Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[nightrider_saulat]

i think you people should go for mig-35,that is why because of your three decades long experience on fulcrums

 

[sancho]

i think you people should go for mig-35,that is why because of your three decades long experience on fulcrums

But unless this don't offer any advantages for IAF, so not a good choice.

 

[arya-is-here]

well only rafale is best option for IAF

its not about cost its about the best of best with tech and TOT

 

[nightrider_saulat]

But unless this don't offer any advantages for IAF, so not a good choice.

i think it's TVC is among the best engines available today in the world
i think even better then those of rafale and eurofighter

 

[sancho]

i think it's TVC is among the best engines available today in the world
i think even better then those of rafale and eurofighter

Rafale has no TVC, EF could get it, but with their delta canard design they belong to the most manouverable fighters even without this tech.
However, for IAF TVC is not an important requirement in MMRCA, because the MKIs already have it and FGFA will get the improved version too.
Mig 35 can simply offer no capability that IAF would not get with MKI, or FGFA, so where is the use then?

 

[ramu]

Look at the Rafale price In FX-2 bid in Brazil it will come at $174 Million.

Focus should be on Gripen now.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Focus should be on Gripen now.

is gripen TVC capable

 

[SpArK]

SAAB has some projects of fitting the EJ230 in the future and ITP of Spain (partner of Eurojet GmbH) said that it has designed a TVC nozzle for the Gripen airframe. The problem with re-engining Gripen with EJ200 is logistics support and minor changes in the interface connections are necessary.

Saab has years ago already investigated the technical and operational
feasibility for re-engineering JAS 39 Gripen with the EJ200 engine.
Both Saab and EUROJET Turbo GmbH concluded that a re-engineering only
shall be considered if there is a customer demand available. From a
technical point of view, the EJ200 engine would fit into the engine bay
of JAS39 Gripen with minor changes applied to the interface connections.
The commercial feasibility of re-engineering JAS39 Gripen would be
supported, if required, by individual business case calculations.

The Thrust vectoring nozzle is offered as an optional item for any of
the EJ200 engine standards.

I hope this answer can help.


( i googled for answer)

 

[sancho]

is gripen TVC capable

No, besides the Mig 35 only the EF could offer this capability, but as I said, it won't be an important point anyway.

SAAB has some projects of fitting the EJ230 in the future and ITP of Spain (partner of Eurojet GmbH) said that it has designed a TVC nozzle for the Gripen airframe. The problem with re-engining Gripen with EJ200 is logistics support and minor changes in the interface connections are necessary.

Saab has years ago already investigated the technical and operational
feasibility for re-engineering JAS 39 Gripen with the EJ200 engine.
Both Saab and EUROJET Turbo GmbH concluded that a re-engineering only
shall be considered if there is a customer demand available. From a
technical point of view, the EJ200 engine would fit into the engine bay
of JAS39 Gripen with minor changes applied to the interface connections.
The commercial feasibility of re-engineering JAS39 Gripen would be
supported, if required, by individual business case calculations.

The Thrust vectoring nozzle is offered as an optional item for any of
the EJ200 engine standards.

I hope this answer can help.


( i googled for answer)

Hi Benny, Saab had a competition for an engine of the Gripen NG in the early 2000s and the same GE 414 and EJ 200 was offered and selected the US engine as the winner.
In that time the EJ 200 was only available for twin engine fighters, was new and not mature and TVC was only in the first development stages. Saab already used an earlier version of the GE 404 in the older Gripens, so they offered also more commonality, besides beeing cheaper. That's whay they took the US engine over the European counterpart and why the EJ 200 is not on offer for Gripen NG anymore.
However, that competition was good for the LCA MK2 now, because Eurojet already made the changes at the engine for single engine fighters, the engine is mature now and they even developed TVC. If we fund it we can have it for LCA, but it of course means additional costs. Will be interesting to see if MoD/IAF wants that. But even if not, for LCA the EJ engine is the best choice, lighter, ToT, possibly even SC and most important no airframe re-designs (bigger air intakes). With an good AESA, it would kick LCA MK2 on the same level with Gripen NG.

 

[KEETARP]

With an good AESA, it would kick LCA MK2 on the same level with Gripen NG.

Thats too early and to much speculation to assume it would .
Gripen NG has just left the testing board , and is a mature platform with demonstrated proof of capabilities .

 

[sancho]

Thats too early and to much speculation to assume it would .
Gripen NG has just left the testing board , and is a mature platform with demonstrated proof of capabilities .

Of course that's why I said could, but think about what is on offer and compare it with the Gripen.

Radar - Elta 2052 AESA vs. Vixen 1000
Engine - EJ 200 with 90 - 95kN thrust vs GE 414 with 98kN
Weight - 5.6t vs 7.1t
Missiles - Python V / Astra combo vs Iris-T/ AMRAAM
Weapon stations - 7+1 vs 7 or 8+1

In A2G the NG might have an advantage with more payload, but with this config, can you really say the MK2 would be clearly inferior?

