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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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why buy mmrca in 2015 then
Because LCA won't give IAF alternative weapons or credible strike capability, while Indian industry won't benefit from ToT and offsets.


can we afford both in 2017
Otherwise we haven't shortlisted 2 x twin engine fighters and there are even thoughts about another one (AMCA), IAF/MoD must have some calculations about it right?
 
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Because LCA won't give IAF alternative weapons or credible strike capability, while Indian industry won't benefit from ToT and offsets.

ToT..ToT, we are in this business for decades.. We produced right from Mig-21s, Jaguars, MKIs from 1970s ..


Does it very helpful for the Indian Defense aviation Industry? looking at LCA's plight I'm very doubtful..

Meanwhile fingers are crossed to get the announcement.
 
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ToT..ToT, we are in this business for decades.. We produced right from Mig-21s, Jaguars, MKIs from 1970s ..


Does it very helpful for the Indian Defense aviation Industry? looking at LCA's plight I'm very doubtful..

Meanwhile fingers are crossed to get the announcement.

It might have, if we had used it the right way in the LCA project, by HAL taking the lead with their experience in the design and engine fields. But we went a different way and didn't and that's why that know how was lost mainly. Similarly, we build U209 subs under licence and instead a follow order for fast production of more, we went with new French subs. Again that know how was lost and we had to start from the scratch again.
As long as we make such key mistakes in our procurement and development policies, it ToT won't get us much, but it's a fact that it's a big requirement in the MMRCA and that's something that LCA can't give us.
 
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Govt to announce winner for 126-plus combat jets in 2012

The government is all set to announce the winner of the Indian Air Force (IAF) competition for 126-plus combat jets early in 2012.

Authoritative sources told India Strategic defence magazine (..:: India Strategic ::.. Home Page: The authoritative monthly on Defence and Strategic Affairs.) that the process was nearing completion but there were volumes of paperwork and the complicated costs involving Transfer of Technology (ToT), Offsets, Lifecycle Upgrades and Maintenance Support. Every detail was being looked into as this was India’s -- and the world’s -- single biggest defence tender yet in the 21st century.

The defence ministry has not set any deadline to the process, but it could be a New Year gift to the Indian Air Force as the announcement could come around mid-January.

Notably, the financial bids of the two finalists in the fray, European consortium EADS' Eurofighter and French Rafale, are valid only till Dec 31. Both of them could be asked to extend the validity of their offers for another few months.

However, even if the choice is made within this month, the winner would be asked for an extension to facilitate negotiations and finalisation.

It may be recalled that the IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne, had said Dec 18 in Bangalore that “by mid-December we should have a very good sense of who has been selected".

Understandably, by now, the IAF and the defence ministry should know who is winning -- or who is the lowest
-- but till all the voluminous paperwork has been examined to the last full stop, the files are Top Secret and literally “For Your Eyes Only” for those dealing with the subject.

The Air chief, who was speaking on the margins of a conference at the Institute of Aerospace Medicine, had also said: "I can't tell anything till the time we finish that work, as there are a lot of complicated calculations and figures that need to be checked."

Initially, when the tender was floated in August 2007, the estimated cost for 126 aircraft with two years’ support and weapons was $10 billion (Rs42,000 crores). Both the European finalists are known to be more expensive than the four others who lost out in the fray, and the defence ministry revised the estimate some time back in terms of the dollar and the euro.

The revision could be 30 to 40% of the pre-bid estimate, or say around to $13-14 billion. But this is only a guess as the winner has to help set up the manufacturing units in India and costing for this is not available. Neither of the two aircraft has been sold anywhere the way India wants.

There is also an option clause for another 63 aircraft. Their cost would be additional.

Meanwhile, the Indian rupee has been depreciating, but fluctuations are factored in all defence acquisitions and do not hinder the process. No fresh cabinet approval is required in such cases.

Although procedurally the lowest bidder, designated L-1 in the defence ministry jargon, should be the winner, the choice has to be approved by the government, specifically the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. It includes the ministers for finance (Pranab Mukherjee), Defence (AK Antony), home (P Chidambaram) and external affairs (SM Krishna).

Antony has stated that the selection would be on technical and financial merit, that is, on the basis of IAF's requirements and the price offered. The bid is submitted in two parts: technical and financial.

The IAF disqualified four others in the fray -- Sweden's Saab Gripen, Russia's MiG-35 and the US Boeing F-18 Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin F-16 Super Viper on the basis of points in its selection process.

As per the procedure, IAF is not supposed to give any grading like Number 1 or Number 2 to the finalists and both are equal for the defence ministry.

Nonetheless, the government is not bound to select the L-1 as the winner, even if it is much lower, as there is an over-riding clause in the tender. If in the national strategic calculus, the L-2 can be of strategic significance for India, then the CCS can go in for that aircraft.

