Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[marcos98]

GOOD NEWS FOR SUPER HORNET

Boeing has radar reduction efforts for Super Hornet
FARN10: Boeing does strike fighters - The DEW Line
The title of the briefing was "The Strike Fighter Evolution", and the briefer was Boeing vice president and general manager for global strike systems Shelley Lavender. In my experience, a briefing with such a title is unpromising: Lots of generic information and references to "generations", but little in the way of news.

But this briefing was different, as shown by this tantalizing slide:
Don't get too excited about the line on F-22. No, Boeing is not the prime contractor for the F-22, but it's responsible for building one-third of the fuselage and integrating the avionics. In the latter role, Boeing expects a thriving business for F-22 modernization programs in the years ahead.

But pay close attention to the last line on slide. It's the one labeled "propietary" and indicates that it's in production today. We don't know what "it" is, and, of course, Lavender declined to elaborate or clarify.

And that may not have been the most interesting slide in Boeing's brief. Take a look at the one below, and note the bullet point for "enclosed weapons pod" and image.

 

[jha]

MMRCA Lobbing : Mike Mullen, Holbrooke on way to India​

It is set to be a week of India-US diplomacy as the US’ topmost military commander, Admiral Mike Mullen, and Special Envoy Richard Holbrooke come here for talks with Indian officials ahead of US President Barack Obama’s visit to New Delhi in November. Holbrooke, Obama’s special representative for Holbrooke’s visit comes close on the heels of the discussions between External Affairs Minister SM Krishna and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Kabul on Tuesday.

Holbrooke is likely to meet Krishna, Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao and senior officials in the external affairs ministry.

The two sides are likely to review the situation in Afghanistan following Tuesday’s Kabul conference that focused on handing over security of the country to Afghan forces by 2014.

The recent foreign-minister level discussions between India and Pakistan, which also figured in talks between Clinton and Krishna, will come up for detailed discussions.

The talks between Krishna and Qureshi on July 15 deadlocked on issues of terror and Jammu and Kashmir, without any visible roadmap for dialogue.

In view of the July 2011 deadline for beginning phased withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan, the US is keen that India and Pakistan continue their dialogue as it will deprive Islamabad of an excuse not to concentrate on targeting the insurgents’ sanctuaries inside its territory.

Mullen is likely to meet Defence Minister A.K. Antony and National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon.

Mullen’s visit comes at a time when both sides are looking at expanding defence cooperation across a swathe of areas.

The visit also coincides with intensified lobbying for the $10 billion contract for 126 fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Afghanistan and Pakistan, flies in here from Kabul on Wednesday. Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS), arrives here on Thursday to discuss expanded defence cooperation between the two countries.

 

[marcos98]

OK.......GOOD NEWS FOR EF2000

Eurofighter and Euroradar to Develop Latest Generation AESA Radar

HALLBERGMOOS, Germany: An innovative cutting edge AESA radar system, reconfirms Eurofighter as the most advanced aircraft available on the market.

Eurofighter GmbH and Euroradar, together with their industrial partners, have begun full scale development of a latest generation Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. The target in-service date for the new radar is 2015 to meet the requirements of Eurofighter Partner Nations and export customers.

Eurofighter CEO Enzo Casolini said of the decision “This is an important step in the Eurofighter programme and will ensure that Typhoon continues to lead the way as the world’s best new generation multi-role combat aircraft. In consultation with our Core Nation customers we can offer an AESA capability that far exceeds any other radar available. This capability will mean that Eurofighter is in the best possible position when offering Typhoon to the export market. The in-service date means we are perfectly positioned to respond to the complex and demanding requirements of the air forces”.

The decision means that Eurofighter will further develop the capability of the Typhoon aircraft to enhance its radar performance, building on preliminary development and flight testing undertaken since 2007. Although the current Mechanically Scanned (M-Scan) radar is considered to be best in class, AESA technology will see the Typhoon's radar capabilities developed even further. The planned AESA radar will offer a variety of benefits over M-Scan, including increased detection and tracking ranges, advanced air-to-surface capability and enhanced electronic protection measures.

