Cousin Marriages (thought it was over did you?) and endogamy as a whole

[Hamza913]

Yeah we're going down this rabbit hole again.

First of all, my conclusion has not changed, nor have any of the facts I presented. Getting with your cousin is fine, as the percentage increase in terms of how likely you are to get a baby with problems is 0.5% at best and 2% at worst. The only time you will start to get problems is when your family starts doing it repeatedly over generations.

However, I've got some more information that I think is important to share. Also, I didn't explain things from a religious perspective either which has led many such as @AZADPAKISTAN2009 to disregard what I've said. Since the old thread is dead, I've made a new one. So let's start shall we?

Okay, the problem with cousin marriage has less to do with the fact that the person you are getting with is your cousin and has more to do with endogamy as a whole. What is endogamy you may ask? Endogamy is the custom of marrying only within the limits of a local community, clan, or tribe. An example would be when two people both from the same village pair off and have children.

How is this relevant? Well, it turns out the defects that arise when people who are cousins get with each other over generations, have more to do with the fact these people come from the same village/tribe/clan.

In fact, this explains why many in the Amish and Jewish community also experience birth defects, it's because these small communities tend to get with others within their own community for religious reasons, and since they are so small in numbers, they are significantly more closely related and that causes many, MANY problems:

http://www.jewishgeneticdiseases.org/jewish-genetic-diseases/

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/02/genetic_disease_is_ravaging_la.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/genetic-disorders-hit-amish-hard/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_among_the_Amish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews

It's also a problem for residents of small nations such as Iceland who wish to marry others from the same nation:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...s-icelanders-avoid-accidental-incest/2093649/

So yeah, continuously getting with people that are from the same tribe/village/clan/whatever over generations is the real problem here, regardless as to whether or not they happen to be cousins. This explains why many countries that don't have a high percentage of cousin marriages have a lot of birth defects too:

So maybe marrying your hometown sweetheart isn't the best course of action, especially if anyone in your recent family history has done it.

Furthermore, you will also notice that countries in which personal health are pretty poor join the list too. This is because birth defects are affected by a wide range of things, including the health of the individuals giving birth, what type of environment they are living in and quality of healthcare. Unfortunately, these things are abysmal to say the least in poor countries as well as Muslim countries, which is why both have high rates of birth defects, even if rates of cousin marriage are low.

So please, for the sake of your children, make sure that you are healthy before and during pregnancy, you don't have to run miles everyday, just make sure you eat the right food and follow your doctors advice. Also, make sure you're in a stable environment with little issues and have access to good healthcare. And finally, DON'T PRACTICE ENDOGAMY OVER GENERATIONS! IF ANYONE IN YOUR RECENT FAMILY HISTORY HAS DONE SO, AVOID IT! IF YOU REALLY MUST DO SUCH A THING, GET GENETIC TESTING DONE AND LISTEN TO THE RESULTS!

Now, I'm also going to give an Islamic perspective on this, and it's straight forward with no loop holes whatsoever, not to mention it coincides with what science says too.

Islamically, yes you can marry your cousin and commit endogamy, it's not haram. The people you are forbidden from marrying are mentioned in the Quran, chapter 4 verse 23. This does not include your cousin.

However, Islamically it is better to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Why? Because it can strengthen relations with Muslim's worldwide if everyone starts marrying Muslim's of different ethnicites, and break the racial divide among the ummah. You would also find it easier to convert non Muslim's to Islam by marrying them, another thing Islam encourages. So Islamically, the more distantly someone is related to you, the more suitable they are for marriage provided they are of good character and people of the book (if not then you must convert them to Islam before marrying them). This is evident as the prophet would marry people of completely different backgrounds to break racial and class divides, and to strengthen the ummah as a whole, as shown by his marriage to people such as Saffiya (RA) who was a Jewish Israelite, and Maria (RA) who was an Egyptian Christian (both went on to accept Islam). The majority of scholars (particularly from the Hanbali school of thought) regard it as mustahab (recommended) to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. This is shown in the Quran, particularly in chapter 49 verse 13.

