Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[KEETARP]

It was you that claimed the data link singnals can be detected, but besides the fact that you didn't say how,

And that's a fact - Data links do emit .
I can't explain physics behind cryptoanalysis , ELNIT , Radar MASNIT for intercepting signals
Perhaps better say - I am not knowledgeable enough to explain .
But still if you want ; go thru - Signal Analysis , COMSEC , TEMPEST related articles on net .
Especially when debate on signing "communications security agreement" with USA is going on .

Again you should have checked the context of the discussion, it was about ways to guide weapons and transfer the data to them.

Nope buddy , you claimed data-links are passive in prev post ---- See your statement [Sancho wrote "Who said data will not transfered? Radar, IRST, data links, the point is that this will be done passively."]

Hmm
You regard SPECTRA very highly then kindly explain my query "How will Spectra identify a AESA radar operating in very low probability of intercept , will it be able to identify those frequency variable+frequency hopping signals from clutter dense environment ,.
Esp can it detect at ranges before a F18 can launch AIM120 (120kms) by detecting Rafale in air by its APG79 power. ?????
If SPECTRA is not able to identify a LPI AESA radar signal at long ranges , then even AESA radar is also virtually passive .

DASS can't do that, because it is not able to locate the target as accurate

You tell us what is fraction of accuracy of DASS at different ranges ??????????
At what range does DASS operate ???????

PIRATE can do that only with external data feeded by data links, for example AWACS data

Again PIRATE can cue any Infrared missile (of whatever range ) passively at target detected by PIRATE's IRST sensor ( Range of PIRATE ?????)

Reminds me METEOR (game changing BVR A2A Missile as rumored) will lack 2 way data link on Rafale , while Gripen and Eurofighter will be able to update via 2 way links to launch and leave and still expect to have a higher probability to hit target .

 

[kingdurgaking]

I had a very dreadful dream yesterday that IAF has chosen F18... cant believe it.. i woke up and understood it was a dream

 

[sancho]

And that's a fact - Data links do emit .
I can't explain physics behind cryptoanalysis , ELNIT , Radar MASNIT for intercepting signals
Perhaps better say - I am not knowledgeable enough to explain...

So basically you don't know it exactly, especially not if any fighter could detect such signals, because that's what we are talking about. The advantages Rafale offers to complement MKI in BVR combats and passive detection features, alongside of beeing hard to detect itself, because it don't emit signals the opponent can detect gives Rafale an advantage that EF don't have.
Just like Rafales SPECTRA EWS offers advantages, that EFs DASS don't have, but it seems you still did not understand the difference, although we talked about it several times before.
SPECTRA can detect radar signals of A2A and A2G targets with the RWR and identify them via ESM, EF can do the same, because it has similar systems (although not as capable). That means both detect a possible threat, identify it and gets a basic bearing to avoid it, this mainly adds to the situational awareness of both fighters and to the self defense capabilities, but now comes the difference of both systems!
SPECTRA also uses interferometer antennas to geolocate the radar and gather accurate target datas. SPECTRA makes use of all these sensors, not only for enhanced situational awareness and self defense by avoiding these threats. It also use them for offensive actions, by providing these datas to FSO, or directly to weapons and engage the threats. That's why Rafale can do SEAD with AASM and SPECTRA, or why Rafale can engage passively in BVR, with MICA IR and SPECTRA. Both unique capabilities that EF and several other MMRCA contenders simply don't offer yet, or even will not have at all!

These unique capabilities of SPECTRA as a system and Rafale as a fighter, are the reasons why I regard both as very capable additions to Indian forces, besides several other advantages.

I don't doubt that EF would have a clear advantage over Rafale in active AESA radar detection, whenever the Captor - E radar will be developed, ready and mature enough. But as I said at the begining of this discussion, the French compromised here on purpose, in favour of other advantages and these advantages makes MKI / Rafale the way better combo for IAF in A2A and A2G!

I had a very dreadful dream yesterday that IAF has chosen F18... cant believe it.. i woke up and understood it was a dream

Must be a nightmare right?

 

[SpArK]

The Eurofighter Star Wars Helmet in the flesh​

The helmet has some 35 to 40 LED sensors mounted on the outer surface of the helmet, as shown above, which interact with other sensors placed around the cockpit.

Such sensors interact with the ones on the helmet and figure out the pilot's view.


The pilot moves his helmet around to zero in on the target.

This screen shows what the pilot sees on the helmet-mounted display​

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

we may need to increase the numbers mrca because pakistan is getting J10 and negotiating with america for more f16(don't know which model).

 

[sancho]

we may need to increase the numbers mrca because pakistan is getting J10 and negotiating with america for more f16(don't know which model).

MMRCAs are focused on north eastern borders and China, like all our recent defence procurments are. PAF will be taken care off by upgraded Mig 29 and Mirage 2000, LCA MK2 and a few MKI/MMRCA squads in addition only.

