Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[INDIAISM]

We dont have 350-380 Mig 21s..we just have 121. Even if you retire 140 Mig 27, 121 Migs abd 100 Jaguars. You cant replace all of them by LCA as LCA has a limited role so far.

Please note that Jaguars are nuclear capable bombers too. You need a fighter like FGFA to replace this fleet...

iaf will retire around 200 mig 21 till 2011 and after that we will have 121 mig 21(my suggestion don't follow wikipedia blindly)and as far as nuclear capability of jags r concern.........we will have around 270 su 30mki and all of them can carry nuclear bombs...................and don't 4 get even rafale can carry nuclear bomb{if we go for it}+ we will get around 18 pakfa by 2020..we will have around 410 fighter which r capable enough to carry nuclear bombs.........how much more do u want...........now comming back to the topic i think we can replace mig 27 fleet and mig 21 fleet with lca tejas

 

[sancho]

Just found the older Graphic of the Jas 39 Gripen and where its parts come from:




This was the changed graphic for the Brazilian competition (looks better if you have one flag for EU, instead of different once for UK, France and Germany):



In that time Saab hoped to co-develop an AESA radar, but now it is just bought from from Selsex Galileo, just like the IRST. Which shows that except of the airframe and radardome, only minor avionic parts like EWS, data links, Flight Control Systems and System Computers are really from Sweden.

 

[KEETARP]

Just compare LCA MK1 and Gripen C/D specs, that are already available (unlike the full specs of NG, or MK2) and you hardly can deny it

That is not true , why compare with old specs ,NG is fully complete and tested .
If you missed the news a NG with full and final specs + with all weapon integration flew to India. All the data is available with IAF who not only hold the brochure but have flown Gripen-NG themselves sitting in the forward seat .
leave LCA mark2 which hasn't left drawing board , even LCA-1 has not fired a single guided missile or bomb .
You believe that in time LCA2 comes , SAAB officials would be sitting in their office resting and not planning Gripen- NNGG


If you compare fighter without tech inside
then Mig29s = Eurofighter , pointless when we are talking off which one is superior
Its simply like Iran's FLIR = US FLIR

Design: LCA and Gripen are 4th gen multi role, single engine, delta wing fighters, only difference are the canards of the Gripen

Dosen't count
What is the AoA , sustained turn rate , Max speed , rate of climb , sea-level speed , altitude - compare them that will decide which one will win air-warfare .

Radar, avionics, weapons: both have multi mode, pulse doppler radars, have fully digital-, glass cockpit, are BVR and PGM capable

Dosen't proves MMR = Vixen1000
Radar is Vixen1000 , its an AESA and has been integrated with all Gripen's weapons . Gripen flew to India and fired A2s weapons .

are BVR and PGM capable

Is capable and would be capable
Dosen't mean METEOR = ASTRA/R77

avionics

IRST/FLIR ????
MIDS TAIDLS - Tactical datalink ????

Roles: both for point defense and close air support

Gripen can perform much more role than that , depends on req of Air-force and what role did Mig21 had.

Empty weight: 6800 Kg / 5680 Kg

Powerplant: Volvo Aero RM12 (GE 404 derivate) / General Electric F404-GE-IN20
Dry thrust: 54 kN / 53.9 kN
Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN / 85kN

Living with old specs aren't we F114 ? ? ? its final and tested and flown
If I have T/W ratio to supercruise my Boggy or perform 9G , dosen't it count

Range with drop tanks: 3200 Km / 3000 Km

Old specs
Article few months back -

The Demonstrator project team has affirmed that they have finished, and successfully verified,the flight tests of the electro-optical Missile Approach Warning System (MAW) and the new fuel system with larger internal fuel tanks. The NG with its extended range is crucially different from the JAS 39 C/D in this particular area.

