Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Taygibay]

Media is not that stupid,

That sentence makes no sense in at least two universes by personal experience.

Why is customization so expensive? We would be anyway paying out of our pocket for the additional hardware. Me thinks it is matter of minor adjustments but then I am not the sharpest cookie in town

1.4 B for 1 base? What are the details of the base? Just hardened concrete along with workshop? Spares are extra anyway

Bases will be built purposefully and with all equipment.
If India buys more Rafales, only the equipment will be needed.

If India wants it's own custom weapons loadout then why spend so much on weapons package

Because they are not coexistent in time. Custom comes later.

Its a loss for India and France if they cannot leverage this opportunity by making Rafale affordable and use this opportunity to build a even stronger India France relationship.

Yes, it would ( sadly, will most likely ) be.

ro, the only #irony here is that Mr Shukla has the cheek to be so anti-Rafale when he has pushed for the F-35 and Gripen (fighters the IAF does not want) for years.

The IAF didn't refuse the F-35 TBH; it was never on offer to them..

There are standard specs and Indian-specific specs.

Under standard ones, it's for all Rafale clients, that's uprated engine, Spectra and radar upgrades, SATCOM, new materials for the airframe etc.

It's more complex than that. A new bomb has to be tested with the exact load it will be in.
There is no other way to know if say the fins of the MICA will spin due to the central Brahmos
expanding the underbelly airflow to the mid-wing, that sort of things. Each panaché ( mix ) in a
config needs to be tested. And all foreign material has to be integrated as to SPECTRA or it just
won't work as well as on our birds. Every change costs a lot, for real ... pre-existing is cheaper.

WHAT IS KSEPANASTRE?

The villain in the next James Bond, milady!

No Meteor integration on Mirage 2000 ever studied.

For commercial reasons! It can only happen if a foreign M2000 user pays for it.

As a french speaker,I can tell you,that no such words exist nor means anything in our language,forget about it. ;-)

You're not a French speaker ... I'm guessing Berrichon or patois Limousin.

largest operator implies more than 286,

Sadly no, it implies more than 225 at the moment.

Talk is free, money as far as I'm aware, is not.

Well, rial, dong and evemn the rupiah almost are, at least in comparison.

And, mind you, this ‘Typhoon’ had virtues the Rafale doesn’t, especially in terms of its potential for future development as a weapons platform

Of course, ours is finished for now though still evolving. Does one get points for a slower than expected program?

It was supposed to have been only a 2 year delivery timetable after signature, but the French said they can't expand that fast.

Not correct.

I'm picking up some data. Will post it today or tomorrow unless someone beats me to it. The delivery plan has been already planned prior to today's news. Dassault had to provide the delivery timelines before the deal was concluded, which is atleast 2-3 months before this month.

P.S: A rate increase from 22 to 33 is expected to occur on 2018. Rate will drop this year and will rise up next year but still short of the 33/year target.

Good Day!

More like it.

In 2016, Dassault will deliver 9 jets. 6 to France and 3 to Egypt.
In 2017, Dassault will deliver 4 jets. 1 to France, 3 to Egypt.
In 2018, Dassault will deliver up to 33 jets. 3 to Egypt, 11 to Qatar, 18 to India.
In 2019, 3 to Egypt, 11 to Qatar, 18 to India.

Not possible. There will be no year without France getting an aircraft.

Read you all later, take care, Tay.

 

[randomradio]

Not possible. There will be no year without France getting an aircraft.

Trappier himself said France won't be taking deliveries. It's only 26 aircraft out of 66 (at 11 a year) for France for the 2014-2019 LPM.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/france-to-cut-back-on-rafale-order/article4982769.ece

Normally speaking, if the current rhythm of delivery to the French military is maintained, Dassault should deliver 66 planes by 2019. But under the LPM announced by the minister on Friday, the French military will purchase only 26 aircraft during this period, creating a shortfall of €4 billion for Dassault.

France will receive all 26 jets by 2017--
2014 - 11
2015 - 8
2016 - 6
2017 - 1

Come 2018 and 2019, France will see zero deliveries. If you really want more, then you will have to place a new order.

