Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[nitesh]

I DOTN SEE whats so good about Rafale the only good i think is - full TOT , i bet fa 18 super hornet will make it with full TOT .
MIG 35 are almost like new mig 29.

Rafale is a very good plane. Remember IAF wanted mirage to be purchased in large number when it did not materialize the MRCA came in. Boeing has already denied about sharing of source code for there radar. Boss miG 35 is very improved version. Not just a new miG29

 

[macintosh]

Aren't you are just saying to make another hochpoch with so many different planes with different armamants to be maintained? Just think about that

Fine that maintenance for F-18 will be costly than that for Mig-35 and rafale as IAF already have french and russian planes but one has to start somewhere considering that if Indo-US strategic patnership materialize fully in future and Americans feel free to provide us with TOT or make us partner in any of their future plans then it would cost it much more for maintenance at that time than it may now.American combat aircrafts are superb in both design and technology even if they don't provide full TOT.

Moreover relying over just Russians as our main suppliers is not that good as we wont have an edge over chinese who also have access to much of the russian arsenal.Also f-18 is one gem which will be further upgraded by the Americans and give us a distinctive edge in subcontinent.

 

[nitesh]

Then why not go with F 18 only. What is the logic behind dividing this order. A lot of ways it can be compensated like the second line of subs order can go to Russia. French have already got orders for there nuclear reactors. Same for russia too.

 

[macintosh]

I DOTN SEE
MIG 35 are almost like new mig 29.

Not at all.
Not if you know about it.Mig-35 may be fitted with thrust vectored control,has fly by wire,new aesa radar and optical locator system.
And according to those who fly mig-29 you can't get the best out of it even after 6 years on it as it is much less forgiving.

 

[macintosh]

Then why not go with F 18 only. What is the logic behind dividing this order. A lot of ways it can be compensated like the second line of subs order can go to Russia. French have already got orders for there nuclear reactors. Same for russia too.

French got 6 reactors may be due to scorpene TOT or maitery or their support in NSG or else something bigger is cooking up as you don't give such a large order without anything.


But just don't trust America as behind everything they do is a long drawn strategy and they will definetely not be giving full TOT.America is unreliable and I believe obama in particular for India as was evident by his UN representative by putting kashmir in the same line as libya and insisting on India signing ctbt before signing of nuclear deal with India as also by his talk about H3B visa for working in U.S.
We should only order as much of F-18 as is required for continuing the strategic patnership and 60 is a decent number.
Their is no point in giving them the full order as it will jeopardize Indo-russian deep friendship as when medveded visited India recently India for the first time applauded russian efforts in caucas region which was like music to medveded ears.You just don't speak about that region if you don't want to please russia too much.

 

[duhastmish]

We should only order as much of F-18 as is required for continuing the strategic ........

dude seem like a developing country is giving bheekh to us of A he he he he , doesn't it feel good ay!
but like i said before dont depend on Russia too much , we have enough deals with them , pak fa , new ship carrier etc etc etc, many many more. and India need to know more about American or European technology,

 

[nitesh]

French got 6 reactors may be due to scorpene TOT or maitery or their support in NSG or else something bigger is cooking up as you don't give such a large order without anything.


But just don't trust America as behind everything they do is a long drawn strategy and they will definetely not be giving full TOT.America is unreliable and I believe obama in particular for India as was evident by his UN representative by putting kashmir in the same line as libya and insisting on India signing ctbt before signing of nuclear deal with India as also by his talk about H3B visa for working in U.S.
We should only order as much of F-18 as is required for continuing the strategic patnership and 60 is a decent number.
Their is no point in giving them the full order as it will jeopardize Indo-russian deep friendship as when medveded visited India recently India for the first time applauded russian efforts in caucas region which was like music to medveded ears.You just don't speak about that region if you don't want to please russia too much.

I am still not getting the logic behind this 60 number. The P8i deal is signed deal for CBU 105 is signed. The C 130J is signed. Almost 3.2 billion dollars signed. give them pie in helicopter contest. Or the tender going on for artillery competition. There is no need to screw up the logistic structure for a very small number.

 

[macintosh]

We should only order as much of F-18 as is required for continuing the strategic ........

dude seem like a developing country is giving bheekh to us of A he he he he , doesn't it feel good ay!
but like i said before dont depend on Russia too much , we have enough deals with them , pak fa , new ship carrier etc etc etc, many many more. and India need to know more about American or European technology,

Read post #405. There if have said that f-18 is a gem and will give India a distinctive advantage.As far as my comments "We should only order as much of F-18 as is required for continuing the strategic" are concerned ,these were in response to nitesh suggesting why not go for f-18 only are are quoted by you out of context.

 

[macintosh]

I am still not getting the logic behind this 60 number. The P8i deal is signed deal for CBU 105 is signed. The C 130J is signed. Almost 3.2 billion dollars signed. give them pie in helicopter contest. Or the tender going on for artillery competition. There is no need to screw up the logistic structure for a very small number.

It will give flexibility and experience to IAF and in future if INDIAN NAVY wanna go for it then it will be pretty easy.The logic behind no. 60 is this:
80 rafale as it superb and less maintenance plus full TOT,60 mig-35 as will kind of act as upgrade of mig-29 India has experience,less maintenance,full tot and Russians wont be wary of growing Indo-US patnership,60 f-18 which can me ordered more if in future INDIAN NAVY wants it ,would have acquired experience by the,not totally dependent on russians, flexibility, added advantage china doesn't have it so edge and begning of development of infrastructure for maintenance of US fighters if India wanna go for some in future.Total add to 200 the numbers IAF is looking for.

