Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[SpArK]

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/fighterplanes/Rafale.html

Mission-ready with low operating costs Dassault Aviation has placed special emphasis on flexible, low-cost logistic support. The Integrated Logistics Support concept chosen for Rafale is based on several factors:Easy operation with a built-in health monitoring system allowing ground crews to be instantly aware of the aircraft's condition.Extended testability of equipment and assemblies, using the Mermoz automatic tester. Flight line maintenance through equipment replacement or subassembly interchange, limited to those operations considered strictly necessary. Interoperability of ground support systems. The first aircraft have already demonstrated excellent reliability, and each maintenance evaluation confirms that specifications are met and even sometimes exceeded. Rafale, for instance, requires only seven hours of maintenance per flight hour Designed with the same philosophy as the rest of the aircraft, the M88 engines equipping Rafale offer an attractive performance/maintainability optimisation

 

[kish]

Look AESA is not that a big concern imo ( even though i know that some of the poster will disagree)...The cause according to me is that the future war will be 98% Net centric...We will have the Phalcons and the DRDO AWACs along with the numerous satellites and the huge balloons guiding our pilots..The only use of the Radar will be in close battle which i doubt IAF will want to do..
Another example is SU-30 MKI which is one of the best Fighter available even though it lacks AESA..
Plus we will always have the choice to integrate it when we have our own ready...

But there will be countermeasure of all technologies so there will always chances of close combate in any case of war having . So AESA Is imp . . . . Agreed with ur last line but how long we will take to develop our own

 

[jha]

That leaves us with Gripen, F-16 and MIG-35.

No way...

Superbug or Rafale... should win.

Just add GRIPEN and AMEN...

 

[SpArK]

Just add GRIPEN and AMEN...

I dont see much difference with LCA,.. now even with same engine too..


We will buy more Bofors from Sweden instead.

 

[jha]

But there will be countermeasure of all technologies so there will always chances of close combate in any case of war having . So AESA Is imp . . . . Agreed with ur last line but how long we will take to develop our own

What do you think is there in PHALCONs..They are AESA radars only with much higher power...
Although I could write more but sadly thats OT..

 

[jha]

I dont see much difference with LCA,.. now even with same engine too..


We will buy more Bofors from Sweden instead.

Well RAFALE looks a better choice for long term..Its just chance of getting hands on Growlers that makes my mouth a little watery..

 

[kingdurgaking]

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/fighterplanes/Rafale.html

I am not able to find any such details for EJ .. but it is one of the most modern like FADEC and has a high growth potential.. For Snecma M88-3 is still a dream...

 

[kingdurgaking]

Just add GRIPEN and AMEN...

No Gripen it will kill Tejas

 

[KS]

Even Karthik was/became an expert..

Lol...

@Kingdurgaking:

Dude agreed that the EF is a better fighter but in which role - Air superiority only with the rafale coming close behind followed by the Gripen,Mig and the Hornet.

In terms of Air-ground (which by the way is the are in which IAF is more lacking now considering that the Jaguars are already old and the Floggers are on the verge of being retired) the EF is just a good one and definitely not the best.,with the Hornet taking the top honours and Rafale coming behind it in the second place.

Now what the IAF wants is a Medium-Multirole-fighter or atleast a Air-ground fighter which can also A2A missiles.

So most probably they will/should go for the Rafale (given IAF's love affair with the M2Ks and Rafale being a very good A2A and a A2G fighter.Not the best in any,but Very good in both) and the production lines of Rafale being idle thus being able to deliver us fighters on time.

Another advantage is the experience of Dassault in making carrier-borne fighters that can be utilised for our very own N-LCA.

Another good advantage of Rafale is that the Pakistan can kiss the JF-17 avionics good bye.

So it most probably is Rafale ,followed by SH(cant ignore Unkil's twisting arm tactics) and then EFT.

My personal choice - Rafale.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Well RAFALE looks a better choice for long term..Its just chance of getting hands on Growlers that makes my mouth a little watery..

Growlers are good.. But US will not be ready... It is not as easy to deal with US compared to others... If we buy a product... we will become liable for it.. we have to keep them and use them how they wanted... Secondly as for RAFALE what is the justification you have got for long term?? It is a dead snake with no or little orders left... Buying such a product will push the liabilities on our head.. A small change or upgrade Dassault will rip has into parts ... For a successful Product Mirage the upgrade costed a huge lump some ... think about Rafael which has just 200 odd orders... so far.. and nothing concrete..

 

[KS]

Growlers are good.. But US will not be ready... It is not as easy to deal with US compared to others... If we buy a product... we will become liable for it.. we have to keep them and use them how they wanted... Secondly as for RAFALE what is the justification you have got for long term?? It is a dead snake with no or little orders left... Buying such a product will push the liabilities on our head.. A small change or upgrade Dassault will rip has into parts ... For a successful Product Mirage the upgrade costed a huge lump some ... think about Rafael which has just 200 odd orders... so far.. and nothing concrete..

Because of some future problems,you want us to buy a platform that is already plagued with problems and for whose role we already have a mighty machine in the form of MKI ?

