CWG will be better than Beijing Olympics: Kalmadi

[CardSharp]

Democratic system (or any other system) does not give guarantee for corrupt-free system. This is the reason even in countries with hard penalty system faces such problem too. US is democratic country but there is Corruption but not on such level. The solution is to such problem is strong judiciary and proper enforcement of Law which again is corrupted in few countries including mine. We have Central Vigilence Committe (CVC) and Anti Corruption Buereu to control Corruption and then we, as normal people, have democratic right as Right to Information (RTI) and open juidiciary (PIL etc) but usage of both is again less.

Corruption often comes about because of weakness in the rule of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law). In places like the US and Canada people have been following the rules for so many generations it is ingrained and becomes the societal norm.

For example, my parents when we lived in Germany often joked that every German had a tiny policeman in his/her head. These folks wouldn't cross the road without a stop light, would never litter, always respected public property etc etc.

 

[peacekeeper]

As I said, the East Asian countries have more successful examples.

I think except north korea and china all are democratic countries?

 

[huzihaidao12]

India has system for supervision,but not properly enforced
but it is not kleptocracy altogether
There are changes coming like Right to information act



True India is not a perfect democracy like sweden






The advantage of system is that it will deliver albeit late but it will deliver proper life for its people

Right to information act

How much? China is not a democratic society, there are Right to information act, but some true, some false, some are still prohibited. The key is how much.

The advantage of system is that it will deliver albeit late but it will deliver proper life for its people

How late? Are you sure that is late, not for ever? Or, if too late, he worthwhile? Or say, like other East Asian countries, only experienced a totalitarian stage, bringing a rapid economic development, then the transition to democracy. Same Democracy and developed economy and has improved people's lives,you still have to stick to democracy, and the slow development? In fact, China's future may go this route, do you think India is a good choice, why?

 

[huzihaidao12]

I think except north korea and china all are democratic countries?

South Korea, Hong Kong, taiwan, Singapore (at least more like a democracy than India), Japan, has been the history of tyranny, in early stages of development, and other democratic countries in Asia, no experience of authoritarian stage, what the situation? you know.

 

[CardSharp]

I think except north korea and china all are democratic countries?

If you don't count SE Asia yes. All are now democratic but please examine history. South Korea and Taiwan were both de facto dictatorships until their per person GDP reached 16,000 to 17,000 USD.

Both South Korea and Taiwan "presidents" killed thousands and thousands of its own people at demonstrations. (not reported in the west because it doesn't fit their simple theme of Democracy good, autocratic bad)


For example in Taiwan.

The 228 Incident, also known as the 228 Massacre, was an anti-government uprising in Taiwan that began on February 27, 1947 and was violently suppressed by the Kuomintang (KMT) government. Estimates of the number of deaths vary from ten thousand to thirty thousand or more.[1][2] The Incident marked the beginning of the Kuomintang's White Terror period in Taiwan, in which thousands more Taiwanese vanished, were killed, or imprisoned. The number "228" refers to the day the massacre began: February 28, or 02-28.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_Incident

 

[Pride]

I only ask you a question, developing countries need such democracy?

Not only developing but developed nation also need Democracy.. regarding "Such" is very case and country specific..

 

[huzihaidao12]

Not only developing but developed nation also need Democracy.. regarding "Such" is very case and country specific..

Or say, like other East Asian countries, only experienced a totalitarian stage, bringing a rapid economic development, then the transition to democracy. Same Democracy and developed economy and has improved people's lives,you still have to stick to democracy, and the slow development? In fact, China's future may go this route, do you think India is a good choice, why?

 

[Pride]

Corruption often comes about because of weakness in the rule of law (Rule of law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). In places like the US and Canada people have been following the rules for so many generations it is ingrained and becomes the societal norm.

For example, my parents when we lived in Germany often joked that every German had a tiny policeman in his/her head. These folks wouldn't cross the road without a stop light, would never litter, always respected public property etc etc.

