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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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recently my eager turned to laughter when i hear about mmrca:partay:

Let's hope the laughter will turn to joy again, when we took a final decision and it will be a really "happy new year" for India!
 
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o brothers year 2012 has begun..when will this be announced,?

As soon as possible, but we have no other option than wait. It's not an easy task to evaluate such detailed offers and negotiate to get the best out of the deal.
 
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India running out of money, no more MRCA


Can you please clone some Eurofighter and Dassault for us.

---------- Post added at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------

India running out of money, no more MRCA


Can you please clone some Eurofighter and Dassault for us.
 
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The Rafale: analysis of the tender in India

December 30, 2011

If France can no longer afford its power, India is! Never geostrategic equation, industrial and technological were also in favor of export of the Rafale in the case of the Indian market.
The displacement of the center of gravity of the world to Asia led India, one of the two major economies of the continent to "emerge" as the strategic plan. Its regional environment is fragile, as marked by the conflict with Pakistan and the rivalry with China. Faced with the Middle Kingdom, more powerful economically, politically and militarily, India is working to stay in the competition for influence in Asia and to counter the Sino-Pakistan axis. But India was also the twenty-first century new ambitions: it intends to take advantage of opportunities created by the global crisis to increase its status in the international arena. The 'instinctive preference "of India for a multipolar world led him to manage its relationship with a diverse set of powers with greater flexibility. Even the spectacular rapprochement with the United States, which allowed him to enjoy a special status in the nuclear-alliance does not mean that New Delhi has no intention of being manipulated by Washington in a policy of containment of China and refused some proposals for U.S. military cooperation. Israel, but also Russia, with which India has partnered for the Raptor fighter plane of the fifth generation are major suppliers of armaments. Europe is seen as a useful partner in the business plan.
The new geostrategic environment has led India to revise its defense policy and to move from a non-interventionist tradition, beyond its direct sphere of influence, to a more offensive doctrine, which should not be limited by capability issues. For evidence, a defense budget growing steadily, especially since the attacks in Bombay in 2008, and a liberalization of the defense industry for the sake of quality and performance. Within a decade of arms imports to the tune of $ 50M will place the country to the rank of world's largest importer.

The renewal of military aircraft of Indian Air
It is in this context that India launched in 2007 the vast tender M-MRCA (MediumMultiRoleCombatAircraft) to renew an aging fleet largely composed of fighters of Soviet-designed Su-30, MIG -29 and Mi-35.Ce huge contract covers the purchase of 126 fighter planes for a total of $ 12 million, of which 108 will be made at the local level in partnership with Indian companies. Indeed, the essential condition of the tender is technology transfer, compensation amounting to 50% of the value of the contract to allow India to develop its own military and aerospace industry to build a modern air force and independent. The Americans proposed the F-16 Lockheed Martin and Boeing F/A-18E/F, the European EADS Eurofighter Typhoon (developed by the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Spain), France, Sweden and the Rafale, the Gripen. Finally, the Russians have tried their luck with the new MiG-29K and MiG-35.En New Delhi announced in April that only the Rafale and the Eurofighter are competing. Note the specificity of the tender Indian: for reasons of domestic politics, the fight against corruption, it is sequenced in two phases clearly separated, the first purely technical and the second on aggregate supply. This decoupling also criticized by some Indian experts, that only the choice of the IAF has prevailed. To demonstrate the involvement of non-policy at this stage, the United States were informed of their misfortune by their military attaché in New Delhi, itself informed by the Indian military.

Fighter omnirole 4th generation, its versatility is its major asset and is fully operational needs of the Indian Air Force, given the vastness of the Indian airspace. Able to fill all the roles of fighter aircraft in one mission, it can ensure the safety of the national airspace and conduct missions outside. A trump card that could prove decisive when the withdrawal of Western forces from Afghanistan in Pakistan will recover the strategic depth of his dreams in front of his rival. On the other hand, planned to operate from its conception as aboard aircraft carriers, it will allow India to take a qualitative leap forward in securing its maritime areas, which have become vital to the supply of raw materials to a economy bordering on double-digit growth. Unique technological success, it can carry a full range of advanced weapons, to the strategic nuclear strike with F3.Enfin standard, its capabilities are unmatched changing to meet the challenge of reducing the technology gap with potential adversaries .
Moreover, the Rafale has almost always been ranked first on the technical and operational in the previous tender, but it was not yet "battle proven", a label earned by its commitments in Afghanistan and Libya, Operation also more publicized. On the other hand, cooperation with Dassault is old: with the purchase of 80 Mirage 2000 in the 80's, India was the first export customer of M 2000 and the modernization of the fleet in the industry comes from be finalized between the two governments. The life of an aircraft like the Rafale is 40 years, New Delhi will have the same security upgrades for the Mirage, which is less guaranteed with the Eurofighter, the final business plan EADS presaging a withdrawal medium-term combat aircraft.

