Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

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At One-Month Mark, PM Gives His Team Three Focus Areas

In response to repeated alerts from the armed forces about outdated and inadequate equipment, the PM has held a series of consultations with Defence Minister Arun Jaitley and the chiefs of the Army, Air Force and Navy. They have been asked to list in order of priority which weapons they need; a plan that outlines how to best use funds to modernise the armed forces has also been ordered.

We will soon be hearing something about this deal after the budget

 

[atlssa]

No Rafale for Qatar, at least not yet!

UPDATE 2-France wins Qatar tram deal, discusses Rafale jets| Reuters
Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:58pm BST

PARIS, June 23 (Reuters) - French conglomerates Alstom and Vinci signed a 2 billion euro ($2.72 billion) deal with Qatar on Monday to build a tram system in the future Lusail City, while the two countries also discussed a possible defence contract.

The deal, which will see the light rail system starting to operate in 2018-20, was signed in front of journalists during a visit to Paris by Qatar's emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani.

One of the Gulf's largest real estate developments, Lusail City is expected to house up to 200,000 people and contain commercial districts including the $275 million Marina Mall project, 22 hotels, four islands and two golf courses.

The estimated $45 billion development will also feature the 80,000-seat Lusail Stadium, where the championship match of the 2022 World Cup soccer tournament will be played.

Qatar has been under fire for its treatment of migrant workers, many of whom are reported to have died on the country's infrastructure projects, but has announced stricter measures for contractors involved in building work for the 2022 tournament.

Asked whether France had raised the issue of worker conditions during the emir's visit, a French official said, "We talk about everything with Qatar. There are no forbidden topics."

Leaders of the two countries also discussed the possible sale of French Rafale fighter jets, built by Dassault Aviation , to Qatar but there was no immediate conclusion.

"They discussed it. Negotiations are continuing," a source close to French President Francois Hollande said following a meeting held during the emir's first official visit to France.

Qatar is planning a significant increase in the size of its air force as the energy-rich Gulf state forges a wider international role after taking part in the 2011 Libya conflict.

Its air force operates a squadron of 12 Dassault Mirage-2000 jets, but is now looking to buy 72 jets in two equal tranches.

"Qatar has always chosen French technology for its armed forces," Hollande said in a speech toasting the visiting Qatari head of state before an official dinner.

The emir made no reference to the Rafale during his remarks, delivered in French.
"FRENCH STRONGHOLD"

France is anxious to secure its first export buyer for the Rafale as it also tries to close a long-awaited $15 billion deal with India for a purchase of 126 of the multi-role jets.

In Qatar, Dassault Aviation is competing with the Eurofighter Typhoon - offered by a European consortium of Airbus Group, BAE Systems and Finmeccanica - and the F-15 fighter built by U.S. planemaker Boeing.

"Traditionally, Qatar is a French stronghold in arms exports but they have been buying from elsewhere," said Douglas Barrie, senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, noting speculation that Qatar might split the order and go for a mixed fleet despite incurring extra training costs.

"I would be surprised if the French walk away from this empty-handed. Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that someone else gets all 72 aircraft? No, but unlikely," he said.

Qatar is among a number of Gulf states looking to renew air power but also seen as playing a waiting game with Washington for the newer Lockheed Martin F-35.

The United States has not so far decided whether to offer its latest radar-evading combat jet to the Gulf, but arms sales experts say it could become available to the region about five years after Israel receives its first F-35 fighter jets in 2016.

U.S. policy guidelines call for Israel to maintain a competitive military edge.

"The key question is whether the Americans will release the F-35 and if so when," Barrie said.

That, he said, would influence whether Qatar feels it can buy something in the interim and then make the case in Washington to release the F-35 into the region. Even then, competition for any interim deals is expected to be fierce. (Editing by Maya Nikolaeva, Alexandria Sage and David Evans)

 

[sancho]

Sir, but LCA delays are not acceptable,

True, but the project is too important for us to let it go, since it will set the base for our aero industry for the future. Even if delayed, we gained a lot of important and useful know how, we now have to learn how to fix the problems. The MK1 is already under production and after FOC should be reasonably good for air policing and CAS roles. The Mig 35 won't come for sure, for numerous reasons of the fighter itself, but MMRCA is meant to be the alternative for LCA and if MK2 would not be inducted, it would only mean more of the MMRCA winner and not to add a different type of fighter.

