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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Why didn't IAF go for Thales/SAGEM OSF infrared search and track system on upgraded Mirage 2000 I/TI?
 
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Case for Su-34 as MMRCA | idrw.org

P.S- In hypothetical secenarion where Su 34 is selected instead of Rafale in MMRCA, the SU 34 cant be called MMRCA.


It should be called HMRCA
 
Airbus speeds sale of Dassault Aviation stake to raise €1.64bn

Airbus has raised €1.64bn from the accelerated sale of shares in Dassault Aviation, the family-controlled French group that makes the Rafale fighter jet.

The European aerospace group sold 1.61m Dassault shares at €1,030 each, bringing its stake down from 42 per cent to about 24.6 per cent. Dassault shares closed unchanged at €1,240. The stock sale, conducted through a book building exercise, was increased from 1.38m shares during Wednesday as it became apparent that there was greater demand than had been expected.

Airbus has held shares in Dassault since 2000, in an arrangement designed to protect the French state’s interests in the strategically important defence and aviation group. The French government has a 12 per cent stake in Airbus. It has no shareholding in Dassault, which is 55 per cent owned by the Dassault family.

Tom Enders, chief executive of Airbus, has long wanted to sell the Dassault stake, as it had little synergy with the pan-European aerospace and defence group.

Airbus and Dassault are competitors in defence. Airbus is a key shareholder in the Eurofighter consortium that makes a fighter jet competing against Rafale.

However, Mr Enders has had to wait for Franco-German state involvement in Airbus to wane and it was only last year that the company started the process of selling down its original 46 per cent stake in Dassault — potentially worth €5bn.

The move came after TCI, the activist hedge fund, urged Airbus in 2013 to sell the Dassault stake and redistribute the money to shareholders, saying it was “a poor use of capital” with “no synergies” and “limited strategic value”.

The Dassault stake pays a dividend but last year Airbus described the shareholding as “non-strategic”.

The aerospace group began selling some of its Dassault shares in November, raising €794m.

Airbus sold the shares at the top of the range, originally set at €980-€1,030. Dassault will buy about 460,000 of the shares — roughly 5 per cent of its share capital — at €980 each. Trading in Dassault has been suspended until Friday.

Dassault this year won its first export order for its Rafale jet, selling 24 to Egypt. In 2012 the Indian government chose Rafale ahead of Eurofighter but the contract has not been sealed.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cdd3043a-d2cb-11e4-a792-00144feab7de.html#axzz3VTL4UDwS
 
What does European aerospace know that Dassault doesn't ? :azn:

Is the eurofighter making a come back in MMRCA ? I heard Modi was seriously looking into their offer. :P
 
What does European aerospace know that Dassault doesn't ? :azn:

Is the eurofighter making a come back in MMRCA ? I heard Modi was seriously looking into their offer. :P

Its almost the same technology , Be it Rafale or Eurofighter .

Rafale the next logical step under 'Make in India': Dassault

Dassault CEO also underlined his company's contribution to the Nrendra Modi-led government's 'Make in India' policy and said the Mirage upgrade programme would serve it as the rest of the fleet would be upgraded in Bengaluru and his firm and Thales would offer their complete support.

A deal on Rafale would be a step in that direction, Trappier said.
"Rafale aircraft has been chosen by India after a comprehensive selection process in the frame of the MMRCA competition and exclusive negotiation is ongoing.


"Rafale is the next logical step. HAL and Indian industries will contribute to the Make in India policy by developing and manufacturing it locally," he said.
Trapper hoped that the contract would be signed soon.

"It's 95 per cent finalised. The contract is being reviewed with the Defence Ministry (India). I prefer we take time now than all the clarifications coming later," he told reporters at a Dassault facility here.

Trappier said he was greatly satisfied that Indian Air Force is keen to get hold of the aircraft.

