Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy

I checked with Olybrius recently on the open deliveries of Rafale M and he confirmed that still 7 are about to come by 2015/16. That means that only 8 Rafale Air Force versions will be build in the same time, that could be diverted to an export customer and that another 10 would need to be taken out of operational service to provide a full squad.
In comparision, EF T3A delivery just started this year and Germany alone will get 26 fighters till the end of 2017, which shows the advantage the EF has in terms of early delivery and countering falling squad numbers.

AFAIK Dassualt have said that they can quite easily ramp-up production if required by an export customer. Desolate purposely slowed down production so as to keep the Rafale production line open for as long as possible, there is plenty of spare capacity there.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Economic ties top agenda as Modi meets Cameron, EU chief, Abe (Roundup) | Business Standard News

Standard stuff, the leaders of both sides need to make a push for their economic interests, if they didn't there would be hell to pay at home.

 

[DrSomnath999]

STORM WARNING by MIchal Fiszer

an old article from journal of electronic defence june 2005

i am posting some good part only not entire thing

 

[DrSomnath999]

 

[C130]

View attachment 151629 View attachment 151631

I think SK did right by picking the F-15K over the Rafale,Eurofighter, and Su-35

 

[Pichkari]

@DrSomnath999 Is fso of any use of in the era of aesa radars?
Most modern aesa radars will detect rafale from a distance of 90 km right?
So how fso comes into play??

 

[sancho]

AFAIK Dassualt have said that they can quite easily ramp-up production if required by an export customer. Desolate purposely slowed down production so as to keep the Rafale production line open for as long as possible, there is plenty of spare capacity there.

Only if reasonable additional numbers will be ordered and with a certain time. It takes around 3 years to build a Rafale, so even if they increase the production next year, they would get a higher rate only in 2 or 3 years. So that's working only if the have to produce fighters for France, Qatar and more for India and even then they couldn't get similar numbers of fighters till 2017, like EFs would be available. On that front the EF wins clearly today.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Only if reasonable additional numbers will be ordered and with a certain time. It takes around 3 years to build a Rafale, so even if they increase the production next year, they would get a higher rate only in 2 or 3 years. So that's working only if the have to produce fighters for France, Qatar and more for India and even then they couldn't get similar numbers of fighters till 2017, like EFs would be available. On that front the EF wins clearly today.

But considering only the first 18 are meant to be made outside of India, this is all rather irrelevant is it not sir? In both cases the IAF would be getting their new birds (EFT or Rafale) around the same time (2017). i would agree EFT had an advantage were, say, 60 units to be made abroad.

 

[sancho]

But considering only the first 18 are meant to be made outside of India, this is all rather irrelevant is it not sir?

Depends on if 126 will be ordered or as even Dassault officials stated, 126 + optionals, because then more than 18 will be ordered directly from the winning vendor to counter the falling squad numbers. Then it is relevent how many squads can be procured faster and it might even make a cost difference, since we would order more Rafales from Dassault, while we could order EF T3As directly from the partner orders, probably even at reduced costs.

 

[Last Samuri]

When is this ridiculous mmrca acctually happening.
Signature and delivery

 

[DrSomnath999]

@DrSomnath999 Is fso of any use of in the era of aesa radars?
Most modern aesa radars will detect rafale from a distance of 90 km right?
So how fso comes into play??

Hmm

IRST (long wave) likes PIRATE/FSO/SKYWARD-G would be very crucial in future warfare

why??

1) it would be very handy against stealth targets as current X band aesa radars cant detect a stealth plane like F22 greater than 60/70km meanwhile IRST can be very effective against stealth planes as planes own IR emission due
to air friction cant be neglected at all plus jet exhausts add to that

2)All radar can be jammed whther high band/low band but IRST is unjammable it cant be jammed ,plus it is a passive means of detection it wont expose your position to your enemies which radar do

plus new gen of GaN based jammer would make jamming more powerful so IRST (LONG WAVE) would be very
crucial

FSO -IT of current rafale lack IRST channel but indian MMRCA would be having IRST channel thats confirmed
their range is ideally 80-90km though max range says greater than 100km in brochures but 90km is also sufficent

BUt for exploitation of meteor's full kinematic range IRST detection range is insufficent so AESA radar use is mandatory .

CHEERS

 

[Pichkari]

Hmm

IRST (long wave) likes PIRATE/FSO/SKYWARD-G would be very crucial in future warfare

why??

