What's new

CPEC - fundamental change in the offing?

@Kaptaan

"But I freakin well know there is life here like Jinnah did. Nice clothes, women, cars, style and travel - to be enjoyed. I leave regrets to puffters like."

You and my Uncle have similar views, he made fortune in goa after leaving kashmir valley. Now he lives as if he own the world, Vegas, Dubai, Ferrari, Lambo, Chicks and Exotic Alcohole. he's basically Vijay malya Of Kashmiri Pandits. :)

" Get Rich or Dye Trying".
 
Well i am for Chinese way of things it far better than corruption Pakistan style.
i hope they bring full time electricity and industries so people have jobs and learn to stand on their own legs instead of depending and doing shortcuts. This will reduce the worship the politician mentality.
i am sure molvis will benefit too.
 
Brilliant.

Now I need to read the Dawn article to which you sent the links.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1367767/cpec-long-term-plan

CPEC Long Term Plan
Khurram Husain Updated November 02, 2017


Planning minister Mr Ahsan Iqbal has finally confirmed that the CPEC Long Term Plan (LTP) is about to be finalised on Nov 21 at the seventh Joint Cooperation Committee to be held in Islamabad. Some might recall that details from the LTP in question were published by Dawn in a long detailed report in May, and the same minister had reacted sharply at the time, saying that the details are “factually incorrect” and the real plan will be made public once it has been finalised.

It looks like that moment is at last arriving, if the minister lives up to his promise of releasing the full document. If they do what they did earlier in the year, and produce a shortened, sanitised and general summary of the main LTP, and release that claiming that it is the original document, we will know that an effort is being made to conceal the real details of CPEC from the public.

To recap the conversations that took place around the time when the Dawn story revealed the details of the plan, there were four main areas of focus identified by the Chinese side and a few from the Pakistanis. The Chinese appeared primarily interested in agriculture, industrial zones and tourism, along with a digital strategy to expand fibre optic connectivity and build a submarine cable landing station in Gwadar to carry some of their digital traffic from the western provinces out via Pakistan rather than routing it through servers in Europe.

In addition, there was a detailed financial strategy, which called upon the government of Pakistan to expand the role of the yuan in its economy, turn more to raising debt from the markets in Hong Kong, and dedicate increasing resources from its own budget, as well as provincial and local bodies’ budgets, towards CPEC-related priorities.

Since then, we have seen something odd happening. Many of the priorities identified in the LTP have indeed been pursued since, but without any of the fanfare associated with the inauguration of roads and power plants. For example, the national food security policy announced in July contained an entire section dedicated to the creation of CPEC-related agriculture development zones as one solution to the country’s future food security issues. Many of the details in that policy document sound almost identical to the priorities highlighted by the Chinese in their LTP document, produced by the China Development Bank under the auspices of the National Development Reform Commission.

In other examples, a recent news item highlighted the fact that a Chinese company has entered into an MoU with the city of Karachi to build an elevated road, almost four kilometres long, from Clifton Beach to Hawkesbay. A closer read of the actual MoU shows that the road is in fact being built to carry traffic to a Chinese resort to be built in Hawkesbay beach, possibly one of the first of the many tourist resorts to be built along the coastal strip from Badin to Gwadar identified in the Dawn report.

There are innumerable examples now. Land acquisition is under way in various areas around KP to build housing for Chinese personnel who will reside in the province in the years when CPEC-related investment begins pouring into the country.

The basic point here is simple: we have all been led to believe that CPEC is about connectivity, roads and power plants. In reality, it is about much more than that. It is about preparing the country to receive massive amounts of Chinese investments, personnel and culture. None of this implies that CPEC is a bad thing, as some people are ready to conclude without reflection. It is only to imply that the real details of what is being negotiated under the CPEC umbrella need to be publicly known, and efforts to hide these details from the public in a democratic country like Pakistan, where transparency and debate around issues of national importance are the norm, are bound to fuel adverse commentary and conspiracy theorising.

When the minister issued his sharp response to the Dawn story about the LTP, he was given a clear stage upon which to air his grievances with the story. When has asked for more time to be allowed to make the details of the LTP, he was given the time he said he required. But now that he has confirmed that the LTP is about to be finalised, it must be insisted that the time to deliver on his commitment has also arrived.

