CPEC: The case for the western route

[sohail.ishaque]

i watched mr pervaiz khattack's interview the other day....

his argument that route is not a road but includes fibre optics and LNG pipe lines holds a huge amount of weight.....

can some one name any other route in the world where road is laid with fiber optics and LNG pipe lines??

should have added pure water pipes and drainage system in the same project also along with LNG and fiber optics...

 

[Jzaib]

The investment wasn't GIVEN to the States of the Federation. Something you people seriously forget. This is a Chinese investment given to the Government of Pakistan to build a highway system to help the Chinese economy. As a SECONDARY aspect, the Pakistani economy grows with it too.

With your KPK government and the previous government, I'd LOVE to see someone try to get JUST ONE billions dollars from the Chinese in "investments". Refer to the track record. This isn't a ROYALTY the Chinese are paying to ALL states of Pakistan because they OWE them !

Tell fools in KPK to quit playing politics over a country's future and they would get their share. If you scare off the investor, they'll make some changes to the plan to safe guard their billions. Not sure people ever went to school and learned basics of investments.

Would you put your or your father's life savings into a part of Baluchistan where there are murders and terrorists, or the government simply doesn't cooperate??? HELL NO. So why should it be any different for other investors (Chinese in this case)?

Don't cut and paste my response to pick a line to answer. Answer to the entire thing so people can clearly see how full of reasons IK's followers are. (or lack of reason, as you guys just blow smoke every day and do lie based politics)!!

It's a soft loan . Tender is not given to lowest bidders . Billions are made by Nawaz sharif

 

[Viper0011.]

It's a soft loan . Tender is not given to lowest bidders . Billions are made by Nawaz sharif

1) Ok....whether its a "soft" loan or a "hard" one....it is STILL a loan, given to benefit the bank / initiating country the most. Would you loan your life savings to someone who can't get it back to you and doesn't give you profitability? NO. You'll for sure have your conditions as its your money. Not charity!!

2) Tender is not necessarily given to the lowest bidder all the times. I deal with this stuff on almost daily basis in the US!! In fact, I just had dinner with a business associate, and I gave him an example of this same thing that would a client want the "cheapest" company to do the work with less experience, and potentially delay the project costing two - three times more, or would a business go with a more reputable company, who may be more expensive, but can for sure get the job done better, if not cost effectively. Results are what matter.

And it is PERFECTLY ok for an executive to use his powers and award a contract to a company among the top three, with similar features. Or, to a company that the electing board has the highest trust in, to get the job done with more experience, higher quality, cost and within time. Doesn't mean that all three will be achieved, but in some regards the selected entity would have a leg up.

3) NS made billions......you know for the past three years, EVERY SINGLE thread you've opened for cheap propaganda, says the SAME thing. You think a selfish person like IK (his past is a pure example), would let NS off the hook by just "accusations"???? Don't you think he would have 20-30 people at all levels trying to find a real corruption cause to show to the world with proofs???? One has to be stupid to believe IK hasn't been searching for proofs. He's tried to attack the parliament, gotten people killed to grab the power from NS. BUT, he can't file a REAL case in the SC showing REAL proofs against NS.....why???? Because he ain't got NONE!! Otherwise, trust me, someone in Pakistan, knowing about NS's corruption (if there was any), would sell their loyalty to IK / Tareen for many millions and NS would be taken to the SC. I know the dirty nature of these politics in Pakistan by sitting in the US!!

So the fact that you keep saying "there is billions of corruption" is crying "Wolf". But there isn't any wolf. So how about you get off the lazy horse along with the entire clan and focus on doing something for your country, with a positive and good attitude. You can do this propaganda when NS leaves and if there are no results.

 

[Mrc]

PTI again on collision path on an issue that would make them loose a lot of support else where in country... and they will achieve nothing. IK if continues on this path will finally finish his career politically at least as a national leader.

khattack has every right to advocate KPK case for cpec. but few things he needs to keep in mind and so does IK.

khattack needs to change his tone. halt on construction is not going to happen caz he is unhappy as he is demanding now. he can and should exert pressure on centre to get maximum, but don't try to sabotage the project because firstly he cannot and secondly after 5 years of marauding taliban and 5 years of marauding PPP, pakistani nation is not interested his childhood misgivings. they want some relief in form of economic development and vast majority of pakistan sees china as a good friend. so negative dividing and hate filled politics on this issue is not going to get any favors from any one.... this will prove another disaster for IK like dharna. but this time with a lot larger consequences politically....

.project will go on any way since its beyond their powers to stop it. PML-N will go nuts on TV showing every one how PTI is again trying sabotage national interest..... and wont give a single dime more than whats already there.....

exert positive pressure and negotiate..... positive pressure for growth of KPK not negative try to stop growth.

 

[Viper0011.]