 

[GareebNawaz]

MMRCAs are focused on north eastern borders and China, like all our recent defence procurments are. PAF will be taken care off by upgraded Mig 29 and Mirage 2000, LCA MK2 and a few MKI/MMRCA squads in addition only.

Hey Sancho dont you think that it is time we give the mirage 2000 a rest? It is futile to constantly maintian and upgrade it. It is a very old aircraft and even though we can keep it up and running its quality and relaiblity will detiorate. I personally like the aircraft very much and it served us well in Kargil war, but they should be replaced by tejas (i know different aircrafts with diff roles), but we can modify tejas mk 2 right?

 

[sancho]

Hey Sancho dont you think that it is time we give the mirage 2000 a rest? It is futile to constantly maintian and upgrade it. It is a very old aircraft and even though we can keep it up and running its quality and relaiblity will detiorate. I personally like the aircraft very much and it served us well in Kargil war, but they should be replaced by tejas (i know different aircrafts with diff roles), but we can modify tejas mk 2 right?

No, imo it is a very capable multi role fighter and it's just as old as the Mig 29s that we upgrade. It still has some life left and will serve us good till LCAs (I think MK2 will serve in similar roles like Mirage 2000) and MMRCAs will be available in sufficient numbers and so far we neither had any reliability, or quality issues. French fighters are costly, but also known to be very reliable, if you go through the net and search for availability rates of Mirage 2000 and Rafale, during war times like Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, or just exercises, you always will find them over 90%. Not to forget that this field is not the best side of Russian fighters, I think M2K will remain usefull till the end of it's life.

 

[GareebNawaz]

It is simply just outdated. Simple as that. tejas mk2 needs to be inducted in huge numbers so we can retire m2k.

 

[sancho]

It is simply just outdated. Simple as that. tejas mk2 needs to be inducted in huge numbers so we can retire m2k.

Says who? It is comparable to F16 B52s and even better than LCA MK1s. The rest is simple maths, LCA MK2 will be inducted fom 2015/16 onwards and first need to replace Mig 21s, which means when that is done, we could replace Mirage 2000s as well, but then we have 2020 and the life of the Mirage and Mig are about to end anyway.

 

[GareebNawaz]

Says who? It is comparable to F16 B52s and even better than LCA MK1s. The rest is simple maths, LCA MK2 will be inducted fom 2015/16 onwards and first need to replace Mig 21s, which means when that is done, we could replace Mirage 2000s as well, but then we have 2020 and the life of the Mirage and Mig are about to end anyway.

Fighter pilot i met from lockheed martin who happens to fly f-16.

 

[sancho]

Fighter pilot i met from lockheed martin who happens to fly f-16.

I guess that explains everything. Ask the UAE why they regard their Mirage 2000-9s so highly, or the Greek Air Force with their 2000-5s, although both have latest F16s as well.
With the new upgrade our Mirage 2000s will get BVR capabilities, will carry 4 x BVR missiles and 2 x WVR missiles in any A2A mission, will get new radar (although I would have tried to get the same radar as LCA MK1 will get for commonality), HMS, latest EWS and other avionics. The fact that the whole airframe will be overhauled should include RCS reductions, so all in all, the Mirage will remain to be one of the top fighters in South Asia. I hope that we will upgrade the twin seats for strikes, with special avionics and some Scalp cruise missiles and AASM, or SPICE PGMs, to have a capable deep penetration alternatives to Jags, because I regard them as limited useful.

G8

 

[GareebNawaz]

I guess that explains everything. Ask the UAE why they regard their Mirage 2000-9s so highly, or the Greek Air Force with their 2000-5s, although both have latest F16s as well.
With the new upgrade our Mirage 2000s will get BVR capabilities, will carry 4 x BVR missiles and 2 x WVR missiles in any A2A mission, will get new radar (although I would have tried to get the same radar as LCA MK1 will get for commonality), HMS, latest EWS and other avionics. The fact that the whole airframe will be overhauled should include RCS reductions, so all in all, the Mirage will remain to be one of the top fighters in South Asia. I hope that we will upgrade the twin seats for strikes, with special avionics and some Scalp cruise missiles and AASM, or SPICE PGMs, to have a capable deep penetration alternatives to Jags, because I regard them as limited useful.

G8

exactly i agree with you that mirages are good asset to have. BTW what HMS, EWS, AASM, SPICE? i am not good with abbrevaitions.

 

[GareebNawaz]

Says who? It is comparable to F16 B52s and even better than LCA MK1s. The rest is simple maths, LCA MK2 will be inducted fom 2015/16 onwards and first need to replace Mig 21s, which means when that is done, we could replace Mirage 2000s as well, but then we have 2020 and the life of the Mirage and Mig are about to end anyway.

So the m2k is comparable to f-16? if this was so this whole mmrca tamasha would have not begun in the first place. IAF clearly wants an aircraft that can do what the mig+m2k does which would be superhornet and rafale. M2k is great asset but is already becoming a burden.

 

[Andross]

Mirage's will still have more than 20 years life in them with the upgrade and they will be state of the art with modern avionics.