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CPEC - fundamental change in the offing?

Civilizations and people that do not adapt and innovate die. It's as simple as that.

The question is, are we going to continue eating the same stale, moldy bread that we've been fed for the past 60-70 years and chasing glories of others or will we ever get our acts together and look around us and differentiate between true friends and those who use us as cannon fodder, will we throw away the bread that is forced upon us with disgust and reach for the freshly baked bread and mold our very own Pakistani Renaissance?

Progress, as the OP has brilliantly pointed out, is not just about about the technological and infrastructure developments and innovations. It is about impressing upon the mind of our populace about the importance of social progress. The damage caused by this evil alone has been detrimental to our well being as a nation state. We have allowed ourselves to be taught by those who are not even capable of producing a ball pen on their own. The idea that life must be difficult and hard for us in this world is an idea borne out of defeatism and confusion. There is absolutely no reason why material and progress of the mind cannot accompany us in this world too.

The inception of CPEC must be looked as a means of driving forward social change through economic development and application of technological and scientific advancements.

Otherwise, like @Kaptaan has said, what use is an air conditioned factory of intellectually dead zombie-foot soldiers of the Mulla Reich?

We must:

1. Value our past, both recent and distant.
2. Have confidence in our nation-state and consider it inseparable from ourselves.
3. Understand the importance of economic, scientific and technological advancements.
4. Believe in the natural evolutionary process of the death of regressive and backward societies.
5. Be willing to adopt, adapt and configure revolutionary thought processes in to our own personal as well as national lives.

Otherwise, go and read about societies that refused to accept evolution and tried to stick to dead ideas and expected the world to change with them, instead of changing with it.
 
Ever since CPEC was announced I have maintained that CPEC is not about the concrete, steel, tarmac, roads, bridges etc. Those are just enablers and exposition of something bigger, far bigger. Nearly 2000 years ago what is now Northern Pakistan specifically Taxila adjacent to the modern capital Islamabad was the intellectual nursery from which Buddhism spread to China. It was meeting of the great Indus River Basin which was one of the four rivers that were cradles of civilization with Yellow River Basin. Today Pakistan is the modern iteration of that ancient civilization on the Indus and as you know Indus still is the heart of Pakistan today. Without it our great irrigation system would dry up and our dams would go silent. Similarly Yellow Basin continues to be the fulcrum of China. Much as our predecessors in Taxila and the wider region that is coterminous to Pakistan made a major impact on Chinese civilization in bringing new ideas and in particular Buddhism I think today Pakistan is placed to get the "gift" back from China. Whereas before ideas went up north along the Silk Road to China from coterminous Pakistan today we are at cusp of recieving ideas that will bring about tectonic change in Pakistani society - only this time the ideas will head south to Taxila/Islamabad along the Karakorum Highway. This is what CPEC is really about. Bringing change by introducing fresh ideas and thinking. A cultural change that will reinvigorate the stale and static Pakistani society. We helped China to transform 2000 years ago. Today it is our turn to change. Map below. Green - Buddhism travels north to China from Taxila. Red - CPEC brings fresh ideas from China that will bring profound ideas that have turned China from famine central to hyperpower in two generations. Ideas change the world. People are mistakenly looking at CPEC as money generating toll station with fees etc. It's not about that. It is about something far, far, far bigger. Ideas. Mindeset. Outlook.


Us8LCy4.jpg




Indus River and Yellow River Basins were both two of the four cradles of civilization. Today they are about to get linked for the second time in history. The first time was the Silk Road and Gandhara/Taxila link with China and Buddhism. Today the two geographies in the form of Pakistan and China are about to go through a second compact via the CPEC and this should bring equal fundamental change to the recipient country - Pakistan. It re-nurtures a 2000 year connection. Then China was the recipient. Today it is Pakistan.



M9uslNk.png



The CPEC is in fact the linking of the Indus Basin which is what sustains most of Pakistan's 200 million people and the historical heartland of Chinese civilization the Yellow River Basin. Both rivers have nurtured two great civilizations and today underpin two great friends - Pakistan and China.


afDy8zu.png



As I said at the intro of this thread the CPEC should not be looked as tarmac or concrete or electricty or bridges. Look at it like planting a fruit orchard. You can't start asking what profit your going to get out of it next or even the year after that. You have to water and nourish it. Eventually it will start bearing fruit. That fruit could be basis of a canning industry, drinks industry maybe even the chemicals might be feedstock to chemical industry. The point is the original planting of the orchard offers the succeeding generations infinite possibilities of how they can leverage that resource. What can be done is only limited by ideas.