It is worth bearing in mind a couple of tricks that the government could resort to in order to try and wiggle out of this commitment without appearing to do so. Early in the year, when it needed provincial government assent for the plan, it generated a shorter, edited draft of the original LTP and circulated that to the provincial governments. Later, the government tried to argue that the edited version is the real one, and the longer, detailed draft was only a “working document”. A few people fell for this gimmick, thinking that somehow there are multiple drafts of the plan in play. In reality there was only one, and the shorter one was only a summary meant for public consumption with all vital details removed. Such gimmickry must not be resorted to this time.

The LTP is one of the most important documents in the arena these days, far more than the LNG contract that members of the opposition parties are clamouring for access to. It is bewildering to see the same members of the opposition parties holding their silence regarding the disclosure of the LTP. How has the silence of the opposition parties been obtained? Have they seen the LTP to be satisfied that no further discussion is required? The demands for CPEC transparency are more consequential for Pakistan’s long-term prospects, especially for its economy, and silence does not serve that interest well.

The writer is a member of staff.

khurram.husain@gmail.com

Twitter: @khurramhusain

Published in Dawn, November 2nd, 2017
 
Ever since CPEC was announced I have maintained that CPEC is not about the concrete, steel, tarmac, roads, bridges etc. Those are just enablers and exposition of something bigger, far bigger. Nearly 2000 years ago what is now Northern Pakistan specifically Taxila adjacent to the modern capital Islamabad was the intellectual nursery from which Buddhism spread to China. It was meeting of the great Indus River Basin which was one of the four rivers that were cradles of civilization with Yellow River Basin. Today Pakistan is the modern iteration of that ancient civilization on the Indus and as you know Indus still is the heart of Pakistan today. Without it our great irrigation system would dry up and our dams would go silent. Similarly Yellow Basin continues to be the fulcrum of China. Much as our predecessors in Taxila and the wider region that is coterminous to Pakistan made a major impact on Chinese civilization in bringing new ideas and in particular Buddhism I think today Pakistan is placed to get the "gift" back from China. Whereas before ideas went up north along the Silk Road to China from coterminous Pakistan today we are at cusp of recieving ideas that will bring about tectonic change in Pakistani society - only this time the ideas will head south to Taxila/Islamabad along the Karakorum Highway. This is what CPEC is really about. Bringing change by introducing fresh ideas and thinking. A cultural change that will reinvigorate the stale and static Pakistani society. We helped China to transform 2000 years ago. Today it is our turn to change. Map below. Green - Buddhism travels north to China from Taxila. Red - CPEC brings fresh ideas from China that will bring profound ideas that have turned China from famine central to hyperpower in two generations. Ideas change the world. People are mistakenly looking at CPEC as money generating toll station with fees etc. It's not about that. It is about something far, far, far bigger. Ideas. Mindeset. Outlook.


Us8LCy4.jpg




Indus River and Yellow River Basins were both two of the four cradles of civilization. Today they are about to get linked for the second time in history. The first time was the Silk Road and Gandhara/Taxila link with China and Buddhism. Today the two geographies in the form of Pakistan and China are about to go through a second compact via the CPEC and this should bring equal fundamental change to the recipient country - Pakistan. It re-nurtures a 2000 year connection. Then China was the recipient. Today it is Pakistan.



M9uslNk.png



The CPEC is in fact the linking of the Indus Basin which is what sustains most of Pakistan's 200 million people and the historical heartland of Chinese civilization the Yellow River Basin. Both rivers have nurtured two great civilizations and today underpin two great friends - Pakistan and China.


afDy8zu.png



As I said at the intro of this thread the CPEC should not be looked as tarmac or concrete or electricty or bridges. Look at it like planting a fruit orchard. You can't start asking what profit your going to get out of it next or even the year after that. You have to water and nourish it. Eventually it will start bearing fruit. That fruit could be basis of a canning industry, drinks industry maybe even the chemicals might be feedstock to chemical industry. The point is the original planting of the orchard offers the succeeding generations infinite possibilities of how they can leverage that resource. What can be done is only limited by ideas.