. i would say why not 4000 vs 3000

Gripen has only a slight advantage

This slight advantage will matter in war ,
and there is just slight advantage of Eurofighter over Mig35

You simply can't say that the NG would have a clear advantage over it, like the Rafale, or EF would offer

Then Rafale and Eurofighter come with disadvantage of their own

Supercruise - we are talking off armed boggie and not clean one
Flight hour cost - Does any one of the has less than $3000
Hot refuel - Any one them offers such thing ,
Performance at high altitude like LEH , how many failed
Lower Fly away cost and lower operational life-time cost - Can any of others match Gripen ???
How many double engined fighters and high operational cost you need , I would rather prefer a fighter that can take off from Torn air-fields or Roads , can Hot refuel and always provides a economical option .

Please understand that it can not! Saab is not in the situation to offer LCA anything else besides the data links that Dash mentioned before, because for all other main techs they are also just a customer only

For most of tech LCA is not dependent on MRCA , we have diff JV for tht
SNMECA,- for engine whether Rafale looses or not
EADS - for consultation whether Eurofighter wins or not
Israel for EW suite - whetehr India picks EL2052 or not
AESA tech - JV to be decided , can be NIIR/ELTA/Selex any one .
Engine- GE or EJ2000 irrespective of F18/Eurofighter
Avionics/IRST /Datalinks from BEL

I now ask what does Eurofighter offer us for LCAmk2 .

This is the 3 or 4th time , I am giving why Gripen is better than LCA . Should have checked 2 pages back , i wrote same things and many times before as well .

Its not only me but almost all defence experts whether
Vishnu Som ,
Shiv Aroor or
even IAF pilots
are of that opinion , everyone supports Gripen .
Every month almost 10 magazines cover MRCA issue - Try and go thru what everyone says .


Why does IAF which was ready to axe Rafale in first stage , gave Gripen a month extra and second chance .
Why was Eurocopter dis-qualified and Gripen not for sending C,D version
Who cleared LEH trials easily .

I am very straight-forward by my logic and analysis , i seldom depart from my straight one line thinking .
If any LCA fan gets hurt and labels me MAstan Khan it dosent bothers me
Thanks

 

[Dash]

iaf will retire around 200 mig 21 till 2011 and after that we will have 121 mig 21(my suggestion don't follow wikipedia blindly)and as far as nuclear capability of jags r concern.........we will have around 270 su 30mki and all of them can carry nuclear bombs...................and don't 4 get even rafale can carry nuclear bomb{if we go for it}+ we will get around 18 pakfa by 2020..we will have around 410 fighter which r capable enough to carry nuclear bombs.........how much more do u want...........now comming back to the topic i think we can replace mig 27 fleet and mig 21 fleet with lca tejas

My apologies, wasnt aware of the actual numbers.
However I was coming from a different conversation where i said LCA project will be successful and nothing can stop it.

The more the number the better is, i am happy that it will have better chances of survival.

As per Mig 27 and Mig 21 being replaced by LCA, I will agree.

 

[Dash]

Hehe, actually you gave the best example how foreign arms gave problems to indigenous developments!
Now compare that with LCA and MMRCA, 99 + 49 optional engines for MK2 are under evaluation, but MMRCA is for 126 + 64 optional, already less than LCA. If IAF/MoD wants to order more fighters and they could produce more LCAs, or licence produce more foreign fighters, exactly the same choice IA had with Arjun and T90

Sancho - Do you really think T-90 Killed Arjun???, we need to dig the past and the the then scenario to understand who killed whom. I will not counter-argue with this as this will go off topic.
ok... one thing you cant deny that Arjun has not lost the battle, As i dont see in future IA is going for a foreign tank. That will be all indegenous. I will not go about the "speculated" FMBT project with Russia and simply believe that DRDO will do much better in MK2 and who knows may be their own FMBT may arrive sonner than Indo Russian one...ok...lets drop it here.

And how important ToT is for MoD should be obvious by the fact that they asked for unusual much ToT in the MMRCA competition. Also see how important ToT was in the MKI deal, do you think without ToT from Russia we would be able to produce nearly all parts of the MKI in India now? That was important because we learned from the problems with sanctions and spare supply from foreign nations in the past.

OK fine we got the TOT and TOT is important, but can we say just because we got the TOT for Su30 MKI, Can we make another MKI of our own???...I am sure you understand the difference.