One hundred years ago the British built canal colonies in what is now Pakistan. Today what was once barren desert has farms, roads, cities and industries on it. But it all began by building the canals. In the similar way CPEC is not concrete. It offers the possibilty of unlimited ideas. If Pakistan can accept those influences from China then the sky is the limit. If it can't and acts like a narrow minded village oaf then a historic opportunity will be lost.

I read this article by Dawn and it is what preciptitated this post as you know I have backed off from contributions to PDF but so important is this that I felt I needed to comment on it. The article is crying and complaining that the government is not being open about the Chinese Long Term Plan [LTP] for CPEC.

For once I agree with those in government. The officials who are dealing with the Chinese full well will be aware that the Chinese are not about to spend $60 billion on roads, bridges, power stations, airports, ports so that they can walk away and let the mullahs have plenty of electricity to air condition their madaris, more electricity to scream down loudspeakers, more TV stations to pollute young minds, more roads for the mullahs to gather their supporters from more areas and airports for them to export their jamaats. Not a cent in the $60 billion being spent by the Chinese is intended to in any way advance the mullahcracy or ummahdom - a failed recipe that has been peddled inside Pakistan for decades at the behest of USA and Saudia Arabia with equal funding from both.

The CPEC is about bringing in Chinese way of doing things, Chinese way of thinking and bringing about a sea change in Pakistani society over the next decades. This of course by definiton entails going against the failed recipe we have inside Pakistan and replacing it with dynamic Chinese way of thinking and doing. The problem is if the government fully exposes the Chinese Long Term Plan there will bring protests from the status quo. The corrupt status quo that is made of the parasites in the form of mullahs, so called industrialists and small time traders who have the economy hijacked so that they can feed off it and prevent any change happening. Offer the poor paradise hereafter while the vested elite in the hereto jet off to London or Dubai and enjoy life's luxuries.

The fact is CPEC LTP poses a challange to the social, economic and political order inside Pakistan as it will bring in Chinese cultural change. Those who think that cultural change will not come on back of CPEC live in fools paradise. If the real remit of CPEC takes place Pakistan is about to go through a economic revolution and as we all know economic revolutions impact culture and politics.


"The basic point here is simple: we have all been led to believe that CPEC is about connectivity, roads and power plants. In reality, it is about much more than that. It is about preparing the country to receive massive amounts of Chinese investments, personnel and culture"


Those who have read parts of the CPEC Long Term Plan policy document will know it goes into some detail and gives direction as to where CPEC will go after the roads, ports etc have been built. It talks about have tourist resorts on the Arabian Sea, massive industrial estates, huge housing estates for Chinese and huge agro concerns to rejuventate the stale Pakistani economy. In short it is aiming to make Pakistan look similar to Hong Kong and not some medieval village from in the calipha era.

That entails changing to the modes of modern world as can be seen in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, or Shanghai. This is not about west or westoxification that the mullacratics love shouting. Shanghai is is not western but is modern. The fact is there are aspects of modern economy that play out the same in Shanghai, Hong Kong, London, Paris or New York. Just because New York, Paris or London were first to arrive in the modern era does not equate the aspects of life associated with it to 'western'. They are modernisms and when applied in Shanghai has created similar contours to what you see in London or New York.

Even UAE know this. That is why despite having oil resources which gives UAE significant immunity to cop out of aspects of modernism it does not like but even then UAE is far more relaxed then say Karachi. Even the Saudis now are aware that oil is not going to always offer them a way to buy out from aspects of modernism, have began to plan for the new megacity NEOM which will relax religious rules and will be more liberal in it's laws.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/477...ize-of-new-york-where-women-jog-in-crop-tops/


So the reality is Pakistan is going go through tectonic economic, social, cultural and political change over the next few decades. The ruling elite know that after having duped the half educated masses with Pakistan ka matlab kia, La Illaha Illallah can't exactly now begin singing "Pakistan ka matlab kia, Chini athiest consumerism". Thus the reluctance to make public all the details to CPEC LTP. And frankly I entirely understand with them. If Jinnah and Allama Iqbal had spent all their time on convincing the theoretical basis of a nation state with village mullahs in 1940s they would have got no where. If the real consequences and scale of CPEC are revealed mullahcrats will declare jihad and be on the streets against the Chinese 'kaffirs'.

So I say to the Pakistani elite and in this I include Pakistani Army GHQ and COAS just get on with it please. Keep it to yourself and your Chinese counterparts and get the job done. But we know your going to gouge out large chunks of money as corruption but as long as it is not too much and you get the job done of making Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi look, feel like Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing we don't mind.

Just do it.