However, when people in your recent family history have committed endogamy or married their cousins, it becomes haram (forbidden). Major figures such as Imam Ghazali have warned against doing such acts. They cite that once, Umar (RA) was visiting a group of people who committed endogamy/married their cousins constantly over generations, and he said:

“You all have become thin and weak (because of this), so marry outside the family (i.e not cousins).” [Iraqi, Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya’]

There is no debate among scholars that Umar (RA) was referring to cousin marriages and things of that nature such as endogomy, so clearly it is Islamically forbidden to do such a thing over numerous generations. He obviously wasn't referring to it as a one off basis as the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) did such a thing.

Keep in mind, that Allah's Apostle (Peace Be Upon Him) said:

"so it is upon you to be upon my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs"

As we all know, Umar (RA) was a rightly guided caliph, and is regarded as one of the Prophet's most important companions, so much so that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said that if someone else would have been a prophet, it would have been Umar (RA), so do not take his words lightly.

Still not convinced? Some attribute a similar statement to Allah's Apostle (Peace be Upon Him):

“Marry outside the family, lest the offspring be thin and weak.”


Here are some sources:

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32767

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011...eace-be-upon-him-discourage-marrying-cousins/

http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1138/what-does-the-quran-say-about-interracial-marriages


Still not convinced? Well here's one the most famous, knowledgeable and respected Islamic scholars (Zakir Naik) echoing what I just said:

Keep in mind Zakir Naik is also a doctor so he knows what he's talking about!

Hopefully I've now also convinced sceptics and now you all know that not only should you not marry your cousins regularly over generations, but also people from the same village/clan/tribe either, and it is best to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Thank you for reading.

@Hassan Guy @Kaptaan @Mugwop @Horus @Oscar @waz @war&peace @maximuswarrior @Luffy 500 @Devil Soul @Moonlight @Doordie @EpiiC @Iqbal Ali @LA se Karachi @Mentee @OrionHunter @PAKISTANFOREVER @Nilgiri @Zain Malik @Chinese-Dragon @WAJsal

 

[Hassan Guy]

Ok MAN, you can bang your cousin.

We got it, how many more threads do we need?

 

[Hamza913]

Ok MAN, you can bang your cousin.

We got it, how many more threads do we need?

It's just that last time I didn't explain things from a religious perspective. Also, this is less about saying you can, but more about saying you can't do it over generations. This point needs to be accepted by all.

 

[qamar1990]

Ok MAN, you can bang your cousin.

We got it, how many more threads do we need?

lol

 

[MultaniGuy]

Yeah we're going down this rabbit hole again.

First of all, my conclusion has not changed, nor have any of the facts I presented. Getting with your cousin is fine, as the percentage increase in terms of how likely you are to get a baby with problems is 0.5% at best and 2% at worst. The only time you will start to get problems is when your family starts doing it repeatedly over generations.

However, I've got some more information that I think is important to share. Also, I didn't explain things from a religious perspective either which has led many such as @AZADPAKISTAN2009 to disregard what I've said. Since the old thread is dead, I've made a new one. So let's start shall we?

Okay, the problem with cousin marriage has less to do with the fact that the person you are getting with is your cousin and has more to do with endogamy as a whole. What is endogamy you may ask? Endogamy is the custom of marrying only within the limits of a local community, clan, or tribe. An example would be when two people both from the same village pair off and have children.

How is this relevant? Well, it turns out the defects that arise when people who are cousins get with each other over generations, have more to do with the fact these people come from the same village/tribe/clan.

In fact, this explains why many in the Amish and Jewish community also experience birth defects, it's because these small communities tend to get with others within their own community for religious reasons, and since they are so small in numbers, they are significantly more closely related and that causes many, MANY problems:

http://www.jewishgeneticdiseases.org/jewish-genetic-diseases/

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/02/genetic_disease_is_ravaging_la.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/genetic-disorders-hit-amish-hard/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_among_the_Amish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews

It's also a problem for residents of small nations such as Iceland who wish to marry others from the same nation:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...s-icelanders-avoid-accidental-incest/2093649/

So yeah, continuously getting with people that are from the same tribe/village/clan/whatever over generations is the real problem here, regardless as to whether or not they happen to be cousins. This explains why many countries that don't have a high percentage of cousin marriages have a lot of birth defects too:

So maybe marrying your hometown sweetheart isn't the best course of action, especially if anyone in your recent family history has done it.

Furthermore, you will also notice that countries in which personal health are pretty poor join the list too. This is because birth defects are affected by a wide range of things, including the health of the individuals giving birth, what type of environment they are living in and quality of healthcare. Unfortunately, these things are abysmal to say the least in poor countries as well as Muslim countries, which is why both have high rates of birth defects, even if rates of cousin marriage are low.