Iam sure we all know what it TOT and what is transfer of reasearch blue prints...large difference. Regardless of how many MMRCA you get, that TOT will just be an value adder than actual foundation to build a new plane.

 

[KEETARP]

Dash , no use .
Believe me many believe that IA is useless , corrupt and runs behind foreign arms .Officers are only interested in money-making. I have seen many statements here
While DRDO is full of saint who haven't done a single mistake and have always given superior tech without any delay .
IA is killing DRDO ,Arjun , Yes , and IA wants India doomed

 

[sancho]

Now you really surprise me, because you don't see it with a unbiased point of view anymore!

That is not true , why compare with old specs ,NG is fully complete and tested .
If you missed the news a NG with full and final specs + with all weapon integration flew to India. All the data is available with IAF who not only hold the brochure but have flown Gripen-NG themselves sitting in the forward seat .
leave LCA mark2 which hasn't left drawing board , even LCA-1 has not fired a single guided missile or bomb .
You believe that in time LCA2 comes , SAAB officials would be sitting in their office resting and not planning Gripen- NNGG

As I said in my that post, I took those specs because their are available for both fighters and more over for us! IAF should have more details on LCA MK2 too, but we don't have it, so for a comparison we can only take the specs of LCA MK1 and Gripen C/D.

Most of the comments you made are wrong, because you compare LCA MK1 with the specs of Gripen NG, which doesn't make sense.

Then Rafale and Eurofighter come with disadvantage of their own

Supercruise - we are talking off armed boggie and not clean one
Flight hour cost - Does any one of the has less than $3000
Hot refuel - Any one them offers such thing ,
Performance at high altitude like LEH , how many failed
Lower Fly away cost and lower operational life-time cost - Can any of others match Gripen ???
How many double engined fighters and high operational cost you need , I would rather prefer a fighter that can take off from Torn air-fields or Roads , can Hot refuel and always provides a economical option .

Of course, every fighter has its pros and cons and I always pointed out them too, so the best choice is the one with the most advantages and the least disadvantages. But the point here was, that they offer a clear difference in performance over a similar gen LCA, which Gripen NG will not.
Btw nobody had failed in LEH, all that was reported was that 5 fighters had to be modificated to do the trials, but they still did the trials tight?
Honestly I don't want too many twin engine fighters too (at least they are not indigenous engines). I would replace several of the Jaguars with Rafales too, because they are simply not useful and too limited in capabilities anymore. It would be better to increase the number of LCA MK2 to 200 and add 126-150 Rafales, IAF would be more capapable and could get more commonality on weapons and techs too.

For most of tech LCA is not dependent on MRCA , we have diff JV for tht
SNMECA,- for engine whether Rafale looses or not
EADS - for consultation whether Eurofighter wins or not
Israel for EW suite - whetehr India picks EL2052 or not
AESA tech - JV to be decided , can be NIIR/ELTA/Selex any one .
Engine- GE or EJ2000 irrespective of F18/Eurofighter
Avionics/IRST /Datalinks from BEL

I didn't said that LCA is dependent on MRCA for techs, but similar techs gives commonality and less costs, so if we can team up with Rafale, or EF vendors we could make LCA more advanced and get more commonality too, not to forget that these ToT would be useful for a future MCA development too.

I now ask what does Eurofighter offer us for LCAmk2 .

EJ 200 engine including ToT, if we fund it even with TVC,
Swashplate AESA radar is developed from EF members and they could be a development partner for us, IRST, all kind of MBDA weapons and so on and although i don't understand it, it seems like thy will be the partner for N-LCA too.

Why does IAF which was ready to axe Rafale in first stage , gave Gripen a month extra and second chance .
Why was Eurocopter dis-qualified and Gripen not for sending C,D version

Come on man, now you are going over board with baseless points! Eurocopter was never disqualified, the Fennec even won the competition and only because Bell protested, it was cancelled and re-issued. This has nothing to do with MMRCA at all

I am very straight-forward by my logic and analysis , i seldom depart from my straight one line thinking .
If any LCA fan gets hurt and labels me MAstan Khan it dosent bothers me
Thanks

I have no problem with you point of view, but be fair and compare the specs I provided from similar versions of LCA and Gripen, otherwise it makes no sense.