I strongly suggest people read the full Dawn Article here. > https://www.dawn.com/news/1367767/cpec-long-term-plan

@Chinese-Dragon @beast89 @django @RiazHaq @Joe Shearer @KediKesenFare @Sher Shah Awan @diplomat7 @Zarvan @Horus Please tag as many members you can.



Kaaptan bro, can you PLEASE run for the leadership if Pakistan. I am willing to die for you.

Long live Pakistani Nationalism!

Death to Mullahocracy! It has devastated our nation for the past 20 years!

:pakistan:
 
If it had worked in a Muslim country, it'd defintely would have worked in Turkey!!! After 80 years of extreme "secularism/laicism" - the likes of which Pak folks can't even imagine - per capita GDP was $2K!!! After 15 years of Muslim govt, whose leaders understand Din and Hakikat in the Ottoman way, it's raised to >$10K. Having said that, CPEC is one of it's own kinds of opportunities, so I am pretty sure Pak folks would pursue it with a singular purpose to churn out the last ounce of oil out of it!!! As for LTP, IMO it's so strategic in terms of geo politics and global trade, investment, currency etc. perspectives that it better be kept secret as much as possible....
 
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Some great comments. Indeed some enough to blush me. And yes Sher Shah Awan you are right societies tat do not adapt will lose out. We failed to keep up with the tempo in the past and we know what happened when Union Jack flew over our land. Some members here think I am suggesting we are going to accept Chinese culture. No not at all. First I expect gradual or phased change that will evolve our culture with elements influenced by Chinese to create a culture that is uniquely ours but vibrant and fresh. Of course this will take time and will need older generation to be phased by time. That is why this is a generational project.

@Sher Shah Awan @Juggernaut_is_here etc

Kaaptan bro, can you PLEASE run for the leadership if Pakistan. I am willing to die for you.
My dear friend that would be like asking a panda to fly. Some things are not meant to be. Besides anything you know my Urdu would be the subject of laughter in Pakistan.

However to be honest there is some possibility of me trying my hand in UK politics but I have few dirty skeletons in my closet so we shall see how that plays out. A few more years of my freedom and then maybe dip my hand. We had a meeting in our local neighbourhood watch scheme and the local policing team were pushing me to go for it. I think the police officers liked my ideas how to deal with local louts.

I doubt kaptaan account is being used by some one else
Say again?

I think I have posted my pictures here before. Here I am with my brother and nephews. So it is 'me' although getting old. I hope this removes doubts.
 
Well you know Sir I am new in this forum but not new to this world. I often come across point of views from certain members and then being human I build an image of those members. My opinion of you was totally different until the past few weeks' of your posts made me realize of my mistake. I admit I judged you wrongly and so Sir please accept my apologies.

I have been living abroad for decades and so the only interest I have in the politicians is what they can contribute to solidarity and development of Pakistan. I left Pakistan during Zia's reign and so seen all the governments since then. I remember when PMLN government froze my Dollar account in the nineties and how furious it made me. But then I have seen all of the PPP reigns as well when Pakistan was taken back to being a nation at the verge of collapsing. My morale as Pakistani went way down due to the corruption and bad governance of the ruling elite including the political and non political ones. However, for the last few years since the inception of CPEC my morale has been going up. I see many good things happening in Pakistan; my only concern is if I would still be here to see it. Still, it gives me lot of pride that I am son of a great nation-Pakistan.

Thank you for your post @Kaptaan !
 
Thanks for tagging. I am not at home currently. I will read your OP later but I have a question to you.

Do you believe that the ideological foundation of a nation is the reason for its economic success or does the economic success [read: capitalist transformation] slowly change the prevalent mindset of a nation to ensure its own progress?
 
Some great comments. Indeed some enough to blush me. And yes Sher Shah Awan you are right societies tat do not adapt will lose out. We failed to keep up with the tempo in the past and we know what happened when Union Jack flew over our land. Some members here think I am suggesting we are going to accept Chinese culture. No not at all. First I expect gradual or phased change that will evolve our culture with elements influenced by Chinese to create a culture that is uniquely ours but vibrant and fresh. Of course this will take time and will need older generation to be phased by time. That is why this is a generational project.

@Sher Shah Awan @Juggernaut_is_here etc

My dear friend that would be like asking a panda to fly. Some things are not meant to be. Besides anything you know my Urdu would be the subject of laughter in Pakistan.

However to be honest there is some possibility of me trying my hand in UK politics but I have few dirty skeletons in my closet so we shall see how that plays out. A few more years of my freedom and then maybe dip my hand. We had a meeting in our local neighbourhood watch scheme and the local policing team were pushing me to go for it. I think the police officers liked my ideas how to deal with local louts.