So please, for the sake of your children, make sure that you are healthy before and during pregnancy, you don't have to run miles everyday, just make sure you eat the right food and follow your doctors advice. Also, make sure you're in a stable environment with little issues and have access to good healthcare. And finally, DON'T PRACTICE ENDOGAMY OVER GENERATIONS! IF ANYONE IN YOUR RECENT FAMILY HISTORY HAS DONE SO, AVOID IT! IF YOU REALLY MUST DO SUCH A THING, GET GENETIC TESTING DONE AND LISTEN TO THE RESULTS!

Now, I'm also going to give an Islamic perspective on this, and it's straight forward with no loop holes whatsoever, not to mention it coincides with what science says too.

Islamically, yes you can marry your cousin and commit endogamy, it's not haram. The people you are forbidden from marrying are mentioned in the Quran, chapter 4 verse 23. This does not include your cousin.

However, Islamically it is better to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Why? Because it can strengthen relations with Muslim's worldwide if everyone starts marrying Muslim's of different ethnicites, and break the racial divide among the ummah. You would also find it easier to convert non Muslim's to Islam by marrying them, another thing Islam encourages. So Islamically, the more distantly someone is related to you, the more suitable they are for marriage provided they are of good character and people of the book (if not then you must convert them to Islam before marrying them). This is evident as the prophet would marry people of completely different backgrounds to break racial and class divides, and to strengthen the ummah as a whole, as shown by his marriage to people such as Saffiya (RA) who was a Jewish Israelite, and Maria (RA) who was an Egyptian Christian (both went on to accept Islam). The majority of scholars (particularly from the Hanbali school of thought) regard it as mustahab (recommended) to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. This is shown in the Quran, particularly in chapter 49 verse 13.

However, when people in your recent family history have committed endogamy or married their cousins, it becomes haram (forbidden). Major figures such as Imam Ghazali have warned against doing such acts. They cite that once, Umar (RA) was visiting a group of people who committed endogamy/married their cousins constantly over generations, and he said:

“You all have become thin and weak (because of this), so marry outside the family (i.e not cousins).” [Iraqi, Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya’]

There is no debate among scholars that Umar (RA) was referring to cousin marriages and things of that nature such as endogomy, so clearly it is Islamically forbidden to do such a thing over numerous generations. He obviously wasn't referring to it as a one off basis as the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) did such a thing.

Keep in mind, that Allah's Apostle (Peace Be Upon Him) said:

"so it is upon you to be upon my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs"

As we all know, Umar (RA) was a rightly guided caliph, and is regarded as one of the Prophet's most important companions, so much so that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said that if someone else would have been a prophet, it would have been Umar (RA), so do not take his words lightly.

Still not convinced? Some attribute a similar statement to Allah's Apostle (Peace be Upon Him):

“Marry outside the family, lest the offspring be thin and weak.”


Here are some sources:

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32767

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011...eace-be-upon-him-discourage-marrying-cousins/

http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1138/what-does-the-quran-say-about-interracial-marriages


Still not convinced? Well here's one the most famous, knowledgeable and respected Islamic scholars (Zakir Naik) echoing what I just said:

Keep in mind Zakir Naik is also a doctor so he knows what he's talking about!

Hopefully I've now also convinced sceptics and now you all know that not only should you not marry your cousins regularly over generations, but also people from the same village/clan/tribe either, and it is best to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Thank you for reading.

@Hassan Guy @Kaptaan @Mugwop @Horus @Oscar @waz @war&peace @maximuswarrior @Luffy 500 @Devil Soul @Moonlight @Doordie @EpiiC @Iqbal Ali @LA se Karachi @Mentee @OrionHunter @PAKISTANFOREVER @Nilgiri @Zain Malik @Chinese-Dragon @WAJsal

Interesting topic.

No one in my family has married their cousin, so this isn't really an issue for me.

 

[Hamza913]

Interesting topic.

No one in my family has married their cousin, so this isn't really an issue.

I know it happened once in my family tree (can't remember who it was though, think it was great grandparents), though I have no intention of following suite.

Thankfully, most people in Pakistan (and most Muslim's as a whole) don't repeat the practice over generations much. But a fair amount do, and we need to tell them to stop.

