Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

A careful reading of the RFP’s introductory section reveals what exactly the IAF desires from an operational perspective.


1) The M-MRCA on offer has to be a fully functional and mature system, with all its listed capabilities already in operational service and not requiring any further fine-tuning or R & D work.

If this would be true, all MMRCAs would not fullfil this point, because they has some capabilities under development, or offered as options. Mig 35 and Gripen E/F are even available on paper only and has much R&D work left, just like the EF, that still did not fixed the T3 yet.

 

[sancho]

UK uses Typhoon jet in attack role for first time


* Eurofighter Typhoon attack debut may boost sales

* Typhoon competes with Dassault's Rafale for buyers

By Mohammed Abbas

LONDON, Apr 13 (Reuters) - Britain used the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet in active combat for the first time, a senior military official said on Wednesday.

British Air Vice-Marshal Phil Osborn said the aircraft had been used on Tuesday to bomb targets over Libya, where NATO forces are attacking military assets belonging to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, and enforcing a no-fly zone and arms embargo.

"It's the first time that Typhoon has deployed weapons in the air-to-ground role. As far as I can recall, it's the first time it's deployed weapons operationally," Osborn said of the aircraft's bombing raid on Tuesday.

A defence ministry official later confirmed that Tuesday's operation was the first time the Typhoon had fired live weapons during combat operations. The aircraft is built by Britain's BAE Systems, Italy's Finmeccanica and European aerospace group EADS .

Conflicts typically serve as an arms market shop window, and the NATO mission in Libya has coincided with a surge in global demand for fighter jets and the arrival of a new generation of equipment.

In Libya, the Typhoon is up against France's Rafale warplane, built by Dassault Aviation, for buyer attention. The Rafale has conducted several strikes against Gaddafi loyalists in recent weeks.

On the first day of Western bombing raids over Libya in late March, Rafale jets helped destroy a column of Gaddafi's tanks, armoured personnel carriers and artillery, leaving a trail of burning wreckage outside the rebel-held city of Benghazi. There appeared to be no craters left by misses.

Osborn said the Typhoon's air-to-ground missile attack capability had been activated several years earlier than planned, but denied media reports that pilots had not been sufficiently trained yet to conduct bombing raids.

"The RAF (Royal Air Force) have sufficient Typhoon aircrew to undertake the current task, with appropriate training for all the systems and weapons carried by the aircraft, whether air-to-air or air-to-ground munitions," he said.

The aircraft had previously only been enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya, and not bombing ground targets.

Design and construction of the Typhoon has been plagued by cost inflation and delays, and last month, Britain's National Audit Office said project costs had risen 20 percent despite the defence ministry buying 30 percent fewer jets than planned.

That raised the cost of each aircraft purchased by 75 percent, the body said.

UK uses Typhoon jet in attack role for first time | News by Country | Reuters


A note from an Italian blog on the same topic:

Other interesting things, informations and thoughts:

1) Chief of the air staff Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton, during the Royal Aeronautical Society’s Aerospace 2011 conference in London revealed that two RAF Typhoons, each dorpped one Paveway II 454kg (1,000lb) bomb against loyalist ground vehicles that were successfully and accurately destroyed.

Most of the strikes over Libya were done with 250Kg Paveway LGB, or AASM PGMs, but the EF so far has tested these versions only and have no other choice, than useing this heavier bombs even against smaller targets.
For comparison, the RAF Tornados are using 250Kg Paveway IV LGB and Brimstone missiles to engage tanks, or other vehicles.

 

[SpArK]

Gripen:Fast on-site​

LIBYA From decision to action, it only took 23 hours to be the first JAS 39 Gripen aircraft landed at Sigonellabasen. Pilots were told where they would land only after the lifting of Sweden. Therefore, it is impossible to know what was in place since the reconnaissance force did not have time to answer all the questions - because the reconnaissance were held in parallel with the unit began setting up.

Fuel
Kerosene 75
Normally fuel for the Gripen. A variant of Jet A1.

Jet A1
The most common fuel in the world of jet aircraft. Approved for use on the Gripen.

JP-5
Within NATO, called the F-40. Fuels including U.S. Navy uses. It has a higher flash point for the safety of operations on aircraft carriers.

JP-8
Within NATO, called the F-34. Similar Kerosene 75, but with anti-istillsats, which is not needed in the Gripen.

Personnel and equipment are in place. It took a little over a week to build up the grouping of the spaces allocated to the Swedes on Sigonellabasen. The introduction has been dogged by some challenges förbandschefen call it. Among other fuel issue, but the unit works on the motto, "we'll fix it!"