 

[Dash]

Dash , no use .
Believe me many believe that IA is useless , corrupt and runs behind foreign arms .Officers are only interested in money-making. I have seen many statements here
While DRDO is full of saint who haven't done a single mistake and have always given superior tech without any delay .
IA is killing DRDO ,Arjun , Yes , and IA wants India doomed

Prateek -

We are all here fighting our words out in support of LCA and MRCA. But you sound frustrated. Sancho and Gogbot are just apprehending that once Gripen comes it will kill LCA program. Which is correct in its own way. I mean thats fine, what I am trying to convince them that it doesnt.

For most of tech LCA is not dependent on MRCA , we have diff JV for tht
SNMECA,- for engine whether Rafale looses or not
EADS - for consultation whether Eurofighter wins or not
Israel for EW suite - whetehr India picks EL2052 or not
AESA tech - JV to be decided , can be NIIR/ELTA/Selex any one .
Engine- GE or EJ2000 irrespective of F18/Eurofighter
Avionics/IRST /Datalinks from BEL

I already echoed this earlier.

I now ask what does Eurofighter offer us for LCAmk2 .

This is the 3 or 4th time , I am giving why Gripen is better than LCA . Should have checked 2 pages back , i wrote same things and many times before as well .

Its not only me but almost all defence experts whether
Vishnu Som ,
Shiv Aroor or
even IAF pilots
are of that opinion , everyone supports Gripen .
Every month almost 10 magazines cover MRCA issue - Try and go thru what everyone says .

I will agree to this point, but here comes my openion.

1. Gripen is better than LCA now, but LCA can reach where Gripen is now in some time, say 5 years, 2017. You will get Gripen NG after a year say 2018.
Now please tell me if LCA cant be made as good as Gripen in that time...

2. Gripen supercruises, but is it with full weapons load?.not just with A2A missiles..
3. If gripen can supercruise at Mach 1.1 with Ge F141 engine, then LCA can supercruise?
4. The above points like hot fuelling, taking off from torn off runaways are actually essential in case of war. However in war, what superiority it can bring over our advesaries who are fielding F-16 block 52 and J-10 muscles.

I am saying in case of war, what advantages it can have, if it were to sent as a strike/bomber/air defense (considering its a multirole aircraft) aircraft with full weapons load against these fighters. Please dont tell me just AESA will do...

I am asking these questions, because I am sure IAF will also see what kind of threat they will have in case of war and how their machines will turn out to be superrior. as I think this is a decisive point in case of a war.

 

[sancho]

Sancho - Do you really think T-90 Killed Arjun???,
How else do you explain that we buy nearly 6 times less numbers of the more capable MBT? You can reply with PM too if you want.



OK fine we got the TOT and TOT is important, but can we say just because we got the TOT for Su30 MKI, Can we make another MKI of our own???...I am sure you understand the difference.

Iam sure we all know what it TOT and what is transfer of reasearch blue prints...large difference. Regardless of how many MMRCA you get, that TOT will just be an value adder than actual foundation to build a new plane.

The aim was not to make another MKI, but to have reliable supply lines, not to mention that it helped our developments too with know how and just like that we would benefit from MMRCA ToT too.
For example, we had problems with MMR and Kaveri engine, so if we get ToT of latest engines, or AESA radars, it will be easier for us to improve, or develop such things for MCA in future alone right?

P.S.

I am saying in case of war, what advantages it can have, if it were to sent as a strike/bomber/air defense (considering its a multirole aircraft) aircraft with full weapons load against these fighters. Please dont tell me just AESA will do...

I am asking these questions, because I am sure IAF will also see what kind of threat they will have in case of war and how their machines will turn out to be superrior. as I think this is a decisive point in case of a war.

And that is what I said meant too! Of course the Rafale will be costlier than Gripen NG, but during war times it offers way more advantages for IAF and IN, than a Gripen NG, or LCA MK 2 could offer.