One hundred years ago the British built canal colonies in what is now Pakistan. Today what was once barren desert has farms, roads, cities and industries on it. But it all began by building the canals. In the similar way CPEC is not concrete. It offers the possibilty of unlimited ideas. If Pakistan can accept those influences from China then the sky is the limit. If it can't and acts like a narrow minded village oaf then a historic opportunity will be lost.

I read this article by Dawn and it is what preciptitated this post as you know I have backed off from contributions to PDF but so important is this that I felt I needed to comment on it. The article is crying and complaining that the government is not being open about the Chinese Long Term Plan [LTP] for CPEC.

For once I agree with those in government. The officials who are dealing with the Chinese full well will be aware that the Chinese are not about to spend $60 billion on roads, bridges, power stations, airports, ports so that they can walk away and let the mullahs have plenty of electricity to air condition their madaris, more electricity to scream down loudspeakers, more TV stations to pollute young minds, more roads for the mullahs to gather their supporters from more areas and airports for them to export their jamaats. Not a cent in the $60 billion being spent by the Chinese is intended to in any way advance the mullahcracy or ummahdom - a failed recipe that has been peddled inside Pakistan for decades at the behest of USA and Saudia Arabia with equal funding from both.

The CPEC is about bringing in Chinese way of doing things, Chinese way of thinking and bringing about a sea change in Pakistani society over the next decades. This of course by definiton entails going against the failed recipe we have inside Pakistan and replacing it with dynamic Chinese way of thinking and doing. The problem is if the government fully exposes the Chinese Long Term Plan there will bring protests from the status quo. The corrupt status quo that is made of the parasites in the form of mullahs, so called industrialists and small time traders who have the economy hijacked so that they can feed off it and prevent any change happening. Offer the poor paradise hereafter while the vested elite in the hereto jet off to London or Dubai and enjoy life's luxuries.

The fact is CPEC LTP poses a challange to the social, economic and political order inside Pakistan as it will bring in Chinese cultural change. Those who think that cultural change will not come on back of CPEC live in fools paradise. If the real remit of CPEC takes place Pakistan is about to go through a economic revolution and as we all know economic revolutions impact culture and politics.


"The basic point here is simple: we have all been led to believe that CPEC is about connectivity, roads and power plants. In reality, it is about much more than that. It is about preparing the country to receive massive amounts of Chinese investments, personnel and culture"


Those who have read parts of the CPEC Long Term Plan policy document will know it goes into some detail and gives direction as to where CPEC will go after the roads, ports etc have been built. It talks about have tourist resorts on the Arabian Sea, massive industrial estates, huge housing estates for Chinese and huge agro concerns to rejuventate the stale Pakistani economy. In short it is aiming to make Pakistan look similar to Hong Kong and not some medieval village from in the calipha era.

That entails changing to the modes of modern world as can be seen in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, or Shanghai. This is not about west or westoxification that the mullacratics love shouting. Shanghai is is not western but is modern. The fact is there are aspects of modern economy that play out the same in Shanghai, Hong Kong, London, Paris or New York. Just because New York, Paris or London were first to arrive in the modern era does not equate the aspects of life associated with it to 'western'. They are modernisms and when applied in Shanghai has created similar contours to what you see in London or New York.

Even UAE know this. That is why despite having oil resources which gives UAE significant immunity to cop out of aspects of modernism it does not like but even then UAE is far more relaxed then say Karachi. Even the Saudis now are aware that oil is not going to always offer them a way to buy out from aspects of modernism, have began to plan for the new megacity NEOM which will relax religious rules and will be more liberal in it's laws.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/477...ize-of-new-york-where-women-jog-in-crop-tops/


So the reality is Pakistan is going go through tectonic economic, social, cultural and political change over the next few decades. The ruling elite know that after having duped the half educated masses with Pakistan ka matlab kia, La Illaha Illallah can't exactly now begin singing "Pakistan ka matlab kia, Chini athiest consumerism". Thus the reluctance to make public all the details to CPEC LTP. And frankly I entirely understand with them. If Jinnah and Allama Iqbal had spent all their time on convincing the theoretical basis of a nation state with village mullahs in 1940s they would have got no where. If the real consequences and scale of CPEC are revealed mullahcrats will declare jihad and be on the streets against the Chinese 'kaffirs'.