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

My parents, grandparents and even great-grandparents were first and second cousins. But in my generation there are Zero cousin marriages. In the olden days the families were mostly stayed in their village, town city and were traditional and had close family relations. Now we have education, work, mobility, media and Internet to meet new people and families. The cousin marraiges are becaming rarer in the families and friends that I know. Atleast in my family the cousin marriage tradition has died out.

 

[MultaniGuy]

My parents, grandparents and even great-grandparents were first and second cousins. But in my generation there are Zero cousin marriages. In the olden day families were mostly stayed in their village, town city and were traditional and had close relations. Now we have education, work, mobility, media and Internet to meet new people and families. I think atleast in my family this cousin marriage tradition has died out.

Nobody marries their cousins anymore.

 

[Bratva]

Yeah we're going down this rabbit hole again.

First of all, my conclusion has not changed, nor have any of the facts I presented. Getting with your cousin is fine, as the percentage increase in terms of how likely you are to get a baby with problems is 0.5% at best and 2% at worst. The only time you will start to get problems is when your family starts doing it repeatedly over generations.

However, I've got some more information that I think is important to share. Also, I didn't explain things from a religious perspective either which has led many such as @AZADPAKISTAN2009 to disregard what I've said. Since the old thread is dead, I've made a new one. So let's start shall we?

Okay, the problem with cousin marriage has less to do with the fact that the person you are getting with is your cousin and has more to do with endogamy as a whole. What is endogamy you may ask? Endogamy is the custom of marrying only within the limits of a local community, clan, or tribe. An example would be when two people both from the same village pair off and have children.

How is this relevant? Well, it turns out the defects that arise when people who are cousins get with each other over generations, have more to do with the fact these people come from the same village/tribe/clan.

In fact, this explains why many in the Amish and Jewish community also experience birth defects, it's because these small communities tend to get with others within their own community for religious reasons, and since they are so small in numbers, they are significantly more closely related and that causes many, MANY problems:

http://www.jewishgeneticdiseases.org/jewish-genetic-diseases/

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/02/genetic_disease_is_ravaging_la.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/genetic-disorders-hit-amish-hard/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_among_the_Amish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews

It's also a problem for residents of small nations such as Iceland who wish to marry others from the same nation:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...s-icelanders-avoid-accidental-incest/2093649/

So yeah, continuously getting with people that are from the same tribe/village/clan/whatever over generations is the real problem here, regardless as to whether or not they happen to be cousins. This explains why many countries that don't have a high percentage of cousin marriages have a lot of birth defects too:

So maybe marrying your hometown sweetheart isn't the best course of action, especially if anyone in your recent family history has done it.

Furthermore, you will also notice that countries in which personal health are pretty poor join the list too. This is because birth defects are affected by a wide range of things, including the health of the individuals giving birth, what type of environment they are living in and quality of healthcare. Unfortunately, these things are abysmal to say the least in poor countries as well as Muslim countries, which is why both have high rates of birth defects, even if rates of cousin marriage are low.

So please, for the sake of your children, make sure that you are healthy before and during pregnancy, you don't have to run miles everyday, just make sure you eat the right food and follow your doctors advice. Also, make sure you're in a stable environment with little issues and have access to good healthcare. And finally, DON'T PRACTICE ENDOGAMY OVER GENERATIONS! IF ANYONE IN YOUR RECENT FAMILY HISTORY HAS DONE SO, AVOID IT! IF YOU REALLY MUST DO SUCH A THING, GET GENETIC TESTING DONE AND LISTEN TO THE RESULTS!

Now, I'm also going to give an Islamic perspective on this, and it's straight forward with no loop holes whatsoever, not to mention it coincides with what science says too.

Islamically, yes you can marry your cousin and commit endogamy, it's not haram. The people you are forbidden from marrying are mentioned in the Quran, chapter 4 verse 23. This does not include your cousin.

However, Islamically it is better to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Why? Because it can strengthen relations with Muslim's worldwide if everyone starts marrying Muslim's of different ethnicites, and break the racial divide among the ummah. You would also find it easier to convert non Muslim's to Islam by marrying them, another thing Islam encourages. So Islamically, the more distantly someone is related to you, the more suitable they are for marriage provided they are of good character and people of the book (if not then you must convert them to Islam before marrying them). This is evident as the prophet would marry people of completely different backgrounds to break racial and class divides, and to strengthen the ummah as a whole, as shown by his marriage to people such as Saffiya (RA) who was a Jewish Israelite, and Maria (RA) who was an Egyptian Christian (both went on to accept Islam). The majority of scholars (particularly from the Hanbali school of thought) regard it as mustahab (recommended) to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. This is shown in the Quran, particularly in chapter 49 verse 13.