 

[SpArK]

Growlers are good.. But US will not be ready... It is not as easy to deal with US compared to others... If we buy a product... we will become liable for it.. we have to keep them and use them how they wanted... Secondly as for RAFALE what is the justification you have got for long term?? It is a dead snake with no or little orders left... Buying such a product will push the liabilities on our head.. A small change or upgrade Dassault will rip has into parts ... For a successful Product Mirage the upgrade costed a huge lump some ... think about Rafael which has just 200 odd orders... so far.. and nothing concrete..

Its indeed nice that if we can fly a fighter which suits us most and a fighter which is not used by many in future like EF and Superbug.

Since chances of a war are not that big, most probably IAF ( not forgetting France) will be the ones flying them on shows.when every tom dick and harry in Europe comes with EF.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Lol...

@Kingdurgaking:

Dude agreed that the EF is a better fighter but in which role - Air superiority only with the rafale coming close behind followed by the Gripen,Mig and the Hornet.

In terms of Air-ground (which by the way is the are in which IAF is more lacking now considering that the Jaguars are already old and the Floggers are on the verge of being retired) the EF is just a good one and definitely not the best.,with the Hornet taking the top honours and Rafale coming behind it in the second place.

Now what the IAF wants is a Medium-Multirole-fighter or atleast a Air-ground fighter which can also A2A missiles.

So most probably they will/should go for the Rafale (given IAF's love affair with the M2Ks and Rafale being a very good A2A and a A2G fighter.Not the best in any,but Very good in both) and the production lines of Rafale being idle thus being able to deliver us fighters on time.

Another advantage is the experience of Dassault in making carrier-borne fighters that can be utilised for our very own N-LCA.

Another good advantage of Rafale is that the Pakistan can kiss the JF-17 avionics good bye.

So it most probably is Rafale ,followed by SH(cant ignore Unkil's twisting arm tactics) and then EFT.

My personal choice - Rafale.

You cant say Rafale will kiss good bye to Pakistan.. If Pakistan has got money it will sell the same to them... They have sold Mirages past and they will sell in future..

For Ground attack.... we can assume it has already got a capability equal to Rafael.. if IAF found this feature not available it would have kissed good bye while scrutinizing the features saying it did not fit there requirement...so far IAF has not rejected any Fighter so we can assume it has got the capability during the trials...

The Typhoon is a multi-role fighter with maturing air-to-ground capabilities. Earlier than scheduled, the RAF integrated the air to ground capability, based on the Rafael[138]/Ultra Electronics Litening III laser designator [139] and the Enhanced Paveway II/III laser guided bomb[140] under the "Austere" programme.[141] A more comprehensive air-to-ground attack capability including Paveway IV, EGBU-16 bombs and a higher degree of automation will be achieved for all partner nations with the Phase 1 Enhancements currently in development.[142]
The absence of such a capability is believed to have been a factor in the type's rejection from Singapore's fighter competition in 2005. At the time it was claimed that Singapore was concerned about the delivery timescale and the ability of the Eurofighter partner nations to fund the current capability packages.[143] With the planned Phase 2 Enhancements Eurofighter GmbH hopes to increase the appeal of Typhoon to possible export customers and to make the aircraft more useful to partner air forces.[142]


If Production line of RAFAEL is empty it shows the success of there product.. what will you prefer if you are a business owner? a product which is successfully running across many companies/prospect customers.. or a product deployed in only one company and hoping for prospect customers?? I guess any owner will logically choose the former ... due to many reasons...

 

[kingdurgaking]

Because of some future problems,you want us to buy a platform that is already plagued with problems and for whose role we already have a mighty machine in the form of MKI ?

Oke ... Let us take a pratical example.. You buy a car from me which is equal to that of a "night rider".. and i give on a condition dont ride this car on these roads.. and i will come and inspect every year .. you should not add your gizmo without my permission etc etc?? there is one more car like BMW intended to become like "night rider" which is having some problem but hopefully it will get resolved some day who knows may be not... now what you will choose.. If you choose first one.. I accept for you US gizmos are good.. I will prefer second one.. i want some thing that should be under my control.. because you have paid and purchased it... why the heck I will come and show my
b u m b s to you.... we are just buyer and seller... you bought it for a reason and you will use it where and however you want.. who the heck am i decide ?

 

[kingdurgaking]

Its indeed nice that if we can fly a fighter which suits us most and a fighter which is not used by many in future like EF and Superbug.

Since chances of a war are not that big, most probably IAF ( not forgetting France) will be the ones flying them on shows.when every tom dick and harry in Europe comes with EF.

Bro you are wrong.. Lets take an example... we both are project managers for a product(same flavour different company)... I have got only 2 clients.. and you have got 10 clients... Now an upgrade has to be created to follow some government norms... so both of us have to deliver it.... since i have 2 clients... so i will end up charging them more for the upgrade or i will give a less capable upgrade to meet the cost... While you have sufficient clients to charge and you will give you a good quality upgrade for a good cost.. so who is the beneficiary here?? so where does India stand here?