So the 5th tranche will only happen from 2020, in the new LPM. In fact this is probably what @CNL-PN-AA has been referring to as the F3R2. In the meantime, you can upgrade your older aircraft to the F3R standard.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The IAF didn't refuse the F-35 TBH; it was never on offer to them..

The F-35 was offered to India by the SCOTUS (not that Hilary Clinton is the most reliable source):

http://ipolitics.ca/2011/08/04/hill...35-as-the-u-s-deals-with-defence-budget-cuts/

Of course, India would have been compelled to sign an vast array of agreements and adhere to policies it would not be willing to do in a million years so it really does not ammount to much.

 

[SR-91]

7.87 Billion Euro Rafale Deal To Be Signed On September 23 Published September 15, 2016

More than a decade after India decided to purchase a new line of fighter aircraft, it is now official. On September 23rd, India will sign a deal for 36 Rafale fighters with France for about 7.87 billion Euros, sources have told NDTV. Along with the 36 fighters, India will also get spares and weaponry, including the Meteor missile, considered among the most advanced in the world.Of the 7.87 billion Euros, about 50 per cent will be covered under offset, which means either France will reinvest this amount in India or source equipment of this value from India. French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian will be in India for the signing of the deal. An Inter-Governmental Agreement between India and France allows for a follow on order of Rafale fighters with a 10 per cent cost escalation. The government claims that it has brought down the price by about 600 million Euros from the initial demand. The deal could not be signed this January when French President Francois Hollande was the Chief Guest for the Republic Day because India wanted a better price. Negotiations went on till 2 am on January 26, but an agreement on price could not be reached then. India and France agreed to sign a general agreement without naming the price. For the Indian Air Force, the deal is bitter-sweet. On one hand, they will be getting two squadrons of the state-of-the-art fighter, on the other hand, the original requirement was for at least 126 jets. India needs at least 42 squadrons of fighters and has an existing strength of 32. The fighter fleet will go down further by about 10 squadrons as the MiG-21 fighter will have to be decommissioned. The new fighters will begin entering service in 2019.

ttp://idrw.org/7-87-billion-euro-rafale-deal-signed-september-23/ .

Here comes the butt hurt bloggers.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I was hoping they would hurry up with the signing already , after all we are all waiting for those design documents on the BBC

Nothing like waking up in the morning to fresh English biscuits , tea and the freshly printed manual , "How to build a Rafale!".

Going thru manuals is difficult ask , at least never can be achieved in a single sitting of morning tea. I do always recommend my peers ample amount of time. As each page promises to be an adventure. An adventure into the unknown world of French secret technology, leaked by Indians.

I am just thinking ahead , perhaps I could speed things up if I called in a few jolly friends from the office to help explain all these fancy pictures and diagrams.

If deal is signed up by September , I imagine we can expect the full leak by December? If the deal is signed early I could perhaps cancel plans for my December vacation. Just so that I can get that extra scoop on the first edition leaks.

 

[jaiind]

finally the rafale jets acquisition is about to conclude.!!!

 

[dadeechi]

Why did BJP pick 23rd instead of 26th?

Does BJP want RAFALEs to fail in favor of other Western offerings?

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Isn't it amazing, in the time that India has merely managed to sign a deal; China and Pakistan have managed to design, produce, test and reach the production of block-II phase of a completely new fighter jet.........and by the time the deliveries of Rafales will start, Block-III will be round the corner....I think this deal does not have the same benefit for India as would have been 10-years ago...

 

[jaiind]

Isn't it amazing, in the time that India has merely managed to sign a deal; China and Pakistan have managed to design, produce, test and reach the production of block-II phase of a completely new fighter jet.........and by the time the deliveries of Rafales will start, Block-III will be round the corner....I think this deal does not have the same benefit for India as would have been 10-years ago...

stop comparing mango with oranges

 

[shree835]

I was hoping they would hurry up with the signing already , after all we are all waiting for those design documents on the BBC

Nothing like waking up in the morning to fresh English biscuits , tea and the freshly printed manual , "How to build a Rafale!".

Going thru manuals is difficult ask , at least never can be achieved in a single sitting of morning tea. I do always recommend my peers ample amount of time. As each page promises to be an adventure. An adventure into the unknown world of French secret technology, leaked by Indians.