However, when people in your recent family history have committed endogamy or married their cousins, it becomes haram (forbidden). Major figures such as Imam Ghazali have warned against doing such acts. They cite that once, Umar (RA) was visiting a group of people who committed endogamy/married their cousins constantly over generations, and he said:

“You all have become thin and weak (because of this), so marry outside the family (i.e not cousins).” [Iraqi, Takhrij Ahadith al-Ihya’]

There is no debate among scholars that Umar (RA) was referring to cousin marriages and things of that nature such as endogomy, so clearly it is Islamically forbidden to do such a thing over numerous generations. He obviously wasn't referring to it as a one off basis as the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) did such a thing.

Keep in mind, that Allah's Apostle (Peace Be Upon Him) said:

"so it is upon you to be upon my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the Rightly Guided Caliphs"

As we all know, Umar (RA) was a rightly guided caliph, and is regarded as one of the Prophet's most important companions, so much so that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said that if someone else would have been a prophet, it would have been Umar (RA), so do not take his words lightly.

Still not convinced? Some attribute a similar statement to Allah's Apostle (Peace be Upon Him):

“Marry outside the family, lest the offspring be thin and weak.”


Here are some sources:

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/seekersguidance-hanafi/32767

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011...eace-be-upon-him-discourage-marrying-cousins/

http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1138/what-does-the-quran-say-about-interracial-marriages


Still not convinced? Well here's one the most famous, knowledgeable and respected Islamic scholars (Zakir Naik) echoing what I just said:

Keep in mind Zakir Naik is also a doctor so he knows what he's talking about!

Hopefully I've now also convinced sceptics and now you all know that not only should you not marry your cousins regularly over generations, but also people from the same village/clan/tribe either, and it is best to marry someone as distantly related to you as possible. Thank you for reading.

@Hassan Guy @Kaptaan @Mugwop @Horus @Oscar @waz @war&peace @maximuswarrior @Luffy 500 @Devil Soul @Moonlight @Doordie @EpiiC @Iqbal Ali @LA se Karachi @Mentee @OrionHunter @PAKISTANFOREVER @Nilgiri @Zain Malik @Chinese-Dragon @WAJsal

Does Hazrat Umar RA words carry more weight or The marriage of Ahl e Bayt members Hazrat Ali RA and Hazrat Fatima RA carry more weight ?

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

Nobody marries their cousins anymore.

Watch Pakistani television drama serials and you will see there are so many cousin marriages.

Does Hazrat Umar RA words carry more weight or The marriage of Ahl e Bayt members Hazrat Ali RA and Hazrat Fatima RA carry more weight ?

What do the Sahaba say about cousin marriage ? There is no law in Islam propogating cousin marriages.

 

[sohailbutt1987]

Don't do it. I married my cousin, had 3 sons alhamdulillah but 2 had cataract under 6 months of age and had to go for cataract surgeries.

The 3rd one is fine Alhamdulillah.

 

[Bratva]

Watch Pakistani television drama serials and you will see there are so many cousin marriages.



What do the Sahaba say about cousin marriage ? There is no law in Islam propogating cousin marriages.

Ahl e bayt comes first, then sahaba.

 

[Hamza913]

Does Hazrat Umar RA words carry more weight or The marriage of Ahl e Bayt members Hazrat Ali RA and Hazrat Fatima RA carry more weight ?

That was a one off case, Umar (RA) was advising against doing it over several generations.

Nobody marries their cousins anymore.

The rates are significantly lower among the youth in more urban places, but among the poorer villagers things haven't changed much.

 

[MultaniGuy]

That was a one off case, Umar (RA) was advising against doing it over several generations.



The rates are significantly lower among the youth in more urban places, but among the poorer villagers things haven't changed much.

Only with education will birth defects be in the decline.

 

[Hamza913]

What do the Sahaba say about cousin marriage ? There is no law in Islam propogating cousin marriages.

My first post shows that Umar (RA) said it's forbidden to repeat it over several generations, and major Islamic scholars such as Imam Ghazali and Zakir Naik hold the same view.