Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

Sancho, I dont know how old you but Im continuously reading about this MMRCA for last 4-5 years. Long time before, around 2.5 years before, when US’s players jumped in this MMRCA, the very first thing happened was, Rafale was kicked out from this contest without even evaluation, but through the diplomatic efforts. But IAF then interfered and Rafale again backed after just 2-3 months and now Rafale has won the contest.............. for the diplomatic tigers to win this MMRCA deal, for what US had bet its every credibility to put their beloved Super Hornet for MMRCA, by the very first day it had been clear to me since that incident that if they want this MMRCA deal then they had to deal with Rafale only . too much lobbying was done by US's diplomats during last over 2 years to get this MMRCA but they couldn't

Too old man, too old and I have to disagree with again! Rafale was never kicked out like you said, because there was never any official statement on that from GoI, MoD or even IAF. All we heared were a report "placed" in the news quoting an "unnamed source". There was not even any statement send to Dassault nor to French government, btw the wiki leakes reports from Brazil even confirms that the US had no involvement in that, because they didn't had a clue about these news either wanted to get more infos about it.
When you count all this together, you have to realise that it was the other way around and Indian government mostlikely put pressure on the French to get more access on technical details they wanted to evaluate.
Similarly, the government of UAE is constantly feeding the news with false infos about Rafale not beeing technically good enough (although they agreed to nearly all specs that the French forces now will have), that they will evaluate F16s, F18SH, F15s and the EF (allthough none of them will buy back the M2K-9s and only the EF might be able to carry the Black Shaheen cruise missiles). The only reason for such false news is, increase the public pressure on the manufacturer or the manufacturing country and get more advantages. We might get what we wanted before the trials, the UAE defenitely get more side advantages which they wanted.
Btw, the selection of Rafale in India now gives France and Dassault to turn it around and put pressure on the UAE, since they are not dependent on sales anymore. If the UAE wants to play games, they can play it now as well, because at the end both sides knows that the UAE will buy Rafales anyway.

 

[Yeti]

Mods can we have a sticky now on Rafale?


As the MRCA tender looks like its over and now a new chapter to start

 

[Mosamania]

Personally. I think India should not have gone after Rafale. Rafale already experiences huge difficulties in introducing new modifications. Meaning although it is a very capable jet "NOW" however in the future its prospects are dim. France couldn't complete the UAE deal because they "Can't" and I repeat "Can't" make the upgrading the UAE required.

Now and up to about 2022 it will remain a beat in the sky but not much after that. And if india is buying a plane it is only seeking to induct for 10 years then excuse me but this is counter-productive and a waste of cash if you ask me.

 

[peep]

That diamond has a curse let them keep it lol

what is that curse ?

Personally. I think India should not have gone after Rafale. Rafale already experiences huge difficulties in introducing new modifications. Meaning although it is a very capable jet "NOW" however in the future its prospects are dim. France couldn't complete the UAE deal because they "Can't" and I repeat "Can't" make the upgrading the UAE required.

Now and up to about 2022 it will remain a beat in the sky but not much after that. And if india is buying a plane it is only seeking to induct for 10 years then excuse me but this is counter-productive and a waste of cash if you ask me.

Dont beat around the bush. Just tell us what we should have done. Now plz dont say EFT for god's sake.

 

[Hello_10]

Too old man, too old and I have to disagree with again! Rafale was never kicked out like you said, because there was never any "official" statement on that from GoI, MoD or even IAF. All we heared were a report "placed" in the news quoting an "unnamed source". There was not even any statement send to Dassault nor to French government, btw the wiki leakes reports from Brazil even confirms that the US had no involvement in that, because they didn't had a clue about these news either wanted to get more infos about it.
When you count all this together, you have to realise that it was the other way around and Indian government mostlikely put pressure on the French to get more access on technical details they wanted to evaluate.
Similarly, the government of UAE is constantly feeding the news with false infos about Rafale not beeing technically good enough (although they agreed to nearly all specs that the French forces now will have), that they will evaluate F16s, F18SH, F15s and the EF (allthough none of them will buy back the M2K-9s and only the EF might be able to carry the Black Shaheen cruise missiles). The only reason for such false news is, increase the public pressure on the manufacturer or the manufacturing country and get more advantages. We might get what we wanted before the trials, the UAE defenitely get more side advantages which they wanted.
Btw, the selection of Rafale in India now gives France and Dassault to turn it around and put pressure on the UAE, since they are not dependent on sales anymore. If the UAE wants to play games, they can play it now as well, because at the end both sides knows that the UAE will buy Rafales anyway.