PTI again on collision path on an issue that would make them loose a lot of support else where in country... and they will achieve nothing. IK if continues on this path will finally finish his career politically at least as a national leader.

khattack has every right to advocate KPK case for cpec. but few things he needs to keep in mind and so does IK.

khattack needs to change his tone. halt on construction is not going to happen caz he is unhappy as he is demanding now. he can and should exert pressure on centre to get maximum, but don't try to sabotage the project because firstly he cannot and secondly after 5 years of marauding taliban and 5 years of marauding PPP, pakistani nation is not interested his childhood misgivings. they want some relief in form of economic development and vast majority of pakistan sees china as a good friend. so negative dividing and hate filled politics on this issue is not going to get any favors from any one.... this will prove another disaster for IK like dharna. but this time with a lot larger consequences politically....

.project will go on any way since its beyond their powers to stop it. PML-N will go nuts on TV showing every one how PTI is again trying sabotage national interest..... and wont give a single dime more than whats already there.....

exert positive pressure and negotiate..... positive pressure for growth of KPK not negative try to stop growth.

Very well balanced post. I've noticed, somehow, somewhere, IK and his buddies forget that they also belong to the SAME country that NS and others belong to. And any negative politics don't really hurt NS personally, but they hamper the progress on one or multiple projects, resulting in hurting the entire country (as was seen in sit-ins and many times since then). This third class, negative, and nation damaging politics need to end. These guys need to grow up, do positive politics for the country and put positive demands out there (if there really are any). That's their right.

Outside of the above, they need to sit tight and avoid nation dividing politics, let the next elections role in and they can blame whoever. Now is NOT the time. Pakistan can't afford to lose this chance and if China gets pissed of, Pakistan can very easily go off track from the economic growth to a lala land like she was in till 2013!!

 

[Mrc]

A positive way would be to come up with their own projects and ask federation to fascilitate in negotiation with chinese.....

In blind obsession to become PM ... IK is again on wrong path that will lead him to oblivion

 

[Jzaib]

A positive way would be to come up with their own projects and ask federation to fascilitate in negotiation with chinese.....

In blind obsession to become PM ... IK is again on wrong path that will lead him to oblivion

the 46 billion loan will be for all pakistan so why a single province is getting the most benefit? i have heard the orange train that will be in Lahore is also part of cpec investment

Asad Umar (@Asad_Umar) | Twitter

Very well balanced post. I've noticed, somehow, somewhere, IK and his buddies forget that they also belong to the SAME country that NS and others belong to. And any negative politics don't really hurt NS personally, but they hamper the progress on one or multiple projects, resulting in hurting the entire country (as was seen in sit-ins and many times since then). This third class, negative, and nation damaging politics need to end. These guys need to grow up, do positive politics for the country and put positive demands out there (if there really are any). That's their right.

Outside of the above, they need to sit tight and avoid nation dividing politics, let the next elections role in and they can blame whoever. Now is NOT the time. Pakistan can't afford to lose this chance and if China gets pissed of, Pakistan can very easily go off track from the economic growth to a lala land like she was in till 2013!!

the loan will burden on all pakistanis . then why PMLN is using most the funds in punjab? why orange line in lahore which is in way part of CPEC are using the funds proviaded for CPEC ??

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Khilafat NEVER worked,

it's a failed system nor is it endorsed by religion as a system of governance.

Which religion you're talking about? As for Islam, Hilafet is the pinnacle of achievement which lasted for 14 centuries. Our beloved Prophet (PBUH) asked us not to die without learning the name of his/ her Halife. Since the abolition of Hilafet people in our heartland haven't seen peace for a single day.

 

[Sugarcane]

the 46 billion loan will be for all pakistan so why a single province is getting the most benefit? i have heard the organ train that will be in Lahore is also part of cpec investment

What is organ train?

 

[Jzaib]

1) Ok....whether its a "soft" loan or a "hard" one....it is STILL a loan, given to benefit the bank / initiating country the most. Would you loan your life savings to someone who can't get it back to you and doesn't give you profitability? NO. You'll for sure have your conditions as its your money. Not charity!!

2) Tender is not necessarily given to the lowest bidder all the times. I deal with this stuff on almost daily basis in the US!! In fact, I just had dinner with a business associate, and I gave him an example of this same thing that would a client want the "cheapest" company to do the work with less experience, and potentially delay the project costing two - three times more, or would a business go with a more reputable company, who may be more expensive, but can for sure get the job done better, if not cost effectively. Results are what matter.

2.a) And it is PERFECTLY ok for an executive to use his powers and award a contract to a company among the top three, with similar features. Or, to a company that the electing board has the highest trust in, to get the job done with more experience, higher quality, cost and within time. Doesn't mean that all three will be achieved, but in some regards the selected entity would have a leg up.