Points like up to 12 weapon stations + 2 for pods, 9.5t payload, CFTs if we want, the best passive detection capabilities, sanction proofness and a proven and ready platform that offers no risks of delays are unmatchable from other competitiors.

 

[KEETARP]

Most of the comments you made are wrong, because you compare LCA MK1 with the specs of Gripen NG, which doesn't make sense

Why should we not ,
why compare old Gripen when the one competing in tender is NG , if anyone will see servive in IAF will be Ng nor C,D
Everyone knows Gripen NG has flown with AESA , its not SAAB's fault that LCA lacks this .

Honestly I don't want too many twin engine fighters too

And in next line you give your verdict in favour of Rafale .
You want common engine , why not F114 , why it has to be Snmeca or Ej2000 only .

we can team up with Rafale, or EF vendors we could make LCA more advanced

There is nothing Rafale ,
you sign agreement with Dassault , MBDA , Thales , EADS , US companies in RAFALE and Eurofighter separately . There is no single and easy way out . How much ToT these companies offer we have seen through decades .
There are no water-seal agreements , if EADS decides to provide wrong tools .
dosen't it matter another Hawk incident happens or not .
No one will offer Full ToT , dosent matter what they say in Press . Why would they give decades of research to a country .

EJ 200 engine including ToT, if we fund it even with TVC,

They have offered EJ2000 ToT without MRCA as well.

MBDA weapons

If you missed MBDA chief interview , he said we gain from MRCA if any of three European Jets win .

Swashplate AESA radar

Same comes with Gripen ,
if we want to be partner for LCA2 , ink a separate deal . Exactly for which LRDE is working now.

Come on man, now you are going over board with baseless points! Eurocopter was never disqualified, the Fennec even won the competition and only because Bell protested, it was cancelled and re-issued.

The previous contract was cancelled by the ministry after it found that the chopper offered by Eurocopter for the field trials at that time was a civilian version whereas the company had offered a military version for the deal in its bid

why then Gripenc,d was allowed when offered was one was Ng .

baseless points

Not , baseless . Better read that article once again why Tender was cancelled.

For the last time - LCA rise and Fall is not dependent on Gripen . It will depend on Merit of LCA itself

 

[KEETARP]

1. Gripen is better than LCA now, but LCA can reach where Gripen is now in some time, say 5 years, 2017. You will get Gripen NG after a year say 2018.

See the words , can reach .
How come we are sure LCA2 will be = Gripen NG , any parameter to justify that
I would say MCA better than everything else , buy Gripen rt now and by 2022 MCA = PakFa and better than Rafale , sounds stupid but same is your argument

3. If gripen can supercruise at Mach 1.1 with Ge F141 engine, then LCA can supercruise?

You have to redesign-intakes and FCS for that , there are Supercruise Trim-Drag penality for any loaded design . Not necessary ADA will change design or intakes . Next at supersonic flights your air-flow computers will demand certain angle or control and FCS system will demand another position . Means upgrade ur FCS or change intakes .

Gripen supercruises, but is it with full weapons load?.not just with A2A missiles..

Gripen supercruises with A2A missiles ,
tell me does another jet cruises without using afterburner in in non-clean load.

However in war, what superiority it can bring over our advesaries who are fielding F-16 block 52 and J-10 muscles

Are u saying Gripen is inferior to J10 or block52

I am saying in case of war, what advantages it can have, if it were to sent as a strike/bomber/air defense (considering its a multirole aircraft) aircraft with full weapons load against these fighters. Please dont tell me just AESA will do...
I am asking these questions, because I am sure IAF will also see what kind of threat they will have in case of war and how their machines will turn out to be superrior. as I think this is a decisive point in case of a war.

