Counterinsurgency | Exclusive Interview with a Pakistani Special Forces Operator.

[Irfan Baloch]

I thoroughly enjoyed it and it offered a very unique view of the same situation to me, as Field Ops, these guys operate on their own understanding of the raw intel that they are given, not as thorough as our stuff but what they do with it is pretty amazing none the less though I could only wonder how much sense the same article would have made to someone who is not so well acquainted with military specifics.
It was a treat to go through none the less.

thanks Sir,
I will pass him the feedback.

maybe you can imagine I had to omit so much due to the sensitivity and keep the "young/ "civilized" reader interested otherwise it would have gone for much longer. I was taking short notes on a piece of paper and letting him speak most of the time but after producing the interview I was very mindful that I dont mix up things and it doesnt look wrong. so I had it read and reviewed by another Fouji. since this article was my baby so I didnt trust myself one can miss the obvious and get things wrong.

 

[Kompromat]

@Irfan Baloch

@Icarus baba ny tick de di hai, now our aatma can rest in shaanti.

 

[Xeric]

@Icarus and @Xeric your presence and comments are long overdue here
do give me pointers before I arrange my next interview with someone leading a Mech Inf in the Zarb e Azab.

thanks

Janab, i am on my way to read it, just not getting enough time nor focus to enjoy it properly. Will do.

 

[Omega007]

Dear @Irfan Baloch sir,only two words to describe this piece - simply brilliant!!Aap to chaa gaye bhai.Keep up the good work.

 

[paki_rambo]

go0od!!! they had too much fun with there clothes o0on!!!

 

[krash]

results so far have been satisfactory

Satisfactory? No......they have been phenomenal! I took my sweet time reading this and I assure you that I'll have my grand kids read this too, if and when I have any. The icing on the cake was the inclusion of the FC personnel.

Just some things I got a little confused with; How many actual snipers were there in No.2 and No.3 Shakai Valley teams, each? Why weren't the assault teams and the last two sniper teams para-dropped? The first 2(3?) sentries that were dropped by the snipers were on the roof or in the courtyard? The lone sniper exfil-ed with the assault times or did he fall back while the assault teams exfil-ed and then moved out with the other two teams? What do the different coloured stars represent on the maps, could we have a legend for them? Reading this at work so probably I'm at fault for not understanding.

Thank you gentlemen this has been brilliant and an absolute pleasure!

Ps: If you guys need any help editing, or whatever, for your next project then I'd gladly volunteer.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Satisfactory? No......they have been phenomenal! I took my sweet time reading this and I assure you that I'll have my grand kids read this too, if and when I have any. The icing on the cake was the inclusion of the FC personnel.

Just some things I got a little confused with; How many actual snipers were there in No.2 and No.3 Shakai Valley teams, each? Why weren't the assault teams and the last two sniper teams para-dropped? The first 2(3?) sentries that were dropped by the snipers were on the roof or in the courtyard? The lone sniper exfil-ed with the assault times or did he fall back while the assault teams exfil-ed and then moved out with the other two teams? What do the different coloured stars represent on the maps, could we have a legend for them? Reading this at work so probably I'm at fault for not understanding.

Thank you gentlemen this has been brilliant and an absolute pleasure!

Ps: If you guys need any help editing, or whatever, for your next project then I'd gladly volunteer.

I will try to answer in a summary for what I know and understood
first let me list down your questions and then I will answer the easy ones

What do the different coloured stars represent on the maps
this is the question about Zanghal Khel operation

they represent different objects on the map. and have labels next to them already. in case if they denote the route of an object then one of the star has that legend.

e.g. the red 5 corners stars are the 3 assault teams around the complex. you will see that name in the top centre and next to the Icons denoting group of soldiers in tactical stance.

the yellow 4 corner star shows the blue route of the cobra gunship which was called in for CAS.
the blue / aqua 4 star represents the terrorist files that moved out on an orange path before getting ambushed

The lone sniper exfil-ed with the assault teames or did he fall back while the assault teams exfil-ed and then moved out with the other two teams?
this is related to Shakai operation

all sniper teams including this single member were first to arrive and last to leave. they provided cover and scouted the route for the main body of the operation teams and pinned down the enemy while the assault teams made their way out of the operation zone. the lone sniper also didnt linger long and followed the Bannu route.