I am just thinking ahead , perhaps I could speed things up if I called in a few jolly friends from the office to help explain all these fancy pictures and diagrams.

If deal is signed up by September , I imagine we can expect the full leak by December? If the deal is signed early I could perhaps cancel plans for my December vacation. Just so that I can get that extra scoop on the first edition leaks.

 

[Kal Muah]

Isn't it amazing, in the time that India has merely managed to sign a deal; China and Pakistan have managed to design, produce, test and reach the production of block-II phase of a completely new fighter jet.........and by the time the deliveries of Rafales will start, Block-III will be round the corner....I think this deal does not have the same benefit for India as would have been 10-years ago...

Truly amazing. What's more amazing is you have joined PDF in 2009, and this piece of art is coming from you

 

[Dil Pakistan]

stop comparing mango with oranges

I am not comparing Mangoes with Oranges........rather...I am comparing Brain Fart with Smartness.....

Truly amazing. What's more amazing is you have joined PDF in 2009, and this piece of art is coming from you

.....your message carries the hint that you have accepted my argument...

 

[SR-91]

As India and France get set to sign a Euro 7.87 billion contact for 36 French Rafale fighters, details are emerging on a previously undisclosed part of the deal, which will see India acquiring the Meteor, arguably the world’s most advanced air-to-air missile. Sources tracking the final negotiations have confirmed to NDTV that the IAF’s Rafales will come equipped with the Meteor designed to knock out enemy aircraft and cruise missiles significantly more than 100 km away.The acquisition of this weapon is likely to be game changer in South Asia. Neither Pakistan nor China, India’s traditional military adversaries, possess a weapon of the same class. The only other air-to-air missile as capable as the Meteor is the AIM-120D, the latest variant of the US Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile which is also designed to hit targets more than 100 km away. Analysts, however, point out that the Meteor is likely to be significantly more capable because of its ramjet engine. According to War is Boring, a leading international website that explores high technology weapons systems, “A conventional solid-fuel booster accelerates the Meteor after launch, like most air-to-air missiles. But while roaring through the air, the missile opens up a chute, allowing air to rush into the engine, which heats up the oxygen and propels the supersonic missile to Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound).” Engineers from the European firm MBDA, which builds the missile, have reportedly claimed that the Meteor has a “no escape zone” three times larger than that of the AIM 120D AMRAAM missile. According to War is Boring, “the no-escape zone is an aerial combat term for a cone-shaped area determined by the missile’s capabilities — from where a targeted aircraft cannot escape solely using its own manoeuverability.” To survive the no escape zone, a fighter jet has to be able to jam the seeker of the incoming missile or deceive it by firing chaff, strips of metal foil released in the air to obstruct radar detection. At the moment, India and France are finalising details of the Inter-governmental agreement on India’s acquisition of the Rafale. A French team, currently in Delhi, is reviewing the contract which runs into several thousand pages. Once this document is firmed up, the file goes back to the Cabinet Committee on Security for final approval, which, at this stage, is likely to be a formality. Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would be acquiring 36 Rafale fighter jets from France in an off-the-shelf purchase when he visited France in April last year. Deliveries of the fighter are likely to begin in 2019. Sharp differences between Indian and French price negotiators meant that neither side was able to achieve a breakthrough till now.

....tp://idrw.org/with-rafale-a-game-changer-missile-that-puts-india-ahead-of-china-exclusive/

Meteor is undoubtedly the best air to air missile, but just that isn't enough to counter China. Chinese believe in mass numbers not so much on quality. Their response will always be to overwhelm defences. That's always been their strategy.
To countèr china and pakistan, India requires high quality and needs decent numbers.

 

[shree835]

Why did BJP pick 23rd instead of 26th?

Does BJP want RAFALEs to fail in favor of other Western offerings?

Please help me to understand...What does it make difference ...?? 23rd or 26th...???

 

[Genesis]

lol at that last line.

I was really hopping this won't get posted here. Saw it on reddit. This is a defense forum, the members should be more informed than the average reddit user.

BTW, can we just ban all content by idrw, we did ban that Taiwan source I think, forgot the name it's been so long, that's been putting out amateur articles like this one.