Say again?

I think I have posted my pictures here before. Here I am with my brother and nephews. So it is 'me' although getting old. I hope this removes doubts.



Bro, you've got my vote and backing. Be it UK or British politics.
 
I donot know how relevant this comment is to this thread but I would still give it a shot:

I am an atheist and believe that afterlife for me would be the same as before birth, an eternity of nothingness which I would not be able to feel. But still I am not so sure whether the majority of the people in a developing country are ready for the very radical realistic approach of Atheism. Atheism is a very hardcore approach where you acknowledge that No God will ever help you to tide over your difficult situations and it is upto you and your hard work to change your circumstances, and whatever element of chance and fate is there, it may or may not go your way.

It is this chance aspect of Life that religion tackles...Religion says that you can influence the chance aspect of Life to your favour by religious practice------------may be it is true, may be not....


So by definition the people who will be most religious are people whose lives are controlled more or at least as much by the whims of chance as by Personal agency. Who are such people? Exactly: Poor People

The Afterlife aspect of religion has little value to 99% of the religious people...Most follow religion for reasons that can be well understood by even agnostics and atheists:

Religious people also want a good life for themselves in the hereto , but unfortunately their lives are controlled by chance in the foreseeable future.
They want to increase the probability of chance and fate working in their favour by devout religiosity


Problem happens when an extremist fringe of afterlife fanatics out-muscle the hereto pragmatists in any religion...

When hereto pragmatists of any religion are in control, they do the most sane thing possible...They reduce the element of chance in Life so that less people have reason to be devoutly religious.. Counterintuitive isn't it? people like Edhi,Abdus Salaam,Prafulla Roy are exactly like that..they all reduced (unbeknownst to them) the element of chance in the human condition

The Ultimate Aim of hereto pragmatist Religious People is to make Religion ultimately irrelevant in the lives of people.

This is what happened in Scandanavia, Western Europe and the Larger West in General...Religious scientists and engineers worked tirelessly from the 17th to mid 20th century, so that by the 1970s religion became largely irrelevant in the Western world..and even until 19th century the Western World was in the throes of extreme religiosity that would shame any Muslim majority country today..the Millenarian movements in USA,the Methodist movement in Britain, birth of new Christian religions such as Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses

These said engineers and scientists were able to give the West a structure so that the role of chance in any person's life living within that structure was reduced to a bare minimum..It was now upto that said individual to deliver a minimum or moderate amount of hardwork to provide for himself a semblance of good life


The afterlife fanatics understand this extremely well,they know that religion's hold on the people's mind would eventually loosen if the hereto pragmatists are in charge ...That's why they are increasing riots, bombings, terrorism, killings so that the aspect of chance increases in poor people's lives and not decrease..They are doing all this not to protect religion, but with the covert intent on having a firm grip on the mind of the people forever.

This is the war you Pakistanis are in , and to some extent we Indians are also in

Now this doesnot mean we should not acknowledge the religious instinct in human beings.
But to play up and increase the chance aspect of life is a very cruel way to cultivate the religious instinct among the populace

Isn't it much better to look at wonder the Night Sky and the Universe and speculate about its origin and meaning, after your family's life needs have been met?

Isn't that the better way of honouring the religious instinct that God/Nature may have put in all of us?

For all the above reasons it is not advisable to haphazardly introduce atheism to a relatively poor country (it might lead to societal collapse), but at the same time, hereto religious pragmatists should increase the prosperity of the country so that religion becomes irrelevant in the long run

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and on top of this, Human reality is made or broken by the more intelligent ones among them...No denying that whatsoever ....even in a criminal enterprise such as the Gambino crime Family of the 80s and 90s, the top boss who rose through the ranks lightning fast was John Gotti ...He had a tested IQ of 110...while the average IQ of Italian mafia gang members (not just made men) was/is 90...the Gambino Crime Family had 2200 foot soldiers and made $ 500 million in profit annually


I gurantee, effing gurantee the leadership of the TTP, Taliban,Lashkar-E-Jhangvi and others have IQ of 1.5 to 2 standard deviations above the Pakistani mean (84)...that would put them around 107-114....to be a leader of a group of people....you need to be around 18-30 points above the Group average...that way you will always know how to exploit every opening to get to the top and how to convince people to follow you...

