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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

France doesn't really have the Capacity to produce that many in a few years
If ceo of Dassault decide it, 33 Rafale can be produced/year in France.... Have India enough money just to baught half of that?

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Towed decoy ? :o: IRST or OSF ?
@Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Taygibay
First time I read something about towed decoy for rafale....

Is it possible to have pirate irst in rafale?
Absolutely NOT. We can study and produce a same class product. Maybe with India.
 
If ceo of Dassault decide it, 33 Rafale can be produced/year in France.... Have India enough money just to baught half of that?


First time I read something about towed decoy for rafale....
They need to meet orders for Qatar(24) and Egypt(24), And also more for France. They can only build 33 a year.

India bought 36 off-the-shelf, Which will arrive in 2019 and be completed in 2022.

I don't think they have confirmed for more then 36 as of now.
 
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After four years of difficult negotiations – as well as even a collapse of talks (over the contract for 126 aircraft) – the Government of India has inked an $8.85 billion U.S. deal with France for 36 Dassault Rafale multi-role fighters. The first batch of fighters will be delivered to India by September 2019, the remainder will be received over the subsequent 30 months.

Within the contract itself, $3.84 billion U.S. will be spent on the aircraft themselves and an additional $2 billion will be put towards the requisite maintenance and logistics infrastructure to operate the fighter. Dassault has also guaranteed that the Indian Air Force (IAF)’s Rafales will maintain a 75% availability rate.

$1.9 billion will be spent on IAF-specific customization, such as the integration of an Elbit helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system and other internal subsystems.

A munitions package worth $800 million U.S. is also being acquired, this will include Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles and SCALP air-launched cruise missiles.

According to Defense News, which had spoken to a source in the Indian Ministry of Defence, this will be divided with 30% of the contract’s value will be invested in Indian military aeronautics research and development and 20% will be committed towards production contracts for the Indian defence industry.

Notes, Comments & Analysis:

When the Indian Air Force (IAF) originally selected Rafale as the winner of its much coveted Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) requirement, it had intended to procure 126 fighters. In addition, most of those fighters were supposed to have been built locally in India.

Disagreements, particularly over cost, resulted in that program falling through, but in its place, the IAF has succeeded in securing two squadrons off-the-shelf as well as a solid commercial offset package, which will channel 50% of the contract’s value as a stimulus for the Indian economy.

Moreover, India’s defence industry will benefit from close to $4.5 billion in commercial offset investments from France’s leading defence vendors. This investment will not only offer work contracts for the Indian private sector but in some areas (e.g. aircraft electronics and propulsion), it could result in an infusion of valuable technology research and development support and expertise.

It would be surprising if the IAF opts for another medium-weight platform. At this stage, the Rafale is a proven and relatively well-adopted platform (thanks to recent orders from Egypt and Qatar). By investing in the maintenance and logistics infrastructure to operate the first two squadrons, the IAF would be well advised to gradually build its Rafale fleet. A look from the Indian Navy could be interesting as well.

Moreover, India’s offset clause could be utilized to accrue supra-contractual benefits. Under the current contract, the French defence industry will commit 20% of the contract’s value to production work in India. However, additional Rafale orders can be leveraged as a means to gain added concessions, such as local assembly and/or manufacturing as well as parts manufacturing, which can, in turn, be connected into the Rafale’s global supply chain. In other words, India could leverage additional orders to access the supply market for third-party users such as Qatar and Egypt.

Technology wise, the Rafale will imbue the IAF will the following operational gains above its current fleet:

First, the Rafale is marketed with a markedly high availability rate (with the French guaranteeing a 75% availability rate), which in contrast to the troubled Su-30MKI offers the IAF a platform it can depend on upon in rapid mobilization as well as under stressful wartime conditions.

Second, the Rafale boasts a very strong balance of range and payload, enabling it to effectively take on a wide range of air-to-air and air-to-surface mission roles (which the IAF will exploit via the Meteor, SCALP, and other munitions).