- The staff is amazing, there is nothing that is impossible and all work for one thing - the delivery of required capabilities, "said Stephen Wilson.

Looking forward with optimism

Currently, work is in full swing with several different solutions to solve long-term fuel question. The driving agent that can be found at Sigonellabasen commonly kerosene, but lacks the additive which Jas 39 Gripen need. The major difference between the different fuel types is the flash point. JP-5, available at Sigonellabasen and used by the U.S. Navy has a higher flash point for safety reasons because they are based on aircraft carriers. JAS 39 Gripen uses the normal Kerosene 75, which is the most common working fluid for civil jet aircraft.

- We will add their own trucks and we also have staff on site will mix the additive in the fuel needed for the Gripen, "he says.

Until the tank cars are used in place of the fuel in the Swedish tanker aircraft, KC-130th

He keeps telling the challenges, which he chooses to call it, often comes just when everything looks the best. Two JAS 39 Gripen aircraft had just refueled air from the Swedish KC-130 tanker when it suddenly hit by a broken gearbox in one of the four engines. Frictions are part of the military everyday and we solve them once they occur.

- Tanker landed with three engines, that in itself did not create any more drama, "Mr Wilson continues.
- In addition, there was a bird strike on the tanker aircraft's right flap when it would land. This in itself is not unusual.

Already the next day landed repair equipment to the aircraft on Sigonellabasen and flight engineers began work to restore the aircraft. The work flowed in and it went better than expected. The aircraft engine could be run after only two days and is now ready for the next mission.

- Now we leave the initial phase, with the establishment of the Sigonella base and look forward to our Swedish contribution to Operation Unified Protector, concludes Stefan Wilson.




Snabbt på plats - Försvarsmakten


Sory for the bloody translation.

 

[SpArK]

JAS 39C RECCE and LITENING Pods​

 

[SpArK]

Please dont watch this video.

 

[luckyyy]

A careful reading of the RFP’s introductory section reveals what exactly the IAF desires from an operational perspective.


.

careful reading of the RFP’s ...it's non other then MIG-35.....

 

[razgriz19]

Please dont watch this video.

I DIDN'T!!!

---------- Post added at 11:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 PM ----------

 

[razgriz19]

oh yeah one more thing when is indian MoD gonna finalize the aircraft??

 

[SpArK]

Watchdog slams delays, high costs of Typhoon jet​

LONDON | Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:36am BST

(Reuters) - A parliamentary watchdog Friday criticised delays and cost inflation in the production of the new Typhoon fighter jet, prompting the defence ministry to defend the project.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is built by Britain's BAE Systems, Italy's Finmeccanica and European aerospace group EADS, and this week conducted its first combat operation, enforcing a United Nations resolution in Libya.

In a scathing report, the parliament's Committee of Public Accounts, which scrutinises the way government departments spend money but has no regulatory powers, said the Typhoon project was mismanaged, pushing up costs.

"The history of the Typhoon fighter aircraft represents yet another example of over-optimism, bad planning and an unacceptably high bill for the taxpayer," said committee chair Margaret Hodge in a statement.

"The (defence ministry) is now buying 30 percent fewer Typhoon fighter aircraft than originally planned, the cost of the project is now expected to be 3.5 billion pounds more than was originally approved ... the cost of each aircraft has increased by 75 per cent," she added.

The watchdog said the overall project cost had risen to 20.2 billion pounds and that the cost of each plane had risen to 126 million pounds each. The body also said it had taken too long to bring the jet -- conceived in the 1980s -- into service.

Britain is buying 160 of the aircraft, and the accounts committee suggested that support costs for the plane could be higher than originally budgeted.

Global demand for a new generation of fighter jets has surged, and the arms market is likely to be watching the Typhoon's performance in Libya closely, weighing up its advantages against its purchase and running costs.

The defence ministry defended the Typhoon project, and said problems in its production were being resolved.

"The Typhoon is a world beating air-to-air fighter and is fast developing a ground attack capability as is being demonstrated in Libya," Defence Secretary Liam Fox said in a statement.

"I am determined that in the future such projects are properly run from the outset, and I have announced reforms to reduce equipment delays and cost overruns," he added.

Government departments have been under pressure in recent months to slash spending to reduce a national budget deficit, and the defence ministry in particular has been strongly criticised for over-spending in previous years.
Watchdog slams delays, high costs of Typhoon jet | Reuters



Euro$$Fighter Anyone?

 

[SpArK]

RAF training cuts leave Typhoons idle - Telegraph

 

[sancho]

Not a good day for the EF, especially not from the British media as it seems:

RAF Typhoon jets 'grounded owing to spares shortages

The RAF's most advanced fighter jets have been grounded owing to shortages of spare parts, MPs have found.