Each standard deviation being 15 IQ points

The makers and breakers of Pakistan will always be significantly higher IQ than the rest, this is Nature's Law and there is no getting around it ....problem is a significant part of these High IQ breakers are firmly in the camp of afterlife fanatics

The problem of both India and Pakistan is that majority of the population is below 100 IQ

In Pakistan's case around 85.7% are below 100 IQ which means 3.14 crores are at or above 100 IQ Mean:84
In India's case around 88.5% are below 100 IQ which means 15.22 crores are at or above 100 IQ Mean:82

Make no mistake it is this 3 crore that will make or break Pakistan, as there is absolutely no way to thrive (not just get by) in massive modern complex technological societies with an IQ less than that..There is no way you can contribute positively to the building of the society with an IQ less than that

If you are reading this site, posting in this site in a foreign language regularly (English), then you are part of those 3 crore Pakistanis

The bottom 85 percent of Pakistan and bottom 88 percent of India are just hapless passengers, with no ability whatsoever to change the course of their societies for the better ..These people can only be a drag or can only ignorantly wreck their country (producing too many children, spitting and shatting without toilet)

But fret not even the White part of West has 50% of population that is below 100 IQ
So it is up to you 3 crore Pakistanis to build a structure so that the bottom 85 percent are not a drag and have a minimum positive effect on the country and economy...3 crore above 100 IQ population is a Lot..that is as much above 100 IQ people as in whole of UK...so use your chance wisely and have a high enough batting average

Now a person like @Kaptaan is doing all this at a considerable expense to his professional potential.. A person with his level of IQ (definitely above 120, most probably above 125, may be even 130) , life experience and conscientiousness can make hundreds of dollars per hour online instead of educating you people..it is up to you to see the light and take the lessons.......


@Joe Shearer ...may be you may find the above of interest
 
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I donot know how relevant this comment is to this thread but I would still give it a shot:

I am an atheist and believe that afterlife for me would be the same as before birth, an eternity of nothingness which I would not be able to feel. But still I am not so sure whether the majority of the people in a developing country are ready for the very radical realistic approach of Atheism. Atheism is a very hardcore approach where you acknowledge that No God will ever help you to tide over your the difficult situations and it is upto you and your hard work to change your circumstances, and whatever element of chance and fate is there, it may or may not go your way.

It is this chance aspect of Life that religion tackles...Religion says that you can influence the chance aspect of Life to your favour by religious practice------------may be it is true, may be not....


So by definition the people who will be most religious are people whose lives are controlled more or at least as much by the whims of chance as by Personal agency. Who are such people? Exactly: Poor People

The Afterlife aspect of religion has little value to 99% of the religious people...Most follow religion for reasons that can be well understood by even agnostics and atheists:

Religious people also want a good life for themselves in the hereto , but unfortunately their lives are controlled by chance in the foreseeable future.
They want to increase the probability of chance and fate working in their favour by devout religiosity


Problem happens when an extremist fringe of afterlife fanatics out-muscle the hereto pragmatists in any religion...

When hereto pragmatists of any religion are in control, they do the most sane thing possible...They reduce the element of chance in Life so that less people have reason to be devoutly religious.. Counterintuitive isn't it? people like Edhi,Abdus Salaam,Prafulla Roy are exactly like that..they all reduced (unbeknownst to them) the element of chance in the human condition

The Ultimate Aim of hereto pragmatist Religious People is to make Religion ultimately irrelevant in the lives of people.

This is what happened in Scandanavia, Western Europe and the Larger West in General...Religious scientists and engineers worked tirelessly from the 17th to mid 20th century, so that by the 1970s religion became largely irrelevant in the Western world..and even until 19th century the Western World was in the throes of extreme religiosity that would shame any Muslim majority country today..the Millenarian movements in USA,the Methodist movement in Britain, birth of new Christian religions such as Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses

These said engineers and scientists were able to give the West a structure so that the role of chance in any person's life living within that structure was reduced to bare minimum..It was now upto that said individual to deliver a minimum or moderate amount of hardwork to provide for himself a semblance of good life


The afterlife fanatics understand this extremely well,they know that religion's hold on the people's mind would eventually loosen if the hereto pragmatists are in charge ...That's why they are increasing riots, bombings, terrorism, killing so that the aspect of chance increases in poor people's lives and not decrease..They are doing all this not to protect religion, but with the covert intent on having a firm grip on the mind of the people forever.

This is the war you Pakistanis are in , and to some extent we Indians are also in

Now this doesnot mean we should not acknowledge the religious instinct in human beings.
But to play up and increase the chance aspect of life is a very cruel way to cultivate the religious instinct among the populace

Isn't it much better to look at wonder the Night Sky and the Universe and speculate about its origin and meaning, after your family's life needs have been met?