1) it would be very handy against stealth targets as current X band aesa radars cant detect a stealth plane like F22 greater than 60/70km meanwhile IRST can be very effective against stealth planes as planes own IR emission due
to air friction cant be neglected at all plus jet exhausts add to that

2)All radar can be jammed whther high band/low band but IRST is unjammable it cant be jammed ,plus it is a passive means of detection it wont expose your position to your enemies which radar do

plus new gen of GaN based jammer would make jamming more powerful so IRST (LONG WAVE) would be very
crucial

FSO -IT of current rafale lack IRST channel but indian MMRCA would be having IRST channel thats confirmed
their range is ideally 80-90km though max range says greater than 100km in brochures but 90km is also sufficent

BUt for exploitation of meteor's full kinematic range IRST detection range is insufficent so AESA radar use is mandatory .

CHEERS

I still cant understand its use In combat.Even if the rafale doesnt switch on its radar,its still going to be detected by enemy radars.
Only scenario i can think of where fso will be helpful is when the enemy has a radar detection range of less than 90-100km.

Another question sir.

Does spectra also help in passive detection??
If so how?is it also based on ir technology??
The explanation in articles is very vague.

 

[DrSomnath999]

I still cant understand its use In combat.

sorry !!

but you rather tell me how should i explain you so that you can understand clearly it's role in combat becoz my prevoius post explains clearly it's role in future combat .

so i dont know in which better way i should explain you so that you could understand it's use in combat

Even if the rafale doesnt switch on its radar,its still going to be detected by enemy radars.

Rafale's uses highly classified "Active cancellation tech " which is confirmed by even french also

New Avionics For Gripen, Typhoon And Rafale | Defense content from Aviation Week
which masks the radar echo of the rafale plane against enemy radar so the radar will be unable to detect the aircraft Spectra is protecting.”

it is some sort of software based advanced stealth tech

http://cfile208.uf.daum.net/original/150B9A3F4E0464D729FF12
courtesy-MARC SAMPAIX

SPECTRA is a battle-proven and very effective tool, and there is even some evidence that it was the only platform that performed well against an SA-10B during the NATO exercise MACE XIII in April 2012 in Slovakia.

MACE XIII against SA-10 -aka S300-

plus in future plans are there for a semistealth variant of this plane if india can also opt for it in it's MLU program if it wants

Only scenario i can think of where fso will be helpful is when the enemy has a radar detection range of less than 90-100km.

loll at you man!!

ok !! dont take it personal buddy

here is an interesting info i would like to tell that Captor M whose detection range boast of 160-180km , were reduced to meagre 9km against intense jamming environment

http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1990/1990 - 2730.PDF

so you can guess what a joke it would be when you claimed some thing like this

"Only scenario i can think of where fso will be helpful is when the enemy has a radar detection range of less than 90-100km"

plus in future Rafale would be having GaN based jamming

Another question sir.

Does spectra also help in passive detection??
If so how?is it also based on ir technology??
The explanation in articles is very vague.

Of course SPectra is the key factor in passive detection coupled with FSO & MICA IR missile they give very good coverage of passive detection

You are aksing a question which has a big answer
for begineers like you read this

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...teur/AUTRES_DOCS/Fox_three/Fox_Three_nr_1.pdf

1st you need the to understand the basics of RWR then only you can understand the role RWR in spectra of passive detection against enemy planes

but one more thing when an RWR have inferometric antennaes it can also be used for targeting

spectra RWR has both the capabilites inferometric antennaes plus angular localazion of target with precision less than 1 degree

DDM NG is part of SPECTRA which is also an IRST based PAssive MAWS capable of targeting also
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/ddm_ng_ds.pdf

PLUS if you still want to learn more

there is thread in the internet called rafale's mini enclyopedia & i dont know who posted this thread may be you should read this thread
for more
rafale's mini enclyopedia - Google Search

CHEERS

 

[Pichkari]

@DrSomnath999 thanks.Thats a lot of stuff to read.I'll go through it and get back to you.

 

[DrSomnath999]

@DrSomnath999 thanks.Thats a lot of stuff to read.I'll go through it and get back to you.

now dont expect i would say you are welcome



though you are welcome but only sometimes when i would feel it's right to answer your queries.

i dont have time to explain bit by bit everything about rafale better use that rafale's mini encylopedia thread to improve your knowledge about rafale

CHEERS