The new radar will retain the key features of the existing Captor radar architecture in order to exploit the maturity of the current system and will use latest generation technology to provide a full complement of air-to-air and air-to-surface modes. The large array can be accommodated easily in the Typhoon’s radome and, being fitted on a repositioner, will provide an extremely wide field of regard. This will see Typhoon's combat effectiveness enhanced even further, allowing the Typhoon to outperform any other aircraft available on the market. The radar will offer customers the freedom to retrofit their existing Typhoons when required. The radar will have significant growth potential and both existing and new customers will be able to participate in tailoring the radar to meet their individual operational requirements.

Euroradar is a multi-national consortium lead by SELEX Galileo, a Finmeccanica Company, alongside EADS Defence Electronics and Indra. Euroradar has delivered over 250 Captor mechanically scanned radars into the Typhoon programme to date and this experience will ensure a timely and smooth transition to AESA.

Eurofighter Typhoon is the world's most advanced new generation real multi-role/swing-role combat aircraft available on the market and has been ordered by six nations (Germany, Italy, Spain, United Kingdom, Austria and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia). With 707 aircraft under contract, it is Europe’s largest military collaborative programme and delivers leading-edge technology, strengthening Europe’s aerospace industry in the global competition.

More than 100,000 jobs in 400 companies are secured by the programme. Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH manages the programme on behalf of the Eurofighter Partner Companies: Alenia Aeronautica/Finmeccanica, BAE Systems, EADS CASA and EADS Deutschland, Europe’s foremost aerospace companies with a total turnover of approx. EUR 88 billion (2008).

 

[SpArK]

Do you guys have a date for that report that was supposedly to be out in a few days time as reported earlier?

 

[CONNAN]

I was going through an earlier post in the LCA thread about the race for developing an AESA radar for the LCA,where the govt. has called only two manufacturers for their offers (Israeli or EADS only for the LCA MK-2),might offer a clue to the IAF's preference which could have ramifications on the MMRCA contest. US manufacturers reportedly couldn't get their govt's. clearance.That should scuttle both US birds,plus the French,Russian (technical) and Italian (financial) didn't make the grade for differing reasons.If these radars were rejected for the above reasons,it stands to reason that they will impact upon the evaluation by the IAF for the MMRCA,where an AESA radar is a key requirement.If true,then it is kaput for the Super Horny,as frankly the Falcon is fatally handicapped being flown by the Pakis.The fact that the Eyeties couldn't come up with the moolah for developing the SELEX radar casts a shadow on the Gripen.Only a sudden about turn by Ombaba when he visits India might alllow the F-18SH to survive to the next round.This decision on the LCA is an important one and shouldn't be ignored as a key factor in the MMRCA race.If the EJ is also chosen as the engine for the LCA MK-2,then the chances of the Typhoon will improve dramatically,especially if both radar and engine are selected for the LCA,it would make enormous common and commercial sense to standardise upon the same for both LCA and MMRCA.

The only fly in the ointment is if the Israeli radar is picked and the Russians offer it on the MIG-35,while the EJ wins the engine contract,which looks likely especially as EADS is involved as a consultant to the LCA project.

 

[CONNAN]

The GOI/IAF have spelt out their twin-track preferences very clearly (east and west) for "safety in numbers" policy,with huge orders for Russian Sukhois (incl.Russian radars),plus more with the 5th-gen fighter and upgrades to existing MIG-29s.That leaves us with Mirage-2000 upgrades,and other UGs for Jags,plus the LCA and MMRCA.The expectation is that a western nation/consortium will help us with TOT for the bells and whistles for both latter programmes.Our desi AESA radar seems to be some way off.Synergy in linking the MMRCA deal with other projects/acquisitions seems to be the method that some contestants are using.
1.Russia with Su-30s.MIG-29 upgrades and the PAK-FA 5th-gen fighter,plus MIG-35.
2.France with M-2000 UGs plus Rafale.
3.Eurofighter/EADS with the Typhoon and offer of LCA engines and consultancy,plus new RR engines for the Jag UG.
4.US with transports (C-17,C-130-Js,plus Honywell for Jag UG) and F-18/F-16.