The Commons public accounts committee said five Typhoon pilots were grounded last year because they had been unable to put in enough training flight hours.

The jets have been used in Libya, and were deployed for the first time in a ground attack this week near Misrata.

The Ministry of Defence insists the problems identified by the committee have since been addressed.

Although Typhoons - which are made by BAE systems in Warton, Lancashire - have already been carrying out air defence missions, they have only recently been equipped for a ground attack role and were deployed in a bombing mission for the first time this week in Libya.

In their report, the MPs warned that only eight of the RAF's 48 Typhoon pilots were qualified to carry out ground attacks last year.

But Air Vice Marshal Phil Osborn said that there were now "sufficient Typhoon aircraft and pilots to undertake the task in Libya".

The RAF was undertaking its mission in a "proportionate, disciplined, reliable way," he added.

The committee claimed that the RAF was having to cannibalise aircraft for spare parts in order to keep the maximum number of Typhoons in the air on any given day.

It added that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) had warned the problems were likely to continue until 2015 when it expects the supply of spares finally to have reached a "steady state"...

...Ground attack

The overall cost of the programme is now estimated at £20.2bn, with the cost per plane rising from £72m to £126m.

The committee complained that the MoD had been unable to offer a "coherent explanation" for a decision in 2004 to equip the early Typhoons for ground attack operations at a cost of £119m, only to switch them back to an air defence role in 2009, a year after the upgrade was finally ready.

"The history of the Typhoon fighter aircraft represents yet another example of over-optimism, bad planning and an unacceptably high bill for the taxpayer," committee chair and Labour MP Margaret Hodge argued.

"This pattern of decision-making is more about balancing the books in the short-term rather than ensuring value for money over time."

Defence Secretary Liam Fox said the committee had recognised that the Ministry of Defence and the aerospace industry had been working to "resolve spares issues"...

BBC News - RAF Typhoon jets 'grounded owing to spares shortages'


From IAF point of view this must mean, that even they can be effected with spare issues, when they will receive the first squad of fighters in 2014. Also, if they needed so long to correct the issues on the older versions, what about the spares of the techs that might be newly developed for our version (swashplate AESA, TVC...)?
When even the British say it's too costly and has no value for the money, it should tell us something too isn't it?
No doubt that they offer high ToT and a very interesting partnership, but what's it worth for our forces when the fighter is too expensive, not multi role capable enough and to make it even worse, most likely delayed?

 

[sancho]

This article is also talking about the first ground attack of the Eurofighter and is not flattering as well:

RAF Eurofighters make devastating attack – on Parliament

Should have called it Operation Guy Fawkes, not Ellamy

The RAF has blown up two apparently abandoned Libyan tanks using a Eurofighter Typhoon jet in a move which appears to have been motivated more by Whitehall infighting than by any attempt to battle the forces of dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

The following video was released by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) yesterday afternoon, less than 24 hours after the events shown took place (this is much faster than normal)

The video appears to show a T-72 tank neatly parked, stationary and unmanned: the target was plainly not in use. The Telegraph reports that the location struck was "an abandoned tank park". Many Libyan armoured vehicles are old and not serviceable due to lack of parts and servicing. RAF sources admitted to the paper that the jets making the strike had had to spend "a long time" searching before they could find a valid target to hit, and that the timing of the strike was "no coincidence".

The video release was accompanied by a briefing to reporters from an RAF air marshal, in which he stated:

"The RAF has never doubted the efficacy of the Typhoon as a potent ground attack aircraft. Last night, it proved we were right."

This hasty effort by the RAF to get Typhoons into ground-attack action took place just ahead of the scheduled release by the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee of a damning report on the Eurofighter, titled Management of the Typhoon project. This report had been expected to be highly critical of the Typhoon, and indeed it is...

...It thus becomes fairly plain that in order to carry out this week's small-scale attacks, the RAF must have resorted to measures such as pulling weapons instructors out of training units, disrupting the future personnel pipeline and quite possibly delaying the arrival of a proper, sustainable corps of Typhoon pilots capable of all tasks.

And the service has done all this, seemingly, in order to blow up a couple of abandoned, probably unserviceable 40-year-old tanks... Or, more accurately, the RAF has done this in an attempt to wrong-foot the MPs of the Public Accounts Committee.


...It remains a fact that the Eurofighter will only be fully capable as a bomber – to the point where it is actually better than the aged 1980s-vintage Tornado alongside which it is flying above Libya – in 2018, once yet more billions have been spent on it...

