's seal our borders: This would ensure zero infiltration of terrorists, terrorism is the major disruption to peace process in the region. Since trade volume would be close to nil, sealing borders should not be a biggie. Once the borders are sealed we'll have to spend lesser on our defences and the money can be re-routed for infrastructure building.... A win-win situation for both the countries.

I am sure in our real lives we all know ppl with whom we don't want to be friends but don't want to be known as their foes either, and with whom we maintain a cordial relation for the sake of formality.
This what I hope for, since I have given up on peace talks.

there are elements on both sides that want to sabotage peace talks, those elements get support from anti-peace forces, who sell weapons to both Pakistan and India.. we are their markets, if we give up on peace, we give up on our future generations.. and anti-peace forces win.

secondly Kashmir is more close to Pakistan, then it would ever be to India, fair enough if its not acceptable, lets work out on de-militarization, but that also means India to back off from Siachin, lets earn together from tourism. but ofcourse for all this to work, it doesnot only need will but also wisdom.

 

[Bang Galore]

secondly Kashmir is more close to Pakistan, then it would ever be to India, fair enough if its not acceptable, lets work out on de-militarization, but that also means India to back off from Siachin, lets earn together from tourism. but ofcourse for all this to work, it doesnot only need will but also wisdom.

If the LoC is accepted as de facto border, Siachen could be demilitarized.

 

[WAJsal]

Taking tit for tat stance is not negative.

No this doesn't fall in tit for tat category. Wonder why Modi is trying to change the situations, what's happening now is all thanks to route he took. Let's hope for the best.

We have made it clear that we shall not tolerate the firing and killing of our soldiers on border. We shall retaliate.

BSF is the one starting this facade, most of the time. Most easiest way to come to this conclusion is, why would we risk such a mis-adventure? Note: we are already fighting a war on other side of the border, Army of all people isn't stupid enough to make such a stupid mistake. Indian leadership's negative approach also consisted of this to keep Pakistan at back-foot so they have a tougher time cleaning their other side of the border, or keep pressure on them. Simple analysis.

The problem with pakistan is that their army is not in their control. Whenever any possibility of good relation emerges, PA steps in to derail it.

Allegations, PA is the first of all people who want peace with India, do you think we want to fight a war or something, quite stupid comments.

If it is anybody to blame than it is Pakistani army and neither India nor Pakistani government.

Last couple of lines gave me Ebola, cancer etc, etc.

 

[Bang Galore]

V

We poke you wherever it hurts "you" ...


Now the reality the bitter reality is that india is in no position to start a war ... Even if it wanted too... Why? Apart from the economy ... The reality is that Pak is too strong to take down ... Militarily aswell as it enjoys support (military support aswell as diplomatic support from M.E & even indias rival China)...

What option does it leave india than ? Nothing and nothing but dialogue ...

Could poke you back too. Along with dialogue.

All in all ... No matter how much you shy away ... No matter how much you hate it... You will have to come to the dialogue table ... And trust me .. We are a very very patient nation ... And there shall be no "peace" till Kashmir issue is resolved by hook or crook!

Kashmir will never be resolved the way you wish it to be. Dialogue will come & go but you will get nothing that India does not wish to give. We are even more patient than you, especially because we are the status quo power. Don't think India worries itself if there is no "peace", it is not something that applies only to India solely.

 

[Leader]

If the LoC is accepted as de facto border, Siachen could be demilitarized.

not only siachin but Kashmir also needs to be demilitarize. let the people of same nation on both side move freely and earn their living through tourism.

 

[WAJsal]

One side Pakistan want talks other side it will continue to harbour good terrorist .

Inncorrect. Note: India is no saint, BLA, TTP list is too big. India has and is funding these groups to destabilize Pakistan, like it has done in the past.

Most of Indians even don't endorse the khoongressi policy on Kashmir... Modi is doing what is expected from him

This is what i wanted to read.

Mark my words once the region is terrorism free we two nation can resolve any issue of universe ...... But at present chances of any reconciliation on both side is bleak....

Agreed, thus the reason i stated India needs a sensible leader, Modi is too radicalized(as in anti-Pakistan, negativity, one of those people who cannot swallow Pakistans existence. Again my views please don't reply to this comment, i don't want to waste my time).

 

[Bang Galore]

not only siachin but Kashmir also needs to be demilitarize. let the people of same nation on both side move freely and earn their living through tourism.

Don't disagree. As long as the borders aren't being changed, the rest can be worked out over time. However that can only happen after the threat of cross border violence recedes.

 

[nForce]

not only siachin but Kashmir also needs to be demilitarize. let the people of same nation on both side move freely and earn their living through tourism.

Disagree. Free movement is not possible due to security reasons.

 

[Leader]

Don't disagree. As long as the borders aren't being changed, the rest can be worked out over time. However that can only happen after the threat of cross border violence recedes.

which is from both sides. acknowledging truth is first step.

 

[Bang Galore]

Inncorrect. Note: India is no saint, BLA, TTP list is too big. India has and is funding these groups to destabilize Pakistan, like it has done in the past.

This is what i wanted to read.

Agreed, thus the reason i stated India needs a sensible leader, Modi is too radicalized(as in anti-Pakistan, negativity, one of those people who cannot swallow Pakistans existence. Again my views please don't reply to this comment, i don't want to waste my time).

No point in putting out a comment & saying "don't comment". You don't get to choose our leaders. There is hardly one we like in Pakistan. Lets work with the ones we have.

which is from both sides. acknowledging truth is first step.

Not even Pakistan suggests that there is any cross border violence from Indian Kashmir.

 

[Leader]

Disagree. Free movement is not possible due to security reasons.

yar the concept of de-militarization is that we THE STATES back off from both sides, and let the people of Kashmir be at their own.

No point in putting out a comment & saying "don't comment". You don't get to choose our leaders. There is hardly one we like in Pakistan. Lets work with the ones we have.



Not even Pakistan suggests that there is any cross border violence from Indian Kashmir.

nor does India, but we the people should not lose our integrity in calling spade a spade.