The first three conetstants seem to have more synergy/commonality,as they already have their earlier aircraft/key components/weaponry in service (Jaguar,MIG series and Sukhois,M-2000).The Swedes are new to the nation and the US are trying to offer a comprehensive defence package that will include helos and artillery.Not that the others also have their varying wares in service with the IN and IA.This key factor s/c will have an impact upon the price and the one who can leverage this most will be hard to beat.

 

[CONNAN]

There seems to be a disconnect between what IAF wants out of this deal and what the GoI wants.

IAF wants an aircraft that it can acquire in numbers to not only keep squadron strength from falling, but to help increase that to 42. It probably envisages many more numbers than the initial 126. IAF also wants something easy and cheap to operate and maintain. It wants high tech (AESA) to come in as part of the deal. And it would want to incorporate its existing arsenal of AAMs and other desi tech into that plane (to customize the plane).

This points to a single-engine fighter, similar to IAF's initial choice of M2K. The planes closest to that spec are the Gripen and the F-16. Choosing Gripen wouldn't buy India any geopolitical goodwill, and it comes with the baggage of a US engine. Buying F-16 would make US happy, but then the Pakis operate a not too dissimilar version in the block 52, and getting it to work with Russian and Astra AAMs and incorporating other desi tech into it could be tricky. Not to mention the displeasure of having to deal with all the end-user agreements etc.

Mig-35 is the cheapest of the two-engined fighters, and Russians would give almost anything that the Indians asked them to in order to win this deal. But IAF is wary of the Russians, since Russian equipment has always given them service and maintenance headaches. IAF already has access to Russian tech via Su30MKI, Mig-29K and FFGA. What new tech would this deal provide? Probably not much.

The Typhoon and Rafale, while great fighters, would be very costly to buy initially, and to operate. They do offer great geopolitical and military advantages, especially the Typhoon. 12 billion dollars would probably buy only half as many as IAF would want. The F/A-18, while somewhat cheaper than the above two, is a much older airframe. If one is splurging and buying a two-engine plane, better to splurge a little more and buy the latest tech. F/A-18 also has all the disadvantages of buying from US.

The only way out then, to make both IAF happy and for GoI to fulfill its aim of leveraging this deal for geopolitical advantages, is to escalate the total price of this deal to close to $18-20 billion. That would get IAF the number of airframes it wants, and would allow GoI complete freedom to choose the deal that is most geo-politically advantageous.

Will the Indian govt. be willing to spend that much on this deal? We should ask that if it didn't intend to, then why include the two-engined planes in the fray in the first place? GoI must have been looking ahead and asking itself - can we afford this deal considering that the time-frame is 2014-2020, with 8% average minimum GDP growth? The answer it came up with must have been a Yes.

The only other explanation is that GoI always intended for a single-engined fighter to win the deal, but took the others along for a ride. Just doesn't make sense, and the manufacturers spending hundreds of millions on trials are not exactly fools. They must have received an assurance that their products would be considered if they pass technical trials.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

why don't u guies post link with your post...

 

[CONNAN]

The MMRCA contest therefore must focus upon core requirements which are fundamentally increasing the inventory whch has fallen dangerously low,with affordable multi-role aircraft that can remain in service for at least two decades.The future stealth advantage is being taken care of by the 5th-gen fighter which is already flying and within 5-6 years time should also be entering into IAF service.The LCA programme is where we can toy to an extent with foreign tech in developing our own fighter.We cannot afford gold-plated aircraft that cost the earth for the illusionary sake of acquiring "superior tech",or pleasing some nations to recommend us for a UNSC seat-which in any case is going to be very devalued in the future with many new incumbents and the poss. that we will not have a veto as right.

The manner in which the Hawk AJT local production has taken place is a stark reminder that even western OEM suppliers "welsh" on the deal (unacceptable quailty of components supplied),drastically afffecting local production,only 12 built in two years.In spending $10billion+ on such a deal,we must take the maximum care to see that our money is well spent and that the risk element is reduced to the minimum,when it comes to possible sanctions,ease of induction of aircraft,weaponry and technology into service and the logistic and after-sales support.From my observations thus far,three fit the bill better.

 

[SpArK]

why don't u guies post link with your post...

Its from BR.. so link is not important, but the content is.