Isn't that the better way of honouring the religious instinct that God/Nature may have put in all of us?

For all the above reasons it is not advisable to haphazardly introduce atheism to a relatively poor country (it might lead to societal collapse), but at the same time, hereto religious pragmatists should increase the prosperity of the country so that religion becomes irrelevant in the long run

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and on top of this, Human reality is made or broken by the more intelligent ones among them...No denying that whatsoever ....even in a criminal enterprise such as the Gambino crime Family of the 80s and 90s, the top boss who rose through the ranks lightning fast was John Gotti ...He had a tested IQ of 110...while the average IQ of Italian mafia gang members (not just made men) was/is 90...the Gambino Crime Family had 2200 foot soldiers and made $ 500 million in profit annually


I gurantee, effing gurantee the leadership of the TTP, Taliban,Lashkar-E-Jhangvi and others have IQ of 1.5 to 2 standard deviations of the Pakistani mean (84)...that would put them around 107-114....to be a leader of a group of people....you need to be around 18-30 points above the Group average...that way you will always know how to exploit every opening to get to the top and how to convince people to follow you...

Each standard deviation being 15 IQ points

The makers and breakers of Pakistan will always be significantly higher IQ than the rest, this is Nature's Law and there is no getting around it ....problem is a significant part of these High IQ breakers are firmly in the camp of afterlife fanatics

The problem of both India and Pakistan is that majority of the population is below 100 IQ

In Pakistan's case around 85.7% are below 100 IQ which means 3.14 crores are at or above 100 IQ Mean:84
In India's case around 88.5% are below 100 IQ which means 15.22 crores are at or above 100 IQ Mean:82

Make no mistake it is this 3 crore that will make or break Pakistan, as there is absolutely no way to thrive (not just get by) in massive modern complex technological societies with an IQ less than that..There is no way you can contribute positively to the building of the society with an IQ less than that

If you are reading this site, posting in this site in a foreign language regularly (English), then you are part of those 3 crore Pakistanis

The bottom 85 percent of Pakistan and bottom 88 percent of India are just hapless passengers, with no ability whatsoever to change the course of their societies for the better ..These people can only be a drag or can only ignorantly wreck their country (producing too many children, spitting and shatting without toilet)

But fret not even the White part of West has 50% of population that is below 100 IQ
So it is up to you 3 crore Pakistanis to build a structure so that the bottom 85 percent are not a drag and have a minimum positive effect on the country and economy...3 crore above 100 IQ population is a Lot..that is as much above 100 IQ people as in whole of UK...so use your chance wisely and have a high enough batting average

Now a person like @Kaptaan is doing all this at a considerable expense to his professional potential.. A person with his level of IQ (definitely above 120, most probably above 125, may be even 130) , life experience and conscientiousness can make hundreds of dollars per hour online instead of educating you people..it is up to you to see the light and take the lessons.......


@Joe Shearer ...may be you may find the above of interest

I found it of enormous interest, and also very disturbing.

As a constitutionalist, and a liberal, it is difficult for me to swallow that the vast bulk of our country's population really has no business getting involved in the serious matter of selecting our legislators, or holding views and having the ability of enforcing those views through the rule of the majority. At the same time, your arguments are compelling.

You have also put your finger on the very sore spot of some very childish reactions to @Kaptaan. As you put it, it is silly to react without understanding what he had to say; he can easily spend his time in a more productive way, and it is for the scoffers to take their lessons from his suggestions, rather than for him to run behind them, imploring them to listen.

I have in mind that increasing prosperity will also mean increasing nutrition, to pregnant mothers, to new-born children, to children in general beyond infancy, and to the rest of the population. That, according to many scientists, will have an immediate effect on the IQ rate, as there is a link between adequate nutrition and adequate IQ.

Thank you for a fascinating note.
 
is doing all this
I do it in the hope it might make some differance. You know the butterfly effect. It is like some people give money to charity. I certainly would not have done it ten years ago. As age set in deep sense of wanting to make differance to the country I hail from began to gnaw away at me. Then my health went down and that gave me time to explore here. Although since I have made magical recovery but the deep instinct to make some positive differance persists.

And that was a great post by you. well thought out. Some very incisive thinking by you. I would add though that in most socities including UK most people are just sheep. They just follow. And I am not sure their average IQ is higher. It's all about conditioning the population recieves. In UK the mass is almost programmed to be sheep. They get alcohol, footbal and some money for weekends. That is their opiate.