Third, which is is not exclusive to the Rafale in the context of the IAF, but the fighter’s potent sensor and electronics warfare and countermeasures suite places it as both a highly survivable and threatening asset.

India’s private sector and state-owned industries should be able to draw upon the expertise and technology support of Dassault, Thales, MBDA, and Safran Group, which may enable the Kaveri and other programs to overcome specific developmental challenges in the short-term, which can in turn create space for the Indian research base to rectify those obstacles indigenously over the long-term without pressure from the armed forces’ short-term operational needs.

This will directly feed into the Tejas, enabling it to not only come to fruition but to enter service as the solution the IAF had envisioned in recent years. India’s next-generation manned and unmanned aircraft programs will also benefit in various direct and indirect forms.

Overall, the Rafale contract is certainly expensive, but with 50% of it coming back as a targeted stimulus for the Indian economy, New Delhi secured a worthwhile deal.

Courtesy- http://quwa.org/2016/09/23/india-inks-long-awaited-rafale-deal/
 
Nicely summed up @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Quwa .

It would be nice if you also cover a bit of Eric Trappier interview and the Make In India hints part. That will expand the article even more surely.

@waz @WAJsal - Request you to merge this thread with sticky thread

@Major d1 - Please collate all information and news about Rafale in the sticky thread
 
wooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


@Abingdonboy Atleast now you should change your view on parikkar a little bit. I agree that he still has a long way to go but we should give some credit where its due

@PARIKRAMA Awesome work dude keep rocking
By all accounts the Rafale deal was Modi's brainchild.

I still hold serious reservations about Parrikar but am hoping to be proven wrong.

Now some more good news

Sale of Rafale Dassault Aviation "is preparing for a big future" in India
8:31, 23 September 2016, amended to 8:43, September 23, 2016

After several years of export difficulties, the French Rafale found buyers from India. A first partnership could call others.
Vente-de-Rafales-On-se-prepare-aussi-a-un-grand-futur-c-est-pourquoi-on-souhaite-avoir-des-partenariats-forts-avec-les-Indiens.png

INTERVIEW
"We are preparing for a great future in India," said Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault Aviation micro Europe 1 on Friday. Well as aircraft tip, the French Rafale have long been shunned by buyers. But that time is now over as the Minister of Defence, Jean-Yves Le Drian and his Indian counterpart to sign the sale of 36 fighter jets Friday.

"Great pride" for the French Air Force. The manufacturer of the famous Rafale confirmed, those are 36 aircraft to be purchased by India. Jean-Yves Le Drian, the defense minister, is about to sign the historic agreement with his Indian counterpart in New Delhi on Friday. There is talk of a contract to 8 billion euros. The CEO of Dassault recognizes that it is a great pride. "It's a sign of success based on the performance of the aircraft but also the confidence that Indians have given us and a patient since worked hard" for this command. Negotiations began in 2007.

A contract that could be the first of many. If this contract is also interesting for France than for India which will see Dassault reinvest nearly half of its profits in the Indian industry, it could be followed by d 'other. "There is a big demand from the Indian Army and especially the air force. (he meant IAF +IN) So it is also preparing for a great future. That is why we want to have very strong partnerships with Indians today. " This contract will "initiate a strong cooperation with India in the development of 'make in India' . We wish to settle in India to work the Indians," said Eric Trappier.

http://www.europe1.fr/economie/vent...s-partenariats-forts-avec-les-indiens-2854339

+++

I told you folks !!! :partay: :angel:

@Abingdonboy - Where are you MIA Brother

@Vergennes @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @BON PLAN @Abingdonboy (where are u MIA bro)
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Better late than never bro ;)


Many thanks for you efforts here, day by day you are proving your oracle credentials!
 
Many thanks for you efforts here, day by day you are proving your oracle credentials!

Yes Parikrama is the single big reason I believe there will be more orders down the road. He will say he is just a messenger, but his message is uncannily linked to what ends up happening hehe.