In diplomatic circles, the deal is being described as France (Rafale) vs Europe (Germany, Britain, Spain and Italy make up the consortium that makes the Eurofighter).

Eurofighter’s supporters say that India could gain significant weight in the global arena through this deal.

The French say that they have supplied the best of their systems to India without any restrictions so far, and that it would be much easier to deal with a single country than the bureaucracies of four others over the life time of the aircraft -- 6,000 flying hours or 40 years as stipulated in the tender.

So who is the winner?
Procedurally, L-1.

Strategically, only the CCS, the cabinet secretary, the National Security Adviser, the foreign secretary and the defence secretary can decide.

Govt to announce winner for 126-plus combat jets in 2012 - World - DNA
 
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Found this very funny and intresting picture for
rafale mid life upgrade
on net.

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transformer_by_kyudosix-d4bpbxy.jpg

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Enjoy.
 
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UK, Italy, Germany, Spain pitch for Eurofighter - Indian Express

Days before the government is set to finalise the winner of the multi-billion dollar contract to purchase new generation fighters for the Air Force, four heads of governments from the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain have jointly pitched for the Eurofighter in a confidential letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh by lending “political support” to the high-profile commercial contract.

The Eurofighter is in a face-off with France’s Rafale for the race to provide 126 fighters to the Air Force, that is grappling with a serious shortage of combat aircraft. A decision on the matter is expected within the next few weeks, with Defence Ministry officials indicating that the winner would be announced by the first week of January.

In a joint “confidential” missive to the Prime Minister sent last week, British PM David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel — along with Italian and Spanish Prime Ministers — have said the EADS’ Eurofighter is an “excellent aircraft that stands on its own merit”.
The joint letter has also welcomed India as the “fifth partner country” in jointly developing the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), in the event of Eurofighter being chosen for the contract. The four PMs have also reaffirmed the “security of supply” in the case of Eurofighter Typhoon.

This joint letter, sources said, is “unprecedented” since the four countries have lent strategic support to the commercial deal ahead of the final decision. They are pitted against the French government-backed Rafale.

It may be recalled that US President Barack Obama had also lobbied for the US aircraft with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during his visit to India last year and followed it up with a letter highlighting this contract as being important to his administration. However, the bids of two US companies, along with the Russian and Swedish firms, were rejected after technical evaluation in April this year.
 
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^^^ this kind of lobbying will do little as MoD/GoI (especially in this climate) Are keen to keep things free of political interference and any hint of corruption. MoD has public ally stated multiple times that the final decision will be made purely on merit/cost and free from political considerations, for once I'm inclined to believe MoD will be true to their word.
 
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UK, Italy, Germany, Spain pitch for Eurofighter - Indian Express

Days before the government is set to finalise the winner of the multi-billion dollar contract to purchase new generation fighters for the Air Force, four heads of governments from the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain have jointly pitched for the Eurofighter in a confidential letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh by lending “political support” to the high-profile commercial contract.

The Eurofighter is in a face-off with France’s Rafale for the race to provide 126 fighters to the Air Force, that is grappling with a serious shortage of combat aircraft. A decision on the matter is expected within the next few weeks, with Defence Ministry officials indicating that the winner would be announced by the first week of January.

In a joint “confidential” missive to the Prime Minister sent last week, British PM David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel — along with Italian and Spanish Prime Ministers — have said the EADS’ Eurofighter is an “excellent aircraft that stands on its own merit”.
The joint letter has also welcomed India as the “fifth partner country” in jointly developing the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), in the event of Eurofighter being chosen for the contract. The four PMs have also reaffirmed the “security of supply” in the case of Eurofighter Typhoon.

This joint letter, sources said, is “unprecedented” since the four countries have lent strategic support to the commercial deal ahead of the final decision. They are pitted against the French government-backed Rafale.

It may be recalled that US President Barack Obama had also lobbied for the US aircraft with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during his visit to India last year and followed it up with a letter highlighting this contract as being important to his administration. However, the bids of two US companies, along with the Russian and Swedish firms, were rejected after technical evaluation in April this year.


ah ha ha ha this is epic...head of governments assuring about the quality of the aircraft to our prime minister. Both the parties does not know nothing about its technicals
 
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bad news.....
this is what happens when you streatch the deal toooooooooooooooo long.
 
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bad news.....
this is what happens when you streatch the deal toooooooooooooooo long.


Pissed off of it... I think govt should scrap the deal and go for
1. Make 50 more Su30MKI at Pune and order 50 from Russia
2. Order 50 more MiG29SMT from Russia
3. Open 3 Assembly line for LCA , make 50+ LCA per year
4. Acquire more number of SAMs and Ballistic missiles.

I think we can do all this in same price what we are paying for MMRCA.
 
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