From my wide experiance with native British professionals honestly I have never felt they are cut above me. Rather I have always had entire confidence and possibly arrogance that I could out gun them on any score. Indeed I find I can play most of them on my finger tips. However I certainly think there are differances between British and officials in Pakistan. British tend to be more rounded, less contrived, more hardworking, more disciplined and take their responsibility very seriously. Pakistani's only show that type of motivation on matters relating to their family. It could be that in British society the family has weakened and the job they do has sort of replaced that responsibility you see in Pakistan invested on the family.

If you ask me what is the biggest differance between British and Pakistani society? I would say the British are very homogenous - physically and mentally. The amount of diversity of thinking in a milllion British is probably measured in inches or so to speak. Amongst Pakistanis 1000 will probably have more diversity of thinking. What this means is in a country of 60 million they all are like clones. They have remarkably similar outlook. The differances between all of them is shade of grey. That is why they rarely fight or spend their time against each other because all are on the same book, same page anb even the same sentance. The only differance between them is where they are on the sentance.

In Pakistan the population is not even reading the same book let alone being on the same page. This leads to a conflicted society where more energy is expanded on friction then actually getting anything done. That I think is the real diffrance between our societies.
 
I found it of enormous interest, and also very disturbing.

As a constitutionalist, and a liberal, it is difficult for me to swallow that the vast bulk of our country's population really has no business getting involved in the serious matter of selecting our legislators, or holding views and having the ability of enforcing those views through the rule of the majority. At the same time, your arguments are compelling.

You have also put your finger on the very sore spot of some very childish reactions to @Kaptaan. As you put it, it is silly to react without understanding what he had to say; he can easily spend his time in a more productive way, and it is for the scoffers to take their lessons from his suggestions, rather than for him to run behind them, imploring them to listen.

I have in mind that increasing prosperity will also mean increasing nutrition, to pregnant mothers, to new-born children, to children in general beyond infancy, and to the rest of the population. That, according to many scientists, will have an immediate effect on the IQ rate, as there is a link between adequate nutrition and adequate IQ.

Thank you for a fascinating note.

Thank you for the positive rating Sir......Yes just last year German and other scientists did a thorough appraisal of India's IQ and noted that India has the potential to increase its average genetic IQ by 7 to 10 points till 2100 , by better nutrition,sanitation,vaccination,healthcare and fumigation of the environment

Dark Caucasoids tend to have a a genetic IQ of 90-93 , and we have failed to maximize our potential to its genetic limit because of poor governance

I think Special Economic Zones where the higher IQs congregate is the way to go for India..In a way Pune and Bangalore are realizing that half-way.........whatever may be the best of intentions, the Future of India is perhaps 5-10 Singapores in the midst of a large Somalia.....Kind of like Brazil, but drier, much bigger (cities), a bit more futuristic and quite a bit more dystopian.....As Charles De Gaulle and others have notéd, Brazil has been, is and will always be the Country of the Future

This might be future of India from 2030 till 2080/2100 , when at that point gene editing (CRISPR-Cas9) and eugenics might become acceptable to the populace...after this point is the realm of pure science fiction like speculation...it might just be possible that all countries will hit the same development potential this point on

A simple way to increase IQ at birth and during the growing till adulthood is introduction of iodized salt..BJP refused to ban non-iodized salt as it may hurt small time traders...but at least education regarding iodized salt is important


IQ is like Height and Education/Capability is like muscles...the more height one has , the more chance one has to pack in muscle mass....but that also means more chance to be skinny ......the more IQ one has more chance he has for great achievements or to become an underachiever

one cannot increase his height after adulthood but one can certainly increase muscle...

muscle being analogous to money,power, education,knowledge


I do it in the hope it might make some differance. You know the butterfly effect. It is like some people give money to charity. I certainly would not have done it ten years ago. As age set in deep sense of wanting to make differance to the country I hail from began to gnaw away at me. Then my health went down and that gave me time to explore here. Although since I have made magical recovery but the deep instinct to make some positive differance persists.

And that was a great post by you. well thought out. Some very incisive thinking by you. I would add though that in most socities including UK most people are just sheep. They just follow. And I am not sure their average IQ is higher. It's all about conditioning the population recieves. In UK the mass is almost programmed to be sheep. They get alcohol, footbal and some money for weekends. That is their opiate.

From my wide experiance with native British professionals honestly I have never felt they are cut above me. Rather I have always had entire confidence and possibly arrogance that I could out gun them on any score. Indeed I find I can play most of them on my finger tips. However I certainly think there are differances between British and officials in Pakistan. British tend to be more rounded, less contrived, more hardworking, more disciplined and take their responsibility very seriously. Pakistani's only show that type of motivation on matters relating to their family. It could be that in British society the family has weakened and the job they do has sort of replaced that responsibility you see in Pakistan invested on the family.