The many one time costs in this deal by itself should really be an indication. I think modi term 2 will have some really great military programs announced, right now they have to keep to fiscal consolidation and keep the usual brayers in check.
 
The IGA includes the option for 18 supplementary fighters at the same price, taking a flat 3.5% inflation rate into account.
.....
India is to pay EUR1.7 billion for customising the 36 Rafales to meet 14 IAF requirements, including the integration of Israeli helmet-mounted displays, as well as indigenously designed missiles and electronic warfare, datalink, and identification friend-or-foe systems.

The fighters will also be customised for SPICE bomb-guidance and range-extension kits, which the IAF plans to acquire from Israel's Rafael, IAF sources told IHS Jane's .

Aircraft spares, hangars, and two maintenance, repair, and overhaul facilities in eastern and northern India are set to cost EUR1.8 billion, while the performance-based logistics (PBL) deal for the fighters is priced at EUR353 million.
http://www.janes.com/article/64054/india-finally-signs-deal-with-france-for-36-rafale-fighters
 
By all accounts the Rafale deal was Modi's brainchild.

I still hold serious reservations about Parrikar but am hoping to be proven wrong.


Better late than never bro ;)


Many thanks for you efforts here, day by day you are proving your oracle credentials!

You were MIA for long bro.. i was worried you went away from the forum...

You are over estimating me

Yes Parikrama is the single big reason I believe there will be more orders down the road. He will say he is just a messenger, but his message is uncannily linked to what ends up happening hehe.

The many one time costs in this deal by itself should really be an indication. I think modi term 2 will have some really great military programs announced, right now they have to keep to fiscal consolidation and keep the usual brayers in check.

now you are over estimating me too like @Abingdonboy

Now challenge comes from two things
By Q3/Q4 we have to release 15% or close to Rs 8850 Crs.
The bigger challenge is next year 25% - Rs 14750 Crs
and then flat 15% per year for 4 more years. - Rs 8850 Crs each year.

Now we must avoid this in future and for that we need an MII line urgently. Bcz then an order will be much less costly and we can spread the costs over multiple years as well.

Fiscal consolidation will be a challenge but i think it will be manageable. The choice of going for another LWF may complicate this structure of course with a similar payment outflow. But then again we dont have a choice.. the replacement and modernization program is a pretty steep climb



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Pic i have hit the mark with almost good precision.

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and in another forum

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You were MIA for long bro.. i was worried you went away from the forum...
Just had my hands full with a new puppy for the last few days bro that's all ;)


.

Fiscal consolidation will be a challenge but i think it will be manageable. The choice of going for another LWF may complicate this structure of course with a similar payment outflow. But then again we dont have a choice.. the replacement and modernization program is a pretty steep climb
The more I think about the less likely another LFW (outside of the LCA) seems.

1) with the tech/help that is coming from the French thanks to the Rafale deal there will be the scope within India to significantly improve the LCA to make it into a match for any other LWF on the market (and significantly cheaper too).
2) the IN is actually a significant backer of the LCA project they won't even entertain another LFW; the F-16 has no naval variant and the Sea Gripen is a pipe dream whereas the LCA has proven (to a degree) it's carrier credentials and is continuing down this road.

The issue is production now, if HAL pulls its finger out there won't be a problem with the IAF's strength going foreword. Still expecting the NDA to do something out of the box here (second line with the private sector ?).
 
The more I think about the less likely another LFW (outside of the LCA) seems.

Yeah same here. I think we should just consolidate with Rafale now. With MII, there can be good economies of scale like parikrama said....which is sorely needed for 90 further craft and then more potentially after that if needed. Combine that with the safran engine cooperation for Kaveri and I think its a no-brainer.

Premature commitment however will lend too much political bile to certain quarters and may also make the French a bit overconfident in their negotiations later....so I think this current track is fine as long as the strategy is clear within the relevant quarters of the Modi administration.
 

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