I think you were adding to my part only where I mentioned strong judiciary and proper enforcement of Law..right?

 

[peacekeeper]

How late? Are you sure that is late, not for ever? Or, if too late, he worthwhile? Or say, like other East Asian countries, only experienced a totalitarian stage, bringing a rapid economic development, then the transition to democracy. Democracy, but also economic development and improve people's lives, you still have to stick to democracy, and the slow development? In fact, China's future may go this route, do you think India is a good choice, why?

Like singapore India too had almost autocrative rule where a single party enjoyed majority of power because of popularity they were not under pressure Yet they failed to deliver what was expected from them
and after loosing popularity they have started now to deliver
because they know to be in power they have to work for the people


And
With democracy you always do not have slow processes

And regarding Indias route it is the best choice India had because there was a religious turmoil in the country during Independence
And coruption could be suppresed but religious fervour cannot be

 

[CardSharp]

I think you were adding to my part only where I mentioned strong judiciary and proper enforcement of Law..right?

Oh maybe. I must have missed it. if you did though. Great minds think alike no?

 

[peacekeeper]

South Korea, Hong Kong, taiwan, Singapore (at least more like a democracy than India), Japan, has been the history of tyranny, in early stages of development, and other democratic countries in Asia, no experience of authoritarian stage, what the situation? you know.

Japan since war has been a flourishing democracy and economy
simultaneously

 

[huzihaidao12]

Like singapore India too had almost autocrative rule where a single party enjoyed majority of power because of popularity they were not under pressure Yet they failed to deliver what was expected from them
and after loosing popularity they have started now to deliver
because they know to be in power they have to work for the people


And
With democracy you always do not have slow processes

And regarding Indias route it is the best choice India had because there was a religious turmoil in the country during Independence
And coruption could be suppresed but religious fervour cannot be

Well, in view of India's "special" status, in fact, I can agree that democracy is a good choice in India, not because of other reasons, as I said, democracy as a "narcotic, I believe" on the Indian society is a loose rare stabilizers and adhesives. This is the Indian community is greater than all else.

 

[Pride]

Or say, like other East Asian countries, only experienced a totalitarian stage, bringing a rapid economic development, then the transition to democracy. Same Democracy and developed economy and has improved people's lives,you still have to stick to democracy, and the slow development? In fact, China's future may go this route, do you think India is a good choice, why?

You are comparing Apples with Oranges... Democracy is a system to chose your own people with your choice and then there are certain rules for managing it succesfully.. Proper following of such rules are depends up to people..Few cpountries properly followed it few are still managing it.

What you are talking is to chose one system over another is very simplistic process for a Nation.. Even for sake of discussion, if India follows your way then how this implementation is going to take place? Are democratic selected government will drop themselves and will chose another way.. No its not possible.. Similarly Now China is "Almost" developed then is CCP going to leave its position for democracy? Nopes..

 

[CardSharp]

You are comparing Apples with Oranges... Democracy is a system to chose your own people with your choice and then there are certain rules for managing it succesfully.. Proper following of such rules are depends up to people..Few cpountries properly followed it few are still managing it.

What you are talking is to chose one system over another is very simplistic process for a Nation.. Even for sake of discussion, if India follows your way then how this implementation is going to take place? Are democratic selected government will drop themselves and will chose another way.. No its not possible.. Similarly Now China is "Almost" developed then is CCP going to leave its position for democracy? Nopes..

Moot point India never had to opportunity or circumstance to follow east Asian model while China can conceivably make a similar transition.

India could not have been formed as a nation without Democracy right from the start.

 

[peacekeeper]

Well, in view of India's "special" status, in fact, I can agree that democracy is a good choice in India, not because of other reasons, as I said, democracy as a "narcotic, I believe" on the Indian society is a loose rare stabilizers and adhesives. This is the Indian community is greater than all else.

And there are many developing countries for which this is best choice to end tyranny and move towards democracy

Otherwise they will always remain stagnant
Because with proper political democracy changes ought to take place but with autocrative rule you are never sure