If you ask me what is the biggest differance between British and Pakistani society? I would say the British are very homogenous - physically and mentally. The amount of diversity of thinking in a milllion British is probably measured in inches or so to speak. Amongst Pakistanis 1000 will probably have more diversity of thinking. What this means is in a country of 60 million they all are like clones. They have remarkably similar outlook. The differances between all of them is shade of grey. That is why they rarely fight or spend their time against each other because all are on the same book, same page anb even the same sentance. The only differance between them is where they are on the sentance.

In Pakistan the population is not even reading the same book let alone being on the same page. This leads to a conflicted society where more energy is expanded on friction then actually getting anything done. That I think is the real diffrance between our societies.


Thank you for the positive rating Kaptaan saab ....Butterfly effect it will be then..Your love for your land is something to behold and cherish, eventhough it may be a land not of mine...PDF gives me a ringside view of a man serving his country in myriad ways..For your sake I sincerely and earnestly hope that all your dreams of development and progress for your land comes true and comes true fast (maxxx 15 years OR 3 government terms)
 
your land
Also I sincerely believe that Pak and India should give up the possibility of war. I want both countries to fight, fight desperately against reach other but not on the battlefield but another fora - how about how clean we are, how well fed our children are, how well do we take care of the sick, how well do we educate our children, how well do we provide shelter to our needy, how safe our roads our. The simple mundane things that make life pleasant. That is where we should fight.
 
I do it in the hope it might make some differance. You know the butterfly effect. It is like some people give money to charity. I certainly would not have done it ten years ago. As age set in deep sense of wanting to make differance to the country I hail from began to gnaw away at me. Then my health went down and that gave me time to explore here. Although since I have made magical recovery but the deep instinct to make some positive differance persists.

And that was a great post by you. well thought out. Some very incisive thinking by you. I would add though that in most socities including UK most people are just sheep. They just follow. And I am not sure their average IQ is higher. It's all about conditioning the population recieves. In UK the mass is almost programmed to be sheep. They get alcohol, footbal and some money for weekends. That is their opiate.

From my wide experiance with native British professionals honestly I have never felt they are cut above me. Rather I have always had entire confidence and possibly arrogance that I could out gun them on any score. Indeed I find I can play most of them on my finger tips. However I certainly think there are differances between British and officials in Pakistan. British tend to be more rounded, less contrived, more hardworking, more disciplined and take their responsibility very seriously. Pakistani's only show that type of motivation on matters relating to their family. It could be that in British society the family has weakened and the job they do has sort of replaced that responsibility you see in Pakistan invested on the family.

If you ask me what is the biggest differance between British and Pakistani society? I would say the British are very homogenous - physically and mentally. The amount of diversity of thinking in a milllion British is probably measured in inches or so to speak. Amongst Pakistanis 1000 will probably have more diversity of thinking. What this means is in a country of 60 million they all are like clones. They have remarkably similar outlook. The differances between all of them is shade of grey. That is why they rarely fight or spend their time against each other because all are on the same book, same page anb even the same sentance. The only differance between them is where they are on the sentance.

In Pakistan the population is not even reading the same book let alone being on the same page. This leads to a conflicted society where more energy is expanded on friction then actually getting anything done. That I think is the real diffrance between our societies.
I have written on PDF just a few days back, how Muslims have far too many varying views, and how it leads to dividing in society. So I'm in complete agreement with you on your analysis, comparing British critical success factors to Pakistanis.

Also I sincerely believe that Pak and India should give up the possibility of war. I want both countries to fight, fight desperately against reach other but not on the battlefield but another fora - how about how clean we are, how well fed our children are, how well do we take care of the sick, how well do we educate our children, how well do we provide shelter to our needy, how safe our roads our. The simple mundane things that make life pleasant. That is where we should fight.
Now your reaching
 
I have written on PDF just a few days back, how Muslims have far too many varying views, and how it leads to dividing in society. So I'm in complete agreement with you on your analysis, comparing British critical success factors to Pakistanis.


Now your reaching

I cannot say how glad I am at the positive turn this conversation has taken. This is where I shut up and read every post avidly. With some luck, the cynics and know-alls will not come in.

Kaaptan bro, can you PLEASE run for the leadership if Pakistan. I am willing to die for you.

Long live Pakistani Nationalism!

Death to Mullahocracy! It has devastated our nation for the past 20 years!

:pakistan:

NEVER thought we'd be on the same side!

Totally off-topic, and to hell with that!

Dancing-Snoopy-Happy-Dance-Coloring-Page.jpg
 

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