India at the Crossroads
Finally, bilateral relations between France and India are excellent: the strategic partnership in 1998 was reiterated during the visit of Alain Juppé in October. France has consistently supported India's aspirations to a seat on the UN Security and better participation in international forums G8, G20 ...
Given these strengths, the denigration of the Rafale, which is crucial when playing the global trade negotiations is truly amazing. Building on its past failures to export it as sterile supplies are unjustified criticism. The image of a France of a Gaullist pride anachronistic producing technology so sophisticated that nobody wants, and preferably within a national framework, to be sure it's even more expensive, is totally wrong. France has not built Rafale in a European framework for its operational requirements, particularly for an aircraft carrier, was different: it was a war in advance. The Eurofighter was a money pit and it has been referred to by the Court of Auditors UK an increase of 75% of its unit cost. He is currently more expensive than the Rafale! For countries like Korea and Singapore, France could not fight against the military protection that guaranteed them the power of the United States. The Anglo-Saxon influence has been pregnant for Saudi Arabia which has replaced by the Eurofighter Tornado.
Hope that the Indians understand themselves important political benefit at the image of the power of their country that would symbolize the Rafale.

Le Rafale : analyse de l


A good analysis, which sums up the reasons why I prefer the Rafale for Indian forces too!
It is technically more capable than the EF, but at the same time more cost-effective too. Can be used by IAF and IN, we have a long term and reliable experience with the French and Dassault in particular and even from the industrial and political point of view, their offer isn't bad at all.
They simply offer the best package of advantages to India and that's what MMRCA is about, getting as much advantages as possible in return for our money!
 
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Le Rafale : analyse de l


A good analysis, which sums up the reasons why I prefer the Rafale for Indian forces too!
It is technically more capable than the EF, but at the same time more cost-effective too. Can be used by IAF and IN, we have a long term and reliable experience with the French and Dassault in particular and even from the industrial and political point of view, their offer isn't bad at all.
They simply offer the best package of advantages to India and that's what MMRCA is about, getting as much advantages as possible in return for our money!

I disagree, nothing particularly new in that article. As far as it being technically more capable than the EF, the time for that stage in the MMRCA selection has long passed, what is now being decided is which of the two is cost effective? I have a different take on this, one of the UK's minister was quoted as saying that giving aid to India was important because it may then buy the EF. Interesting thought actually when you consider it more clearly. The UK & maybe Germany may end up funding the EF's purchase cost with large donations from the aid budget (if you assume that it offsets the massive cost of the MMRCA with essential money for development projects). Over any length of time it will actually indirectly reduce the fiscal burden of the procurement, really funny when you see it that way. The MMRCA being funded by the very countries that are trying so desperately to sell it to us.:lol: At the very least, this is a factor that cannot be ignored. Rafale is at a big disadvantage when this variable is added to the matrix.
 
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I disagree, nothing particularly new in that article. As far as it being technically more capable than the EF, the time for that stage in the MMRCA selection has long passed

Which doesn't change the fact that the Rafale offered in MMRCA is more capable that the EF offered in MMRCA. Only with additional upgrades that we have to pay extra, it will be comparable and IAF included these additional upgrades in their evaluation, otherwise EF couldn't be shortlisted.


what is now being decided is which of the two is cost effective? I have a different take on this, one of the UK's minister was quoted as saying that giving aid to India was important because it may then buy the EF.

Which is already beeing included in the bid the EF consortium provided to India and which is still quoted to be at least 5% more expensive than the Rafale bid. Add the upgrade costs and the higher operational costs and you know which fighter is more cost-effective, however, that is not the important point as we know:

Nonetheless, the government is not bound to select the L-1 as the winner, even if it is much lower, as there is an over-riding clause in the tender. If in the national strategic calculus, the L-2 can be of strategic significance for India, then the CCS can go in for that aircraft.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-430.html#post2429150


I said from the begining that not the unit cost will decide who wins, but the cost of the whole package of the fighter, the licence production, the ToT and other benefits that comes with the deal. If the EF can offer a very good industrial package, at reduced costs specially for India (because we basically by the T3B fighters the EF partners originally ordered), it has a chance to win. Purely by technical or cost requirements of the fighter, that's not possible.
 
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Folks, as a part of my job, we closed a large Industrial equipment contract in December 2011. It was worth couple of hundred million dollars. The paperwork for that contract was 3 boxes which filled up the trunk of a family station wagon, addendums were the same amount of extra paperwork and took us (a complete organization) 3-4 months of document preparation, screening by customer and pre-negotiations work...

Cut to MMRCA, this is a deal worth $15-20Billion, involves offset contracts, gazillions of moving parts - both in the machines and the contracts, bazillions of spare part contracts, training contracts, detailed metrics to standardize the quotes to a common ground etc etc etc... Given that it has just been a quarter since the bids have opened up... it will take time...

Point is... when MOD said that they will finalize the contract in a few weeks, there is no way that they ór anyone else could have been sure of the 'exact' period it will take, it was the best 'guess' that they could have given... IMHO, delay of a few weeks or months is not a big deal... Let's not loose sleep over it (talking to myself here)
 
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it will be disappointing to see the results postponed again,
Be prepared for that too...

i am just hoping for a pongal surprise..:partay:
 
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I hope to see a flypast by the winners on Jan 26th
 
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