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Indian Air Force to purchase 200 MRCA's

Date: 22/11/2005
Agency: Various Agencies
Topics: india indian air force defense military

India will increase the number of Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) it plans to buy to 200, opening the door for more than one supplier, said Air Force and Ministry of Defence officials.

The Indian Cabinet Committee on Security, which clears major defense programs, in October accepted the Air Force's proposal to increase the number from the original 126, for which a request for information already has been sent to overseas vendors. The value of the original contract was $5 billion; the revised plan brings the combined value of one or more contracts to $8.5 billion.

A senior Defence Ministry official said the Air Force plans to phase out 60 of its 140 Jaguar aircraft in the next five years, by which time MMRCAs would start arriving. The additional planes will replace more Jaguars, aging MiG-23s, and some squadrons of MiG-27s, an Air Force official said.

The official said the first batch of MMRCAs could be supplied by one vendor, and perhaps the second lot could be made in India under licensed production from the same or a different vendor.

A request for information for the initial 126 planes was sent to Lockheed Martin for its F-16, Saab for the JAS 39 Gripen, Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RAC MiG) for the MiG-29 SMT, and Dassault Aviation for the Mirage 2000-5. Boeing also has offered its F/A-18 aircraft for consideration, as has RAC MiG for the MiG-35.

The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is due to replace the services MiG-21 combat aircraft, but that program is more than a decade behind schedule. The LCA is slated for limited production by 2007 or 2008.

Defence Ministry sources said it will be difficult for the government to choose among the four vendors because political and strategic considerations must be weighed in addition to technical factors.

The sources noted that the move to buy up to 200 MMRCAs would certainly ease the governments burden, as more then one type of MMRCA could be selected.

They said the Air Force favors the French Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, but cannot ignore the firm from Russia, which is the largest supplier of arms and equipment to the Indian Defense Forces. However, it has been a year since Moscow and India have penned an arms deal. Russia has insisted India first sign an intellectual property rights accord on defense equipment and weapons, which would not allow Indias Russian-built weaponry to be upgraded or fitted with equipment from a third country.

Another consideration is that India and the United States have entered into a new strategic partnership, with Washington agreeing to provide nuclear and space technology for civilian use. The purchase of the F-16 or F/A-18 would signal the beginning of a new defense relationship between India and the United States, said Surya Pal Singh, retired Indian Air Force air commodore.

The purchase of two types of MMRCAs not only will help speed up acquisition of the aircraft, it also may help the Air Force acquire American aircraft, which have been offered with the latest radar, Singh said.

India wants as part of the MMRCA package the U.S. Active Electronically Scanned Array radar as well as new-generation missiles, the Defence Ministry official said.

After all this is the Total Size of the IAF increasing specially in quantity or squadrons ??????

 

[Abingdonboy]

After all this is the Total Size of the IAF increasing specially in quantity or squadrons ??????

Indeed. Currently the fighter SQD strength is around 33, the IAF's sanctioned fighter SQD strength is 42 which it should achieve by 2022 and by 2030 they will have 50 fighter SQDs.

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Indeed. Currently the fighter SQD strength is around 33, the IAF's sanctioned fighter SQD strength is 42 which it should achieve by 2022 and by 2030 they will have 50 fighter SQDs.

Soooo what u are basically trying to say is that IAF is once again very close in gaining edge over the PAF ???

 

[Abingdonboy]

Soooo what u are basically trying to say is that IAF is once again very close in gaining edge over the PAF ???

Did it ever lose it?

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Did it ever lose it?

Well !!! I was hearing official news on Pakistani media and almost on every Pakistani paper and including defence.pk claiming that PAF for the first time ever gained air superiority over IAF .... In terms of Combat capability specially and many more other features about which I really don,t remember much ...

 

[Agent_47]

Well !!! I was hearing official news on Pakistani media and almost on every Pakistani paper and including defence.pk claiming that PAF for the first time ever gained air superiority over IAF .... In terms of Combat capability specially and many more other features about which I really don,t remember much ...