Advantages many -
Netcentric Fighter

Smallest and least RCS

Supercruise

Superior Sensor Fusion, with better situational awareness

First to know - first to act - A combination of low radar, IR and visual signatures, along with a AESA radar, an Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) sensor and superior sensor fusion, including leading new generation weapons integration, ensure a high hit ratio in any engagement.
F16 bl52 dosent have an IRST nor does J10a

Outstanding Agility- great T/W ratio compared to Bl52
HMD with high-off bore sight capability to fire Python5 or ASRAAM , does J10 have better missile than Python5

High Operational Tempo and readiness

Affordability - For every three Eurofighter , I can field 3 Gripens .
I am in better position to win war and prevent falling nos

I am asking these questions, because I am sure IAF will also see what kind of threat they will have in case of war and how their machines will turn out to be superrior. as I think this is a decisive point in case of a war

What do you think IAF is doing , they are looking for exactly same things . We are out to get best Fighter that suit our needs and economy , not the best flying thing out there .
If you can defeat an enemy with 60mill why use 100mill for same thing .

 

[sancho]

Why should we not ,
why compare old Gripen when the one competing in tender is NG , if anyone will see servive in IAF will be Ng nor C,D
Everyone knows Gripen NG has flown with AESA , its not SAAB's fault that LCA lacks this .

Because it doesn't makes sense to compare a 4. gen fighter with a 4.5 gen fighter, is is obvious that the NG is better than the LCA MK1, just like the Mig 35 is better than the Mig 29SMT IAF will have soon. But if you compare 4. gen LCA Mk1 wit 4. gen Gripen C/D you clearly see that they don't have much difference and same could be for LCA MK2 and Gripen NG, because LCA is similar and has the potential.

And in next line you give your verdict in favour of Rafale .
You want common engine , why not F114 , why it has to be Snmeca or Ej2000 only .

Because EJ 200 is the better engine and needs less changes for LCA, also I want Kaveri-Snecma, because it is an indigenous engine and I want to see it ready and flying in a fighter after all these developments and Rafale is the only option at the moment.

Why would they give decades of research to a country .

Simple answer, to make money through exports! Be it Dassault, the EF consortium, or Saab, they all needs export now than ever before, because the crisis hit them very strong and besides France, all countries reduces their initial orders. Don't forget that this is the biggest fighter deal of the decade and the Eurocanards are more expensive than their US counterparts, that's why they offer more ToT, or source codes to seal this deal.

Same comes with Gripen ,
if we want to be partner for LCA2 , ink a separate deal . Exactly for which LRDE is working now.

How? Sweden is just a customer, not a co-developer of that radar, so how can we team up with them? The Gripen NG is also customer of the GE 414 engine, can we team up with them on basis of that engine too?

The previous contract was cancelled by the ministry after it found that the chopper offered by Eurocopter for the field trials at that time was a civilian version whereas the company had offered a military version for the deal in its bid

Not , baseless . Better read that article once again why Tender was cancelled.

Check this if you don't believe me:

Bell quits IAF's light utility chopper bids

New Delhi, Nov 13 ...

...The decision of Bell comes within a month of it exiting the attack helicopter bids citing problems with procurement procedure.

India had issued the request for proposals (RFP) for the 197 LUHs this July.
Bell claimed the Indian Defence Ministry had put down clauses under which the original equipment manufacturer winning the contract was bound to plough back 50 per cent of the deal amount to India as offsets, which was hard for them to comply with.

In fact, India was forced to issue a fresh tender for its LUH requirements, after cancelling the original RFP in December last following objections raised by Bell over rejection of its bids in favour of French major Eurocopter's AS-355 'Fennec'.

Bell and Eurocopter were the two final contenders and India had decided to put its weight with 'Fennec' after technical evaluation.

The US company had contended that India had unjustifiably rejected its bid and had not given it a fair chance to participate in the technical trials of their product, Bell-407 'Shen'. As it was at the Bell's insistence that India re-tendered for the LUH, the decision of the US company to withdraw from the bid was received with surprise by the Defence Ministry, sources said.

why then Gripenc,d was allowed when offered was one was Ng .

Because it makes no difference in the weapon trials, Gripen NG has no new weapons that the C/D didn't have integrated yet. That trial was mainly about the weapons, not about the flight performance. Btw, a German EF made the flight trials in India, but it will be a more capable British EF that will be fielded in the weapon trials.