 

[KEETARP]

Look at the comparison of Missile that sums up what i am saying .
Python5 is not even integrated , ASTRA is still away from operational capability while Gripen has fired AMRAAM/METEOR and ASRAAM/IRiS-T . You are comparing a Matured platform with Speculated specs , way too early .

Radar is not E/L 2052 , it will be LRDE product , 2052 has just been offered like Zhuk-AE . Its not final . Till then LRDE radar giving performance of VIXEN1000 is just speculation .

Engine is not finalized yet , you might very well see same Engine .
Let LCA2 leave drawing board , and you can compare them then.

What ever GripenNG we have seen is just a single demo NG tailored made for Indian tender , might be they will end up giving a machine of differnt calibre by the time LCA2 comes . Akin to Rafale block3 vs Block4.

That also brings a big question on LCA2 avionics suite , HUD whether frame-less or not .
What about Data-Links and their performance
IRST/FLIR performance .

Its just way too early to jump on conclusion that LCA2 will be at par with Gripen NG

 

[CONNAN]

MMRCA might be a “STRIKER”

BY: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

Sources in IAF have informed idrw.org that, while Indian air force is closely monitoring performance of every aircraft which have come to India for trials, but more closely to weapons testing of the aircraft’s which have been done in India and also in the vendor country. Indian air force wants to induct aircraft which are Multi-role which literally means that Aircraft can perform both role of a fighter aircraft and a ground attack aircraft.

Defence Expert Rajesh Sharma further explains that concept of Multi-role aircraft’s have only came in 1980’s period. Multi-role aircraft’s are designed to perform equally good both in Aerial combat and also in ground strike, but each aircraft is different in performance and design, Combination ratio of Aerial combat and Strike platform in each multirole aircraft will not be the same, Even when Sukhoi-30 mki is considered as Multi-role aircraft’s, but its superb aeronautic maneuverability and high AOA (Angle of Attack) makes it more closer to Air superiority fighter then a strike aircraft.

In our previous report we have mentioned that almost half the fleet of Mig-27 will be retired in next five years, and Mig-27 and Jaguar are backbone of the strike fleet in Indian air force. So now it seems that Aircraft with better Strike capability might gain some extra points in the MMRCA competition. Idrw.org don’t have any information in regards to which aircraft is doing better in this capacity but LEH testing with full payload was done to see which aircraft can also be able to carry highest payload in worst weather condition aircraft might encounter in India .

 

[Tejas-MkII]

One thing is clear , in the cover of this deal IAF get a excellent chance to fully analyse the most advance version of F-16: its signature,frequency,etc,etc......

And i am very much sure IAF won't waste this opportunity

 

[Dash]

Look at the comparison of Missile that sums up what i am saying .
Python5 is not even integrated , ASTRA is still away from operational capability while Gripen has fired AMRAAM/METEOR and ASRAAM/IRiS-T . You are comparing a Matured platform with Speculated specs , way too early .

Radar is not E/L 2052 , it will be LRDE product , 2052 has just been offered like Zhuk-AE . Its not final . Till then LRDE radar giving performance of VIXEN1000 is just speculation .

Engine is not finalized yet , you might very well see same Engine .
Let LCA2 leave drawing board , and you can compare them then.

What ever GripenNG we have seen is just a single demo NG tailored made for Indian tender , might be they will end up giving a machine of differnt calibre by the time LCA2 comes . Akin to Rafale block3 vs Block4.

That also brings a big question on LCA2 avionics suite , HUD whether frame-less or not .
What about Data-Links and their performance
IRST/FLIR performance .

Its just way too early to jump on conclusion that LCA2 will be at par with Gripen NG

Prateek -

Though its hurts a little indian feeling that gripen a better aircraft then LCA, but I will agree its true and you are right in mentioning that we are comparing a matured platform to a not "so" matured platform. Hence I accept that fact.

However, given the time MMRCA is consuming the first AC might be in for delivery by 2015 or so (which ever is selected), it can be speculated that LCA 2 might come up with similar capabilities, but yes it will take time to prove its meatle as far as its avionics are considered.

but we are saying all these as we dont know whats the time line of most if its compenent like Radar, Engine, even Astra A2A missile. and if ever we come to know the time line of fitting these systems to LCA then we can debate further on this topic if LCA is similar to Gripen. but now it nit the case.

However, Gripen will evolve to the stage of Gripen NG maximum, and looking at its body frame, avionics, single engine, and if they want to further develope fripen then it might go to a twin engine class.

So the possibility of Gripen in respect to MRCA is still low as may be after Gripen becomes Gripen NG, LCA2 will arrive with similar abilities..may take a year or two so further I guess.

Today LCA may not be close Gripen, but in future (not so longer) it will be similar to Gripen, but of course if they will improvise Gripen further then it might go to a different class altogather and comapring that with LCA may become irrelevant (Like twin engine and stuff).