...And it remains an even more painful fact that just three years later on current plans the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will arrive with its stealth and modern electronic-warfare capability, rendering the Eurofighter totally obsolete as a bomber and quite probably as a fighter too.
So the desperate effort we have seen this week to get some weapons off some Eurofighters should not obscure the fact that the RAF's conversion of the plane into a bomber has been and will continue to be an unmitigated, idiotic procurement disaster. It should also not obscure the fact that even without the bomber upgrades the Eurofighter was a horrific train-crash of a project: without bomber upgrades it would still have cost us £20.2bn to obtain our planned fleet of just 107 jets, putting each one at £189m (with bomber conversion this will climb to £215m).

And people should not allow the RAF's cynical, pointless bombings to make them forget that more and worse is to come on Eurofighter in the matter of the plane's running and support costs. These are officially acknowledged to be no less than £13bn until 2030 – nearly enough to replace Trident! – and it is quite plain that this figure has been unrealistically lowballed. In other words we will either pay more, or – perhaps more likely – get fewer flying hours and thus in effect even fewer jets...

RAF Eurofighters make devastating attack ? on Parliament ? The Register


I guess now we now why they suddenly brought up the EF in ground attacks, although their own Tornados are way more capable in that role.
Moreover we once again have a confirmation that the EF lacks far behind other fighters in terms of real multi role capabilities and will remain till 2018!

 

[SpArK]

EF is now out of the list unless the MoD is that stupid. That leaves with Super bug and Rafale.

Hornet is heavy according to sources and not to say the US twistings.

So its just

 

[sancho]

EF is now out of the list unless the MoD is that stupid. That leaves with Super bug and Rafale.

Possible, although I like the EF because of it's planed capabilities and potentials, it turned out to be too delayed, too costly and suffers too much from the different interests of the 4 partners and the financial crisis. I would have prefered it 10 years ago, if the choice would have been teaming up with MKI, or EF, but today, with several other options and the MKI inducted anyway, it's simply the wrong way to go.



Besides that, here is something interesting about Rafale and it's sensor fusion:

LAAD 2011, Rafale sensor fusion

"LAAD – Defence & Security, the most important trade show for the defence and security industry in Latin America – takes place every two years bringing together Brazilian and international companies that specialise in supplying equipment and services to all three major services of the Armed Forces, Police, special forces and security services, as well as consultants and government agencies."

During the 3rd day of the trade show, last wednesday April 14th, Dassault has presented the Rafale to the press.
One of the slide of the presentation released by Poder Aereo is explaining how the Rafale sensor fusion works. I think this slide is rather interesting as it might show how the Rafale is operating during BVR combats :

The first Rafale, using its radar, remains at long range and feeds the second Rafale (mica shooter) through the data link. The mica shooter get much closer (mica range) to the bandits, but in full passive mode, using the OSF and Spectra to identify the targets and improve the targeting data. When the missiles have been shot, the shotter brakes away, and let the first Rafale guide its missiles from a safe range.

This is a very tricky situation for the bandits because :

1- The closest rafale shooting the mica is hidding and thus, is difficult to detect (no EM emissions) but remains the primary threat until it breaks away.
2- The second rafale, is clearly showing itself, radar on, but it remains out of missile range.
3- the mica are not coming from the rafale which is guiding them

Rafale News: LAAD 2011, Rafale sensor fusion


In the same regard of Rafales sensor fusion, here an example how they use it in combination with AASM in SEAD operations as well:

 

[jha]

Aesa Ready Rafale by 2013, eye on MMRCA tender

Thales is all set to begin production RBE2 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars, keeping an eye on Indian MMRCA Tender and also 60 Rafales which have been ordered by French Générale pour l’Armement (DGA), first AESA-equipped squadron is expected to be operational in 2013.

Preproduction batch of three AESA radars where tested on three different aircrafts, aircrafts used for test flights were Falcon, Mirage-2000 and Rafale. Test flights were carried out in September and December last year and the tranche-four Rafales will be first to get AESA radars.

First round of Radar test were conducted with US-made transmitter/receivers, but Thales have already developed their locally made transmitter/receivers and will be integrated in the serial production variant of the RBE2 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

RBE2 Aesa will enable Rafale to be the first European aircraft to feature a AESA Radar, but EADS is already working on e-scan radar for Euro Fighter aircraft and Saab is also testing its AESA radar for Gripen NG, work on AESA Radar program for this aircrafts have picked up speed since all are eyeing lucrative Indian air forces 126 jet order under MMRCA tender, which makes its mandatory for the aircrafts participating in the tender to have tested AESA Radar.


Aesa Ready Rafale by 2013, eye on MMRCA tender | idrw.org