Other than eating that garbage , Have you ever thought is it right? is your media unbiased ? Is it possible when IAF modernization budget is more than the whole budget of your armed force ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well !!! I was hearing official news on Pakistani media and almost on every Pakistani paper and including defence.pk claiming that PAF for the first time ever gained air superiority over IAF .... In terms of Combat capability specially and many more other features about which I really don,t remember much ...

I would ask you to consider your sources and look at the facts for yourself. The IAF has the edge in both quantity and quality. The fact is the IAF's edge has diminished in the past few years as its SQD strength has fallen to a 33 SQD low but from here it will recover to its sanctioned strength of 42 SQDs within the decade.

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Other than eating that garbage , Have you ever thought is it right? is your media unbiased ? Is it possible when IAF modernization budget is more than the whole budget of your armed force ?

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ????

 

[kbd-raaf]

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ????

Since when were Mirage 2000-5s 'poor quality'? They're at par with the block 52 F-16s which are the most advanced that the PAF operate. We also operate way more of the 2000/5s than the PAF operate block 52s. We also operate the MiG-29 UPG, which are also at par if not superior to your latest F-16s.

Forgetting the 280 Su-30MKIs, which is the best the IAF operate which are mostly deployed to the Chinese border.

The PAF also operate the F-7 which is a Chinese MiG-21 copy.

The JF-17s are meant for point defense only and wont stand much of a chance of against IAF frontline fighters. They'll be used against MiG-27s and Jaguars on bombing runs whilst given top cover by the F-16s.

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

I would ask you to consider your sources and look at the facts for yourself. The IAF has the edge in both quantity and quality. The fact is the IAF's edge has diminished in the past few years as its SQD strength has fallen to a 33 SQD low but from here it will recover to its sanctioned strength of 42 SQDs within the decade.

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ???? It looks like u have now confessed in your last line about the reality proving that I am making sense and m logical making claims on facts , Thank U

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Since when were Mirage 2000-5s 'poor quality'? They're at par with the block 52 F-16s the PAF operate.

Since when were Mirage 2000-5s 'poor quality'? They're at par with the block 52 F-16s which are the most advanced that the PAF operate. We also operate way more of the 2000/5s than the PAF operate block 52s. We also operate the MiG-29 UPG, which are also at par if not superior to your latest F-16s.

Forgetting the 280 Su-30MKIs, which is the best the IAF operate which are mostly deployed to the Chinese border.

The PAF also operate the F-7 which is a Chinese MiG-21 copy.

The JF-17s are meant for point defense only and wont stand much of a chance of against IAF frontline fighters. They'll be used against MiG-27s and Jaguars on bombing runs whilst given top cover by the F-16s.

Since when were Mirage 2000-5s 'poor quality'? They're at par with the block 52 F-16s which are the most advanced that the PAF operate. We also operate way more of the 2000/5s than the PAF operate block 52s. We also operate the MiG-29 UPG, which are also at par if not superior to your latest F-16s.

Forgetting the 280 Su-30MKIs, which is the best the IAF operate which are mostly deployed to the Chinese border.

The PAF also operate the F-7 which is a Chinese MiG-21 copy.

The JF-17s are meant for point defense only and wont stand much of a chance of against IAF frontline fighters. They'll be used against MiG-27s and Jaguars on bombing runs whilst given top cover by the F-16s.

Those F-7s U R talking about R either grounded , retired or are about to be retired and to be replaced by the JF 17s ,,,,,, what will be your answer to me ( as I a lay man ) listening to Pakistani media which according to u is not authentic then makes sure that he should also consult INDIAN media which happens to Claim that the IAF lost its edge over PAF in terms of combat ratio only , not in numbers , I repeat not in Numbers ... TRUST me if our media is irresponsible then they may have a reason to cheer its PUBLIC , what will be the INDIAN medias reason ???

 

[kbd-raaf]

Those F-7s U R talking about R either grounded , retired or are about to be retired and to be replaced by the JF 17s ,,,,,, what will be your answer to me ( as I a lay man ) listening to Pakistani media which according to u is not authentic then makes sure that he should also consult INDIAN media which happens to Claim that the IAF lost its edge over PAF in terms of combat ratio only , not in numbers , I repeat not in Numbers ... TRUST me if our media is irresponsible then they may have a reason to cheer its PUBLIC , what will be the INDIAN medias reason ???

I need a translator to understand you, sorry, I'm out.