"You can imagine my great satisfaction to hear from Indian Air Force Chief that he wants the combat-proven fighter Rafale, a logical step for the Indian Air force...I believe that contract finalisation could happen soon," Trappier said adding later that he was told during the Aero India in Bengaluru that the organisation was "desperate" to get new fighters.
 
Its almost the same technology , Be it Rafale or Eurofighter .

Rafale the next logical step under 'Make in India': Dassault

Dassault CEO also underlined his company's contribution to the Nrendra Modi-led government's 'Make in India' policy and said the Mirage upgrade programme would serve it as the rest of the fleet would be upgraded in Bengaluru and his firm and Thales would offer their complete support.

A deal on Rafale would be a step in that direction, Trappier said.
"Rafale aircraft has been chosen by India after a comprehensive selection process in the frame of the MMRCA competition and exclusive negotiation is ongoing.


"Rafale is the next logical step. HAL and Indian industries will contribute to the Make in India policy by developing and manufacturing it locally," he said.
Trapper hoped that the contract would be signed soon.

"It's 95 per cent finalised. The contract is being reviewed with the Defence Ministry (India). I prefer we take time now than all the clarifications coming later," he told reporters at a Dassault facility here.

Trappier said he was greatly satisfied that Indian Air Force is keen to get hold of the aircraft.

"You can imagine my great satisfaction to hear from Indian Air Force Chief that he wants the combat-proven fighter Rafale, a logical step for the Indian Air force...I believe that contract finalisation could happen soon," Trappier said adding later that he was told during the Aero India in Bengaluru that the organisation was "desperate" to get new fighters.


After 3 years of negotiating, if its only 95% complete, its bad news in my book. It should have been 100% complete if they were serious about the deal.
 
After 3 years of negotiating, if its only 95% complete, its bad news in my book. It should have been 100% complete if they were serious about the deal.

i think this has more to do with the upgradation of Mirage2000. HAL will upgrade the remaining Mirage2000 fighter planes in India. I think 47.
 
Why didn't IAF go for Thales/SAGEM OSF infrared search and track system on upgraded Mirage 2000 I/TI?
The IRST is currently not in production and integrating the FSO or the RBE 2 radar requires a re-designed nose section, since more space is needed. Too complicated for a fighter with 10 years time left. It does have "some" IRST capability with MICA IR though.
 
India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems
The SU-30MKIs constantly break down

by THOMAS NEWDICK

In the past decade, the Indian Air Force has bought hundreds of Su-30MKI fighter jets from Russia. Some of Moscow’s most advanced export fighters, the warplanes should have helped New Delhi strengthen its military.

But it turns out, the twin-engine jets have failure-prone motors. Their AL-31FP engines break down with alarming frequency.

In March, Indian defense minister Manohar Parrikar revealed the propulsion problems.

There have been no fewer than 69 investigations involving engine failures since 2012, according to Parrikar. Between January 2013 and December 2014 alone, the Indian Air Force recorded 35 technical problems with the turbofans.

A shortfall in India’s Sukhoi fleet is a big deal. Especially at a time when India’s fighter squadrons are shrinking, and plans to induct the French Rafale fighter have stalled.

The Su-30MKI remains the pride of the Indian Air Force. Russia’s Irkut Corporation initially supplied the jets, and today Hindustan Aeronautics Limited produces them under license.

It was on New Delhi’s behest that Russia revamped the Cold War-era Su-27 into this modern “superfighter,” with thrust-vectoring engines, canard foreplanes, a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, electronically scanned radar and air-to-ground weapons.

India had to wait until 2002 before it started to receive the Su-30MKI in the form it had originally requested. The Air Force is set to receive 272 Su-30MKIs.

India also bought 18 austere Su-30K fighters without the multi-role capabilities or thrust-vectoring engines.

Of the Su-30MKIs, Russia has delivered 50. HAL is producing the rest at its Nasik facility, where aircraft continue to roll off the line. With around 15 to 20 aircraft handed over every year, the current orders are set to finish around 2019 or 2020.