 

[KEETARP]

This is article posted in this forum only -
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...mn-global-tender-buy-choppers.html#post405179

Paris (PTI): India is planning to carry out field trials for procuring 197 Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) for the Army and the Air Force in August this year.

"We are planning to carry out the flight evaluation trials for the 197 LUH contract in August this year but the schedule has not yet been finalised. Five vendors are expected to come up with their helicopters for the competition," Indian Defence Ministry officials told PTI here.

The five contenders participating in the contract include the Russian Kazan and Mil, American Sikorsky, Italian Finnmeccanica and European helicopter manufacturers Eurocopter.

The contract, expected to be worth around $3 billion, is one of the few defence contracts where the vendors are required to fulfill around 50 per cent offset obligations.

The offsets clause in the Defence Procurement Procedures makes it mandatory for the companies awarded such deals to invest a certain percentage of the contract's worth back in the Indian defence sector.

In March this year, all the five companies responded to the global Request for Proposal (RFP) issued by the Defence Ministry last year.

The RFP was sent to six companies, including American Bell Helicopters, but it had backed out of the race citing the high offset obligations required in the contract.

The RFP was released by the Defence Ministry after it had cancelled a previous contract in December 2007 for similar type and number of helicopters.

The previous contract was cancelled by the ministry after it found that the chopper offered by Eurocopter for the field trials at that time was a civilian version whereas the company had offered a military version for the deal in its bid.

The chopper engine offered in the Eurocopter's bid was also different from the one fitted in the civilian version, which participated in the trials.

"We would be sending a military version of the helicopter for the field trials for the contract," Eurocopter vice-president Rainer Farid told PTI during the Paris Air Show.

Because EJ 200 is the better engine and needs less changes for LCA

How come Ej2000 is better ,
Better thrust
Better Fuel consumption
Less maintenance what ????
Why EJ2000 will not require any changes ,
is it exactly same as F404IN .
Same length ,
requires same flow of air
Or just bcoz manufacturer says so

Swashplate AESA radar is developed from EF members and they could be a development partner for us,

Lame statement , LCA radar and MRCA are not linked at all .
LRDE is looking for a development partner , since current MMR is based on ELTA better go with ELTA .
If there is too much reluctance of Vixen , sign a JV with Vixen . Why do you need MRCA for this . Not linked at all .

Because it doesn't makes sense to compare a 4. gen fighter with a 4.5 gen fighter, is is obvious that the NG is better than the LCA MK1, just like the Mig 35 is better than the Mig 29SMT IAF will have soon. But if you compare 4. gen LCA Mk1 wit 4. gen Gripen C/D you clearly see that they don't have much difference and same could be for LCA MK2 and Gripen NG, because LCA is similar and has the potential

Does it make sense , then if u start comparing F16block2 vs LCA and start saying Lca better than F16 . And when someone counters you taking block52/60 , u simply backout saying LCA will get better in future .
Why then you started this comparison knowing current Gripen is 4.5 Gen and better .

That trial was mainly about the weapons, not about the flight performance. Btw, a German EF made the flight trials in India, but it will be a more capable British EF that will be fielded in the weapon trials

Trial is already over , don't believe me this is today's news-

In the run-up to the trials, the shortlisted IAF test pilots and engineers had undergone extensive training in Germany.

"The final phase of flight trials were conducted in Europe to test the fighter's cutting edge weapons systems and advanced sensors. The exercises included dropping precision guided munitions and launching air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles," Casolini added.
Eurofighter used two Typhoons of the German Air Force's squadron 73, which is based at Laage in northern Germany.

 

[Basha_Trichy]

HAI TO ALL ,This is my first posting on this forum.

A happy news for euro fighter lovers,

European fighters become 25% cheaper

The six contenders for the MMRCA contract — US companies Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russian company MiG and European companies Dassault, Eurofighter and Gripen — will submit fresh price bids this month to India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) since their earlier bids, submitted in March 2008, were valid for just two years.
At that time, the euro was worth more than $1.55; today, it has dropped below 1.2 to the dollar, almost 25 per cent cheaper in relative terms. The Swedish krona has fallen as precipitously: worth $0.165 in March 2008, the krona is at $0.126 now.