So I say to the Pakistani elite and in this I include Pakistani Army GHQ and COAS just get on with it please. Keep it to yourself and your Chinese counterparts and get the job done. But we know your going to gouge out large chunks of money as corruption but as long as it is not too much and you get the job done of making Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi look, feel like Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing we don't mind.

Just do it.


I strongly suggest people read the full Dawn Article here. > https://www.dawn.com/news/1367767/cpec-long-term-plan

@Chinese-Dragon @beast89 @django @RiazHaq @Joe Shearer @KediKesenFare @Sher Shah Awan @diplomat7 @Zarvan @Horus Please tag as many members you can.

Nice write up. Thanks for the effort. I too agree about not being too "transparent" for our own sake. Got to have faith and keep working.

Without going into the details, working in the neighborhood with our neighbors is good for peace and economy in the long run of Pak. We face external threats that need to be managed without starting or participating in wars. And, as a large country, we have different views and interest groups. Although I disagree with you that the problem is with our "ideology", we do need to increase our sophistication from those who simply run on emotion. The main problem is always not working hard enough to win. If we start infighting and not work, we will miss this boat too. Hopefully, we are desperate enough this time to push a rock uphill.
 
Last edited:
@Kaptaan

"But I freakin well know there is life here like Jinnah did. Nice clothes, women, cars, style and travel - to be enjoyed. I leave regrets to puffters like."

You and my Uncle have similar views, he made fortune in goa after leaving kashmir valley. Now he lives as if he own the world, Vegas, Dubai, Ferrari, Lambo, Chicks and Exotic Alcohole. he's basically Vijay malya Of Kashmiri Pandits. :)

" Get Rich or Dye Trying".

Was he also an EDL wannabe?

Futile attempt by op to stole rich indian buddhist history.

Apparently anything that is rich. In fashion. Powerful.

He is willing to leech on it.

Jo color
Jo zabaan
Jo culture
Jo naam

Kuch bhi dedo. Paise dedo. Gaon ki zameen pe hukumraani chaiye baaki jo krwana hai karlega ye

EDL wannabe racist
 
Was he also an EDL wannabe?



Apparently anything that is rich. In fashion. Powerful.

He is willing to leech on it.

Jo color
Jo zabaan
Jo culture
Jo naam

Kuch bhi dedo. Paise dedo. Gaon ki zameen pe hukumraani chaiye baaki jo krwana hai karlega ye

EDL wannabe racist

I wannabe a racist ,
It is so thrilling, the thought
One day I'll rule the world ,
And kill people, and never get caught
I' wanna show my white skin
And insult the dark , never got enough pumpkin
I wanna be a racist
I wanna be a racist .
 
Ever since CPEC was announced I have maintained that CPEC is not about the concrete, steel, tarmac, roads, bridges etc. Those are just enablers and exposition of something bigger, far bigger. Nearly 2000 years ago what is now Northern Pakistan specifically Taxila adjacent to the modern capital Islamabad was the intellectual nursery from which Buddhism spread to China. It was meeting of the great Indus River Basin which was one of the four rivers that were cradles of civilization with Yellow River Basin. Today Pakistan is the modern iteration of that ancient civilization on the Indus and as you know Indus still is the heart of Pakistan today. Without it our great irrigation system would dry up and our dams would go silent. Similarly Yellow Basin continues to be the fulcrum of China. Much as our predecessors in Taxila and the wider region that is coterminous to Pakistan made a major impact on Chinese civilization in bringing new ideas and in particular Buddhism I think today Pakistan is placed to get the "gift" back from China. Whereas before ideas went up north along the Silk Road to China from coterminous Pakistan today we are at cusp of recieving ideas that will bring about tectonic change in Pakistani society - only this time the ideas will head south to Taxila/Islamabad along the Karakorum Highway. This is what CPEC is really about. Bringing change by introducing fresh ideas and thinking. A cultural change that will reinvigorate the stale and static Pakistani society. We helped China to transform 2000 years ago. Today it is our turn to change. Map below. Green - Buddhism travels north to China from Taxila. Red - CPEC brings fresh ideas from China that will bring profound ideas that have turned China from famine central to hyperpower in two generations. Ideas change the world. People are mistakenly looking at CPEC as money generating toll station with fees etc. It's not about that. It is about something far, far, far bigger. Ideas. Mindeset. Outlook.