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Above and below — Indian Air Force Su-30 fighters. Wikimedia photos. At top — Indian Air Force Su-30MKIs perform at an air show. Irkut photo
So what exactly is wrong with the engines? We have a pretty good idea.

Parrikar attributed the failures to faulty bearings that contaminated the plane’s oil supply. It seems that metal fatigue led to tiny pieces of metal shearing off the friction-reducing bearings, which then entered the oil system.

This accounted for 33 of 69 engine failures.

Another 11 failures were the result of engine vibrations, while eight more arose from a lack of pressure in that same lubricating oil. New Delhi has not revealed the cause for the remaining 17 incidents.


The Air Force responded by taking the issue up with NPO Saturn, the Russian manufacturer. According to Parrikar, the company has come up with nine different modifications to help solve the problems.

India has already incorporated these “fixes” into 25 engines built at its plant in Koraput. In the future, the engines should benefit from an improved lubrication system, superior-quality oil and bearings that are a better fit.

However, a more general worry for the Air Force is the poor serviceability of the Su-30MKI fleet — meaning the number of aircraft actually available for operations on a daily basis.

Based on figures given by Parrikar, only 110 Su-30MKIs are “operationally available.” From a total of more than 200 aircraft that Irkut and HAL had delivered by February 2015, that means 56 percent are ready at any given time.

India’s Su-30MKI fleet has suffered five crashes since 2009.

To be sure, it’s not a great record, but it’s also not notably bad — especially when compared with the attrition rates of the Indian Air Force’s older fighters. It’s unclear what role, if any, the engine problems played in these accidents.

What’s perhaps more significant is the fact that engine deficiencies have bugged the Flanker from the start.

“The initial batch of 18 Su-30Ks and 10 Su-30MKIs were grounded as a result of engine issues, that were subsequently put down to design problems,” Indian defense blogger Shiv Aroor wrote.
At the end of last year, the Air Force’s fighter strength dipped to just 25 squadrons — its lowest in recent history. India has an officially sanctioned requirement for 42 fighter squadrons, and maintained 32 until recently.

As New Delhi withdraws its older MiG-21s and MiG-27s from service, the total number could fall to just 11 squadrons by 2024.

Casting an eye toward Pakistan and China, a parliamentary committee in New Delhi has argued that 45 fighter squadrons are the minimum India needs to cope with the demands of a “two-front collusive threat.”

Either way, that means India needs a lot of Su-30MKIs — and the jets have to work.
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India wouldn’t have to worry as much about its Su-30MKI fleet if it managed to import fighters from elsewhere. For years, New Delhi has unsuccessfully tried to nail down a program to buy 126 Rafale fighters from France.

Of these, Dassault Aviation would supply 18, while HAL would build the remainder. But despite announcements from both the French manufacturer and India, the deal is nowhere close to turning into reality.

As far as Moscow is concerned, the protracted Rafale deal has presented Russia with an opportunity to try and elbow the French out of the way, and sell yet more Su-30MKIs to India.

Indian officials have insisted that the Rafale is the only solution to its near-term fighter needs. But that changed at the turn of the year when Parrikar told reporters that an additional Su-30 buy could provide a solution — if negotiations with Paris were to terminally collapse.

The statement came as a surprise to the Air Force, which has long been wed to the Rafale, which it presents as the tailor-made solution to its fighter needs. On this occasion, the Air Force countered that the Su-30MKI and Rafale programs were indivisible, and fulfilled two different requirements.

But if the Sukhoi’s engine problems aren’t fixed soon, then this option might become less attractive. Perhaps as an insurance policy, Russia is now pushing India to buy its Su-35 — a more advanced, single-seat fighter based on the same Flanker airframe.

Regardless of what happens, the Russian-designed jet will have a place in the inventory for some time to come, despite its problems. There simply are lots of Su-30MKIs on order. India is also keen to pursue an upgrade for the jet, known as the Super 30.