Most of the time you talk about those small technical terms which isn’t needed neither you are qualified to talk about them, but even little common sense is enough to say ‘what should be’, or, ‘how it looks like’. Read this news and search on net, it happened sometimes in early 2009 and Rafale again backed after 2-3 months and now it has won this MMRCA deal……….....

The French Rafale twin-engine multi-role fighter has been knocked off a $10-billion contract for 126 combat aircraft for the Indian Air Force. One of six contenders, Rafale was 'officially' rejected by the 'Ministry' of Defence for what an official called the failure to meet qualitative requirements of the contract.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/french-rafael-knocked-off-10-billion-race-for-iaf-fighter/447745/

Thursday, May 5, 2011

This is also true for Brazil : The rejection of the Gripen NG and Super Hornet in India is a big setback for Saab and Boeing and one more argument in favor of the Rafale in the FX-2 contest when it will restart. We should not forget that the US ambassador in Brazil was thinking of using the (bogus) Rafale elimination in India, back in 2009, in order to discredit the French plane (as revealed by Wikileaks). The situation is clearly reversed now that the Rafale has received its "approved by the IAF" stamp.

Rafale News: MMRCA, The Indian shortlist shock wave

And after reading this, you would promise not to continue making unnecessary arguments to me. You aren’t the man who handled the entire issue related to MMRCA, nor me, but if someone says something then it doesn’t mean you have to keep answering. Search net, get to know how politics happened on this deal, you will get too many ideas. Now talk to others. thanks

 

[Mosamania]

Whatever it is I am sure India's defense ministry is not staffed by idiots to make the wrong choice. Now I have to sink into 31 pages in the Arabic Defense forum over this.... This Typhoon vs Rafale is seriously getting old x(

God help me it is going to be a forum warzone there....

 

[sancho]

Personally. I think India should not have gone after Rafale. Rafale already experiences huge difficulties in introducing new modifications. Meaning although it is a very capable jet "NOW" however in the future its prospects are dim. France couldn't complete the UAE deal because they "Can't" and I repeat "Can't" make the upgrading the UAE required.

Now and up to about 2022 it will remain a beat in the sky but not much after that. And if india is buying a plane it is only seeking to induct for 10 years then excuse me but this is counter-productive and a waste of cash if you ask me.

Rafale F3+

- upgraded engine
- new developed radar
- upgraded MAWS
- upgrades SPECTRA EWS
- upgraded FSO
- upgraded weapon package


Upgrades till 2020

- upgrade for IRST already going on
- upgrade for Damocles pod already going on
- upgrade for AESA radar and SPECTRA with GaN modules, already going on
- upgrade of the weapon package with AASM 125, Brimstone or maybe Indian weapons
- 90kN engine version developed nearly a decade ago, can be integrated if a customer is ready to pay for it (UAE didn't wanted to pay alone and not takes the normal 75kN engine)
- HMS developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration
- CFTs developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration


Upgrades beyond 2020

- stealth demonstrator (airframe shapings, weapon pods, new coatings) already funded to start development
- SATCOM data links aimed to link Rafale in future with nEUROn UCAV in combined strike attacks
- TVC
- AESA side arrays

So no, they are not struggeling to upgrade the fighter, not in the past, not in present and not in future too, but you just might have confused it with the EF.

 

[Mosamania]

Rafale F3+

- upgraded engine
- new developed radar
- upgraded MAWS
- upgrades SPECTRA EWS
- upgraded FSO
- upgraded weapon package

- upgrade for IRST already going on
- upgrade for Damocles pod already going on
- upgrade for AESA radar and SPECTRA with GaN modules, already going on
- upgrade of the weapon package with AASM 125, Brimstone or maybe Indian weapons

- stealth demonstrator (airframe shapings, weapon pods, new coatings) already funded to start development
- SATCOM data links aimed to link Rafale in future with nEUROn UCAV in combined strike attacks
- 90kN engine version developed nearly a decade ago, can be integrated if a customer is ready to pay for it (UAE didn't wanted to pay alone and not takes the normal 75kN engine)
- HMS developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration
- CFTs developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration

So no, they are not struggeling to upgrade the fighter, not in the past, not in present and not in future too, but you just might have confused it with the EF.

Please i don't want to start a Rafale vs Typhoon thing again. Defense forum all over the world of all languages have turned these two aircrafts into a fukcing religion man.