Us8LCy4.jpg




Indus River and Yellow River Basins were both two of the four cradles of civilization. Today they are about to get linked for the second time in history. The first time was the Silk Road and Gandhara/Taxila link with China and Buddhism. Today the two geographies in the form of Pakistan and China are about to go through a second compact via the CPEC and this should bring equal fundamental change to the recipient country - Pakistan. It re-nurtures a 2000 year connection. Then China was the recipient. Today it is Pakistan.



M9uslNk.png



The CPEC is in fact the linking of the Indus Basin which is what sustains most of Pakistan's 200 million people and the historical heartland of Chinese civilization the Yellow River Basin. Both rivers have nurtured two great civilizations and today underpin two great friends - Pakistan and China.


afDy8zu.png



As I said at the intro of this thread the CPEC should not be looked as tarmac or concrete or electricty or bridges. Look at it like planting a fruit orchard. You can't start asking what profit your going to get out of it next or even the year after that. You have to water and nourish it. Eventually it will start bearing fruit. That fruit could be basis of a canning industry, drinks industry maybe even the chemicals might be feedstock to chemical industry. The point is the original planting of the orchard offers the succeeding generations infinite possibilities of how they can leverage that resource. What can be done is only limited by ideas.

One hundred years ago the British built canal colonies in what is now Pakistan. Today what was once barren desert has farms, roads, cities and industries on it. But it all began by building the canals. In the similar way CPEC is not concrete. It offers the possibilty of unlimited ideas. If Pakistan can accept those influences from China then the sky is the limit. If it can't and acts like a narrow minded village oaf then a historic opportunity will be lost.

I read this article by Dawn and it is what preciptitated this post as you know I have backed off from contributions to PDF but so important is this that I felt I needed to comment on it. The article is crying and complaining that the government is not being open about the Chinese Long Term Plan [LTP] for CPEC.

For once I agree with those in government. The officials who are dealing with the Chinese full well will be aware that the Chinese are not about to spend $60 billion on roads, bridges, power stations, airports, ports so that they can walk away and let the mullahs have plenty of electricity to air condition their madaris, more electricity to scream down loudspeakers, more TV stations to pollute young minds, more roads for the mullahs to gather their supporters from more areas and airports for them to export their jamaats. Not a cent in the $60 billion being spent by the Chinese is intended to in any way advance the mullahcracy or ummahdom - a failed recipe that has been peddled inside Pakistan for decades at the behest of USA and Saudia Arabia with equal funding from both.

The CPEC is about bringing in Chinese way of doing things, Chinese way of thinking and bringing about a sea change in Pakistani society over the next decades. This of course by definiton entails going against the failed recipe we have inside Pakistan and replacing it with dynamic Chinese way of thinking and doing. The problem is if the government fully exposes the Chinese Long Term Plan there will bring protests from the status quo. The corrupt status quo that is made of the parasites in the form of mullahs, so called industrialists and small time traders who have the economy hijacked so that they can feed off it and prevent any change happening. Offer the poor paradise hereafter while the vested elite in the hereto jet off to London or Dubai and enjoy life's luxuries.

The fact is CPEC LTP poses a challange to the social, economic and political order inside Pakistan as it will bring in Chinese cultural change. Those who think that cultural change will not come on back of CPEC live in fools paradise. If the real remit of CPEC takes place Pakistan is about to go through a economic revolution and as we all know economic revolutions impact culture and politics.


"The basic point here is simple: we have all been led to believe that CPEC is about connectivity, roads and power plants. In reality, it is about much more than that. It is about preparing the country to receive massive amounts of Chinese investments, personnel and culture"


Those who have read parts of the CPEC Long Term Plan policy document will know it goes into some detail and gives direction as to where CPEC will go after the roads, ports etc have been built. It talks about have tourist resorts on the Arabian Sea, massive industrial estates, huge housing estates for Chinese and huge agro concerns to rejuventate the stale Pakistani economy. In short it is aiming to make Pakistan look similar to Hong Kong and not some medieval village from in the calipha era.