3) NS made billions......you know for the past three years, EVERY SINGLE thread you've opened for cheap propaganda, says the SAME thing. You think a selfish person like IK (his past is a pure example), would let NS off the hook by just "accusations"???? Don't you think he would have 20-30 people at all levels trying to find a real corruption cause to show to the world with proofs???? One has to be stupid to believe IK hasn't been searching for proofs. He's tried to attack the parliament, gotten people killed to grab the power from NS. BUT, he can't file a REAL case in the SC showing REAL proofs against NS.....why???? Because he ain't got NONE!! Otherwise, trust me, someone in Pakistan, knowing about NS's corruption (if there was any), would sell their loyalty to IK / Tareen for many millions and NS would be taken to the SC. I know the dirty nature of these politics in Pakistan by sitting in the US!!

So the fact that you keep saying "there is billions of corruption" is crying "Wolf". But there isn't any wolf. So how about you get off the lazy horse along with the entire clan and focus on doing something for your country, with a positive and good attitude. You can do this propaganda when NS leaves and if there are no results.

2) No it is about corruption. in quaid e azam solar power plant case . they alot it to chinese telecom fiorm. First of all it didnt even qualify to bid as it has no experience of power. Secondly the company was not lowest bidder.. No where in explanation it was told that the company it was allotted to has more experience
2.a) how do one determine that it was choosen for the reasons you mentioned . do they give justification regarding selection bcoz we are loosing 500 millions ( if im remember it correctly) when u make a tender, they do specify quality they need. what specs are required in project, the kind of instruments that will be used. they give approve supplier. Do u really work with tenders in US?
3) billions of dollar cases is against nawaz sharif . It is also in NAB . But nawaz sharif along with zardari made every investigating institution so ineffective that no can do anything. It is not IK responsibility to find facts. He dnt have investigation institution under him, IK made KPK etisaab commission in KPK and criminals are caught there .

What is organ train?

orange. my bad

 

[Mrc]

the 46 billion loan will be for all pakistan so why a single province is getting the most benefit? i have heard the orange train that will be in Lahore is also part of cpec investment

Asad Umar (@Asad_Umar) | Twitter


the loan will burden on all pakistanis . then why PMLN is using most the funds in punjab? why orange line in lahore which is in way part of CPEC are using the funds proviaded for CPEC ??

Most power projects around thar coal so in sindh not punjab

Orange train (organ train) is a punjab govt loan from axam bank...nothing to do wth cpec..

One of asia's largest air port being build at gawadar ( again not in punjab)...

For asad umar.... u can fool some people all the time...u can fool some some time..but u cannot fool all people all the time

 

[Jzaib]

Most power projects around thar coal so in sindh not punjab

Orange train (organ train) is a punjab govt loan from axam bank...nothing to do wth cpec..

One of asia's largest air port being build at gawadar ( again not in punjab)...

For asad umar.... u can fool some people all the time...u can fool some some time..but u cannot fool all people all the time

he will not be able to fool anyone if just give the details of funding State bank is also not satisfied with transparency of the project. they never provide details of funding for projects. that is why they get controversial . .

 

[Mrc]

Trans parency is another issue....
And if they have issue with funding and transparency they shud raise it as such...
Even i am sure there will b corruption......but thats not the issue they seem to be raising

 

[Viper0011.]

he will not be able to fool anyone if just give the details of funding State bank is also not satisfied with transparency of the project. they never provide details of funding for projects. that is why they get controversial . .

Again, the 10th time explanation to your propaganda...is that the CPEC is NOT a Pakistani investment, nor it is a project being initiated with Pakistani or traditional investments. The financing party is China, with their goal of linking the Chinese highway system to Central Russian states and then to Europe.

Pakistan becomes the secondary beneficiary of this route extended to Gawader. Even in a secondary capacity, Pakistan will transforms her country as its a smaller country and population compared to the Chinese market. So who'll audit these project, who'll keep transparency, the design and all, is ALL under the Chinese control. As its their investment and they want to control it their way.

But the entire world knows how much growth Pakistan will see due to the CPEC. So why continue on with negative propaganda and keep making silly, negative statements without proper knowledge of how these strategic investments work?

BTW, for ALL other projects being funded by Pakistan herself, the WB, the ADP, the USAID, there are SERIOUS auditing involved and the payments are made per milestone. There are no direct checks being given so they can be routed to buddies and the premier's son in the US, so that he can build $ 200 million worth of assets (referring to Mushy). So the corruption ain't happening.

Instead of keep crying "wolf" try to be positive. Negative speculation has been going on for three years, primarily by people who have no clue with strategic affairs, or strategic investment management. Just gung ho political supporters trying to be JP Morgan's CEO on here and doing negative propaganda !!

 

[Mrc]

Why does IK not take his CM with learning difficulties to china and show us all the right way to work out the deals rather than playing with future of poor people of his own province and whole country in general??


Is any one stopping him from arranging 46 billion for kpk alone from china???