 

[KRAIT]

Rafale F3+

- upgraded engine
- new developed radar
- upgraded MAWS
- upgrades SPECTRA EWS
- upgraded FSO
- upgraded weapon package

- upgrade for IRST already going on
- upgrade for Damocles pod already going on
- upgrade for AESA radar and SPECTRA with GaN modules, already going on
- upgrade of the weapon package with AASM 125, Brimstone or maybe Indian weapons

- stealth demonstrator (airframe shapings, weapon pods, new coatings) already funded to start development
- SATCOM data links aimed to link Rafale in future with nEUROn UCAV in combined strike attacks
- 90kN engine version developed nearly a decade ago, can be integrated if a customer is ready to pay for it (UAE didn't wanted to pay alone and not takes the normal 75kN engine)
- HMS developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration
- CFTs developed and tested nearly a decade ago, waiting for a customer to fund integration

So no, they are not struggeling to upgrade the fighter, not in the past, not in present and not in future too, but you just might have confused it with the EF.

Finally someone gave a detailed account of Rafale's development. ( too lazy to write this )
I don't know why people claim without doing proper research.

 

[Shaurya]

Whatever it is I am sure India's defense ministry is not staffed by idiots to make the wrong choice. Now I have to sink into 31 pages in the Arabic Defense forum over this.... This Typhoon vs Rafale is seriously getting old x(

God help me it is going to be a forum warzone there....

so does france has any plans?? I heard they will be inducting their next aircraft in 2035-2040 and it will be sixth gen. air craft
Any explanations how will french themselves would survive??

 

[Mosamania]

Finally someone gave a detailed account of Rafale's development. ( too lazy to write this )
I don't know why people claim without doing proper research.

Okay I didn't want to get into it but here it goes:

-Typhoon will be getting a thrust vectoring engine.
-Typhoon will operate the E-scan radar reputed to be the most advanced AESA radar in the world.
-Typhoon is the first to operate the MAWS system similar to the one installed on the F-35 called the EuroDASS.
-Typhoon already incorporates Electronic Warfare Suit.
-Both Typhoon and Rafale will employ the PIRATE.
-IRST is already incorporated into the Typhoon.
-Democles is being phased out of service it seriously needs to be upgraded. For you guys however you can put the Israeli Litening III on the Typhoon which still can not be integrated into the Rafale.
-The last weapon this you said is already integrated into the Typhoon for some time now.


I can answer the other things but I really hate these competitions and I am feeling sick even participating in one.

 

[KRAIT]

Okay I didn't want to get into it but here it goes:

-Typhoon will be getting a thrust vectoring engine.
-Typhoon will operate the E-scan radar reputed to be the most advanced AESA radar in the world.
-Typhoon is the first to operate the MAWS system similar to the one installed on the F-35 called the EuroDASS.
-Typhoon already incorporates Electronic Warfare Suit.
-Both Typhoon and Rafale will employ the PIRATE.
-IRST is already incorporated into the Typhoon.
-Democles is being phased out of service it seriously needs to be upgraded. For you guys however you can put the Israeli Litening III on the Typhoon which still can not be integrated into the Rafale.
-The last weapon this you said is already integrated into the Typhoon for some time now.


I can answer the other things but I really hate these competitions and I am feeling sick even participating in one.

Exactly. Thats what i am saying, both are equally good. And we have urgent need of MMRCA due to our dwindling squadron no.s

I didn't mean to offend you. I was saying in general.

 

[Mosamania]

so does france has any plans?? I heard they will be inducting their next aircraft in 2035-2040 and it will be sixth gen. air craft
Any explanations how will french themselves would survive??

The Rafale was a shoot off from the original Typhoon program, Because of usual and world famous French arrogance and it kept fighting with all other partner nations and only wanted to do it their way so the Rafale came into being. Seeing their history it is no mystery the two are the world's most competitive aircrafts since both almost employ the same technology.

European countries no longer think of "Gotta fight my neighbor" attitude so they will be able to survive just fine, War won't reach them for sometime and regarding their lack of 5th gen I am sure they will fill it up by going in a joint NATO operation with F-22 and F-35s.

 

[Yeti]

You know i wanted the EF at one point but after reading Sancho's post and also the fact that we already operate the Mirage i feel the best plane won and im a convert now of the Rafale

 

[savVY]

Congrats for everyone .. sorry for being late but we get our plane ... no need of this thread now for people saying that we don't have money specifically you know the name. No offense. now