That entails changing to the modes of modern world as can be seen in Hong Kong, Shenzhen, or Shanghai. This is not about west or westoxification that the mullacratics love shouting. Shanghai is is not western but is modern. The fact is there are aspects of modern economy that play out the same in Shanghai, Hong Kong, London, Paris or New York. Just because New York, Paris or London were first to arrive in the modern era does not equate the aspects of life associated with it to 'western'. They are modernisms and when applied in Shanghai has created similar contours to what you see in London or New York.

Even UAE know this. That is why despite having oil resources which gives UAE significant immunity to cop out of aspects of modernism it does not like but even then UAE is far more relaxed then say Karachi. Even the Saudis now are aware that oil is not going to always offer them a way to buy out from aspects of modernism, have began to plan for the new megacity NEOM which will relax religious rules and will be more liberal in it's laws.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/477...ize-of-new-york-where-women-jog-in-crop-tops/


So the reality is Pakistan is going go through tectonic economic, social, cultural and political change over the next few decades. The ruling elite know that after having duped the half educated masses with Pakistan ka matlab kia, La Illaha Illallah can't exactly now begin singing "Pakistan ka matlab kia, Chini athiest consumerism". Thus the reluctance to make public all the details to CPEC LTP. And frankly I entirely understand with them. If Jinnah and Allama Iqbal had spent all their time on convincing the theoretical basis of a nation state with village mullahs in 1940s they would have got no where. If the real consequences and scale of CPEC are revealed mullahcrats will declare jihad and be on the streets against the Chinese 'kaffirs'.

So I say to the Pakistani elite and in this I include Pakistani Army GHQ and COAS just get on with it please. Keep it to yourself and your Chinese counterparts and get the job done. But we know your going to gouge out large chunks of money as corruption but as long as it is not too much and you get the job done of making Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi look, feel like Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing we don't mind.

Just do it.


I strongly suggest people read the full Dawn Article here. > https://www.dawn.com/news/1367767/cpec-long-term-plan

@Chinese-Dragon @beast89 @django @RiazHaq @Joe Shearer @KediKesenFare @Sher Shah Awan @diplomat7 @Zarvan @Horus Please tag as many members you can.
@Moonlight @The Sandman @Zibago @Hell hound
 
I wannabe a racist ,
It is so thrilling, the thought
One day I'll rule the world ,
And kill people, and never get caught
I' wanna show my white skin
And insult the dark , never got enough pumpkin
I wanna be a racist
I wanna be a racist .

I am a wannabe Aryan Indus racist
I have a proud history which the white people told me.
Since they have superior IQ i believe them.
I now have a superior IQ too because being racist is in fashion.
I totally do not have an identity crisis.

If things go worse.
I will claim direct descendance from Arabia.

Please don't spoil my own virtual world
 
I wonder if final LTP will no longer have anything to do with tourist resorts etc Lets see, not much left now.
 
Keep it to yourself and your Chinese counterparts and get the job done.
Great article bro though you cannot separate exchange of ideas from economy, in the past trade has been crucial in flow of ideas from one place to another. Do you think Chinese culture will be taught in our schools because in the past a distinct cultural ambiance was created by the presence of other peoples.

I think the changes will be in small doses so they are digestible for society. "time for sudden changes are over, only incremental changes work" - paraphrasing ex-PM Shaukat Aziz talking to chinese TV channel talking about CPEC and "change management".
I strongly believe the molvis have conceded that their "cultural revolution" post zia has taken us to the cusp of total collapse, if they don't, the general public does. Their favor-ability has plummeted since TTP. There is immense support for cracking down on FITNA spreading molvis and I think the army isn't doing enough to crack down even more and bring their nuisance value to absolute zero.
 
@Kaptaan saab is 50 % of PDF..Plain,simple,honest,brutal fact....either his writings are that of a visionary or of a man on a doomed Faustian Quest to uplift his people....May Pakistan and its people never let him down...Such stupendous outpourings like this can only come from a place of hurt and passion....


On another note : There must be a way to monetize Kaptaan saab's posts for him...Let all Pak and Indo PDFers know, he sacrifices a considerable part of his professional aspirations in order to educate you people

I have said this once and will say it again : It has been an honour to know you @Kaptaan , eventhough you can be a bit caustic at times :D
 

Back
Top Bottom