 

[nitesh]

IAF has already signed contract for upgrading MiG29's so you are saying let's have mig35 also? Mirage deal is getting signed so let's have rafale also. So after some time the composition will be MiG21/27/29/35 so instead of reducing the types of planes you are advocating let's increase it? Above that add mirage2k and then rafale also. oh let's have jaguar too. Oh stop let's have LCA and MKI also. OOps this is not sufficient toys let's have F 18 also. The current diversity is not enough you want more only?

The best option would be to go with only one AC so that it can be inducted in numbers and have it's presence felt in the battle.

 

[ejaz007]

Air Force MRCA Update: Field Trials to be Held in April-May 2009
Dated 19/1/2009


The Air Force will conduct trials of six medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) in contention for a massive $11 billion, 126-aircraft contract sometime in April-May. This was revealed to reporters by Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major during the weekend.

"The technical evaluation of the MMRCA is almost complete. Hopefully, field trials should commence by April-May this year," the ACM said in his address at the annual Air Chief Marshal LM Katre Memorial Lecture. This begins the next phase in which the Air Force intends to purchase sufficient numbers of cutting edge fighter aircrafts to replace the ageing fleet of Soviet era MiG-21 aircraft.

Six of the top global fighter aircraft majors which includes MiG, Dassault, Eurofighter, SAAB Gripen, Boeing and Lockheed Martin submitted their bids in April 2008. The aircraft, in contention for the mega order are the Russian MiG-35, Dassault's Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen JAS-39, Boeing's F/A-18E/F Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16. Under Indian industrial offset stipulations the winner will have to source, or re-invest, at least 50 per cent of the contract value through Indian industry or in India.

A request for proposal (RFP) for the 126 combat jets was floated in August 2007 and all those invited responded with their proposals by April 2008. Since then authorities have been studying the copious amount of documents submitted, which in the case of some bidders runs into as many as 10,000 pages. Even as all this impressive clerical activity is being carried out over the years, the fleet strength of the Indian Air Force has dwindled to historic lows which has become a major handicap with respect to reignition of tensions with Pakistan as the terror threat looms large on Indian cities.

ACM FH Major said the current fighter fleet was also being enhanced with an upgrade programme. "The Jaguars, MiG-27s and MiG 21-BIS have been upgraded with latest avionics and weapons systems. Similarly, the MiG-29 upgrade is underway and the Mirage 2000 upgrade will commence soon. The induction of the Sukhoi fighter (Su-30MKI) has been accelerated with the indigenous version from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) facility at Nashik."

The air chief also hoped the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme would gain momentum after initial operational clearance and induction of the aircraft into squadron service by 2010-11.

In the case of the IAF's helicopter fleet, a comprehensive modernisation programme was underway, with the Chetak and Cheetah choppers being replaced with 125 light utility choppers being acquired through a global tender. "The contract for 80 Mi-17 helicopters with advanced glass cockpits has already been signed. They will be inducted in phases from 2010 to 2013," the ACM said. "We are processing a proposal to procure 22 attack choppers, which will be best in its class. We have signed a contract with HAL for 38 advanced light helicopter (ALH), including 16 armed versions with new Shakti engines and glass cockpits," ACM FH Major said.

Air Force MRCA Update: Field Trials to be Held in April-May 2009 | India Defence

 

[ju87]

Look man IAF is not so much of a zoo, Name the US Fighter Aircrafts we have? We have some helos, thats it I believe. I would Go for the F18s for MRCA if full TOT, otherwise Rafael is my choice!

We've ordered Orion maritime patrol craft and transport planes from the US.

Nitesh and others:

What I meant by zoo is we have too much variety. Didn't mean any offense. What you said about not depending on one country is true, but I imagine the logistics of maintaining both eastern and western bloc equipment is a nightmare.

 

[nitesh]

No boss it is not a ZOO at all. Every plane has some dedicated role to do. MiG27 is ground attack air craft. Jaguar is a maritime strike aircraft. MiG29 is for countering F16. In intial days it was quite a headache to maintian it. Hence Mirage (it is multi role) was purchased. MiG 21 in Bison configuration is our interceptor.

Now the days are in for true multi role fighters. Hence the MRCA.

 

[ejaz007]

IAF does have problem maintaining such a variety of equipment. Logistics and Maintenance are difficult especially when a squadron has to be relocated from one base to another. The recipient airbase won't have the stock of the spares needed for the incoming planes and neither would its staff major knowledge of the maintenance of the plane.

A team maintaining Mig-21 would know almost nothing regarding Mirage 2000 or SU-30.

This situation is not going to improve especially if non Russian/French system is inducted in the service. Initially IAF problems would escalate and then with the passage of time depending on the availability of spares and technical expertise might smoothen up.

 

[nitesh]

IAF does have problem maintaining such a variety of equipment. Logistics and Maintenance are difficult especially when a squadron has to be relocated from one base to another. The recipient airbase won't have the stock of the spares needed for the incoming planes and neither would its staff major knowledge of the maintenance of the plane.

Lots of bases operate multiple types of aircrafts. The problem can happen when youa re suddenly moving one type of plane to a base which does not previously operates it. But don't you plan it beforehand

A team maintaining Mig-21 would know almost nothing regarding Mirage 2000 or SU-30.

Too general statement. People can have multiple skills.

This situation is not going to improve especially if non Russian/French system is inducted in the service. Initially IAF problems would escalate and then with the passage of time depending on the availability of spares and technical expertise might smoothen up.

Well MRCA is chosen to reduce the diversity and in large numbers. So worth the exercise.