 

[CONNAN]

why don't u guies post link with your post...

who and which post and BR links are not allowed here

 

[SpArK]

who and which post and BR links are not allowed here

He was referring to the posts you have written, taken from BR.

 

[CONNAN]

He was referring to the posts you have written, taken from BR.

yup but i want to highlight the good points

 

[soaringphnx]

I decided not to post more - whatever ??

soaringphnx , i do appreciate your love for Rafale .

But dear you should have checked this forum / net before selectively posting article .

There were six DACT flown , one was won by F22 while 5 resulted in draw . by AdA air force
Air-Cosmos writes 2 victory for F22 and 4 draws .


You missed to check what USAF pilot said about exercise

F-22 Raptors return from training in Middle East | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com



Read the link , I posted . There is a video of that as well .

Second -
You see this article below

and this is the translation

"Although French aviators showed off a great deal about the "beatings" inflicted by their Rafales on British Typhoons during the last ATLC exercise in the United Arab Emirates, very little was said about the confrontation between Dassault's delta-wing aircraft and the American F-22As. In out-of-visual-range engagements, the American Raptors did not even condescend to turn on their radars, remaining invisible to the Rafale's RBE2 [radar system] and Spectra [self-defense system] while precisely locating the electromagnetic waves from the French fighter, thus securing their AMRAAM [missile] launches from a secure distance. On two occasions at least, the F-22As also "tangled" with the Rafales in close combat, securing a "gun kill" each time without much difficulty."

link - Rafale v Typhoon v F22 and the rest...Was there ever a conclusion? - Page 25 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

Air-Cosmos changed their opinion later

Third -
That shot is from OSF not from HUD/Piper , means no missile in WVR simulation would be engaged .
This image is taken when in group flying .

A hud image where clear shot is there is like this below -

See the bearing+range on HUD .

Just to make you happy - That was Eurofighter nailed by Rafale in above image .

Conclusion - 6 DACT - 2 won by F22 rest draw / Jets were withdrawn .

On page 140 of this thread , our Super Mod Blain2 explained it as well . Why bring that again ???

He gave you same reply

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-139.html#post965673

Sorry, I didn't know it was posted earlier. Won't happen again!

P.S. I am not of the opinion that the Rafale is superior to the F-22. I too agree that the F-22 is the most advanced and most expensive fighter in service today.

 

[jha]

Super Hornet mods added to export list​

Boeing announced here yesterday a set of potential enhancements to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet that it will market to export prospects. They include an enclosed weapons pod that is intended to lower the aircraft’s radar cross section. The countries currently evaluating or expressing interest in the Super Hornet include Brazil, Denmark, India, Japan, Kuwait, Malaysia, and Qatar.

There are six elements to what Boeing calls the “Super Hornet International Road Map.” The first is already under development and was seen by AIN during a visit to St. Louis last month. This is the Next Generation cockpit, which brings to the F-18 the large (11- by 19-inch) one-piece, touchscreen display, seen previously only on the Lockheed Martin F-35. Such a display helps improve the fused presentation of the integrated sensor suite that is already a big Super Hornet feature. The new cockpit could be made available for deliveries in 2013, according to Shelley Lavender, Boeing’s vice-president Global Strike Systems.

The other enhancements would be available from 2015, she said. These include the enclosed weapons pod, which would be carried on the centerline station, and may possibly be partially faired into the fuselage. It is sized for four AIM-120 AMRAAMs, but can also take air-to-ground weapons. According to Mike Gibbons, the Boeing F/A-18 program manager, an element of stealth was already designed into the Super Hornet. “We inserted some offerings from our Joint Strike Fighter proposal, in terms of shaping and materials,” he said in St Louis last month. Stealth on the aircraft is complemented by the active electronic warfare system , he added.

Conformal fuel tanks can straddle the upper fuselage, and confer an additional 10 percent range, according to Lavender. An enhanced performance engine (EPE) version of the GE F414 would provide a 20-percent increase in thrust. India has requested this extra power. The final two enhancements on offer are an internal IRST (infrared search and track) system, carried in the nose, and a spherical missile and laser warning system, housed above and (presumably also) below the airplane.