That means that a bid, calculated in euros as the equivalent of $11 billion in 2008, would be just $8-8.5 billion today, cheaper by as much as $3 billion, or Rs 13,200 crore.

Taking note of this, Enzio Casolini, the CEO of Eurofighter GmbH, the four-nation consortium that manufactures the Eurofighter, told Business Standard, “This (the drop in the euro) is important, especially in relation to the American competitors. In comparison with the dollar, we went down from more or less 1.5 (dollars to the euro) to 1.2. So, this is good…”

Says Bernhard Gerwert, Board Chairman of Eurofighter GmbH, “When we launched Eurofighter’s campaign in India in 2007, I thought we had only a 10 per cent chance of winning the contract. Today, I believe we have a better than 50 per cent chance of winning.”

Sorry iam unable to post the link for the source,but the article is in business standard website

 

[Dash]

See the words , can reach .
How come we are sure LCA2 will be = Gripen NG , any parameter to justify that
I would say MCA better than everything else , buy Gripen rt now and by 2022 MCA = PakFa and better than Rafale , sounds stupid but same is your argument

My argument wasnt there to justify LCA2's readiness with compared to Gripen NG, i will not compare LCA1 to Gripen NG. My whole point is based on possibility and its the only thing Iam banking on now.

If someone tells me there is a possibility LAC2 becoming F16 block 60(single engine fighter) or Typhoon or Rafale then I will clearly say there is no "possibility". but here I see a possibility and I see the possibility coming true so I will say LCA2 can be made equivallent to Gripen, coz I support aggresive indegeneous expansions. term it as over optimism or may be sounds stupid.

But will you completely deny the factor that LCA2 cant reach where Gripen is in 5-7 years?, Say No....

You have to redesign-intakes and FCS for that , there are Supercruise Trim-Drag penality for any loaded design . Not necessary ADA will change design or intakes . Next at supersonic flights your air-flow computers will demand certain angle or control and FCS system will demand another position . Means upgrade ur FCS or change intakes

There is already a need to redesign the inlets coz anyway you have to incorporate a higher thurst engine demanding higher air flow. But if you design it to be supersonic you have to keep the inflow at subsonic. But Can you say it cant be done?

Gripen supercruises with A2A missiles ,
tell me does another jet cruises without using afterburner in in non-clean load.

See if we dig the records even Eurofighter is said to have supercruised at mach 1.3 and so Rafale. Some say even full weapons load. I am no "Expert" to prove myself true but I have read from experts.

Are u saying Gripen is inferior to J10 or block52

I never said its inferior, i will always say everything we have in MRCA is superiror. However whats the Level of superiority was the question.which you answered in later post.

Smallest and least RCS

Doesnt mean anything, we should send Bisons then, ohh even LCA.

Smallest and least RCS

tell me whats the meaning of supercruise for such small distances, I mean considering the distance we have to cover for our adversaries. and If they come to our land to fight a war, I dont see much value add by superscruise, unless you want to bomb Antarctica...

Superior Sensor Fusion, with better situational awareness

First to know - first to act - A combination of low radar, IR and visual signatures, along with a AESA radar, an Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) sensor and superior sensor fusion, including leading new generation weapons integration, ensure a high hit ratio in any engagement.
F16 bl52 dosent have an IRST nor does J10a

Outstanding Agility- great T/W ratio compared to Bl52
HMD with high-off bore sight capability to fire Python5 or ASRAAM , does J10 have better missile than Python5

High Operational Tempo and readiness

All these are good. Agree...

Affordability - For every three Eurofighter , I can field 3 Gripens .
I am in better position to win war and prevent falling nos

Excellent point and even I have highlighted this earlier. to add to your point that it can bridge the gap of falling "Numbers" easily...at least in IAF squadrons..


And by the way, its selex galileo that has provided Skywards G IRST for Gripen. The same company which has given PIRATE to Typhoon. I searched net but didnt find the IRST SKYWARDs broucher.

Do you have any aricle that gives its technicality?