This will add a new computer system and upgraded mission avionics, including an advanced active electronically-scanned array radar. Other changes will include revised countermeasure systems and “stealth” coatings to reduce radar signature.

New weapons will include the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile.

The 80-kilometer-range Astra was first successfully flight-tested from a Su-30MKI in May last year and destroyed a target drone. It was a good bit of PR for the Indian jet at a time when it needed it the most.

While the Astra will eventually arm most Indian fighters, one other missile will likely remain the sole preserve of the Su-30MKI. The Sukhoi is currently the only Indian Air Force fighter able to lift the heavyweight Brahmos-A, an Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile.

But let’s back up for a second. Why did Parrikar mention the Su-30MKI as a possible replacement for the Rafale if the negotiations collapse? He knows the Russian fighters have loads of problems — as does everyone else. So that doesn’t make any sense.

Unless … you want to scare India’s politicians enough to finally close the deal on the Rafale.

India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems — War Is Boring — Medium

Rafale: Thales reduces the loop of information
Published on 03/27/2015 at 10:37 by Jean-Marc Tanguy

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Commissioned in 2011, the Reco NG pod allows the collection of digital images at high and low altitude, high speed shooting day and night as well as video surveillance. It is constantly updated. the version deployed to Iraq © JL Brunet - Air Army
The speed of diffusion loop and processing information acquired by airborne sensors is essential for efficient operations. Responding to an upstream study plan (PEA) of the DGA notified in April 2014, Thales has developed a solution so that the Rafale can transmit much faster than before the images of his Reco-NG reconnaissance pod.

Rapid transmission of information taken from a theater to a command center and control (C2) allows decision making and therefore many fast action. Dubbed Daétris, the solution developed by Thales responds to a need expressed following the operations in Libya and Mali.

Reco-NG pod Rafale already has a wireless transmission capacity of its image stream (TMA6000) collected during reconnaissance. Problem: this transmission was limited in scope. The aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle or deployed an advanced ground base can pick the Rafale pod images up to a distance of 150 to 200 km, still well before the return of the aircraft to the ground. Remains that beyond this distance, the Rafale can not be transmitted, with the risk of real loss of interest information captured by the Rafale, especially in "time sensitive target."

Thanks to the solution of Thales, the pod will now send its output to a flying tanker aircraft with an additional antenna. On board, a SAIM bracket (support system multisensor interpretation) will be installed with an operator who will select the most relevant images in order not to saturate the binding of tanker SATCOM (already in place), which has a slower rate.

The images can then be received in record time by one before C2 (deployed in the theater) and rear (air operations center in Lyon Mont Verdun), as well as the intelligence community (DRM DGSE, etc).Thales believes that time to gain a factor of 4, which in a military context provides a significant advantage.

Flights aboard a tanker strategic air forces will power next summer for a trial 12-month campaign of experiments conducted by the EHIC (flight test center Military).

Especially such a solution opens new horizons, and Rafale could, for example, transmit video images of a targeting pod. The Airbus MRTT will it, comes standard with this ability.

Translated from French
Rafale : Thales réduit la boucle du renseignement - Air et Cosmos

RECO-NG pod
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Courtesy Olybrius for finding both articles.
 
India’s New Fighters Have Serious Engine Problems
The SU-30MKIs constantly break down

by THOMAS NEWDICK

So after Russian PR against the Rafale, now western PR against the Su 30. :rolleyes:

Fact check:

- Rafale inducted in 2001, around 133 fighters operational if I'm not wrong, with 5 crashes
- Su 30MKI inducted in 2002, around 200 fighters opperational in IAF today, with 5 crashes

For both, most of the crashes were caused by pilot errors and not technical problems, but with the higher numbers of the MKI, it rather shows an impressive technical reliability for a Russian fighter!
 

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