The first 2(3?) sentries that were dropped by the snipers were on the roof or in the courtyard?
the sentries were on top of the roof and burgies (watch towers by the boundary walls). they were all on elevated area to keep a long and clear field of view. no one was engaged in the courtyard until the assault teams had positioned themselves otherwise the cover could have been blown too early. taking out those sentries was essential to ensure secure and silent entry.

How many actual snipers were there in No.2 and No.3 Shakai Valley teams
all sniper teams were made up of two people spotter and shooter. except a lone sniper. the Shakai operation had 5 members in total for 3 sniper teams. they had clear field of fire all around the compound and most of the inside.

Why weren't the assault teams and the last two sniper teams para-dropped
this question I cant answer and whatever I will say might generate your follow up questions so I can only speculate from what I understood and noted down.

there are pros and cons for any method of transport. it is limited by the weather conditions, wind speed. the noise, availability of the means of transport and their suitability.

if para dropping a lone sniper closer to the target from higher altitude was seen appropriate then it might not have been a case for a bigger team which could get spotted or drifted away or spent good amount of time looking for each other and gathering up. para dropping is not always a smooth business and can lead to unexpected incidents like injury and/ or drifting away to close or too far away and landing in a ditch or getting stuck on a tree etc.

maybe fast roping from helicopters some good miles away from target with the mountains providing cushion and cover from sound and visual were seen as a better option. our successful and largest heli-bourne assault in Sawat valley is in front of us as an example that took the retreating TTP with the surprise.

what say you?
thanks for the offer of support for our next projects. just let yourself known much and we can do something together.

 

[krash]

I will try to answer in a summary for what I know and understood
first let me list down your questions and then I will answer the easy ones

What do the different coloured stars represent on the maps
this is the question about Zanghal Khel operation

they represent different objects on the map. and have labels next to them already. in case if they denote the route of an object then one of the star has that legend.

e.g. the red 5 corners stars are the 3 assault teams around the complex. you will see that name in the top centre and next to the Icons denoting group of soldiers in tactical stance.

the yellow 4 corner star shows the blue route of the cobra gunship which was called in for CAS.
the blue / aqua 4 star represents the terrorist files that moved out on an orange path before getting ambushed

Now that you've explained it, it seems so simple and makes me feel stupid not to have understood them in the first place.

The first 2(3?) sentries that were dropped by the snipers were on the roof or in the courtyard?
the sentries were on top of the roof and burgies (watch towers by the boundary walls). they were all on elevated area to keep a long and clear field of view. no one was engaged in the courtyard until the assault teams had positioned themselves otherwise the cover could have been blown too early. taking out those sentries was essential to ensure secure and silent entry.

Ok. My confusion's with our snipers taking out the 3 sentries on the roof before the assault teams went over the boundary walls and then the snipers taking marks on another 2 as the assault teams prepared to engage the talibs in the courtyard. So were the last 2 sents on the roof appreciably obscured not to have noticed the first 3's falls or to have noticed the assault teams entering the compound? Also the first 3 were taken out by the sniper team to the north so they weren't simultaneous kills, given the single shooter in the team. I know this confusion is probably because I'm imagining a singe deck, single level roof. But I guess the burgies and the fact that the timeline was divided in mere seconds explains it a bit.

How many actual snipers were there in No.2 and No.3 Shakai Valley teams
all sniper teams were made up of two people spotter and shooter. except a lone sniper. the Shakai operation had 5 members in total for 3 sniper teams. they had clear field of fire all around the compound and most of the inside.

Ok. So then the 5 talibs killed before the assault teams engaged the targets in the courtyard weren't simultaneous kills but super cool rapid kills by the 3 shooters. That's what I wanted to know.

Why weren't the assault teams and the last two sniper teams para-dropped
this question I cant answer and whatever I will say might generate your follow up questions so I can only speculate from what I understood and noted down.

there are pros and cons for any method of transport. it is limited by the weather conditions, wind speed. the noise, availability of the means of transport and their suitability.

if para dropping a lone sniper closer to the target from higher altitude was seen appropriate then it might not have been a case for a bigger team which could get spotted or drifted away or spent good amount of time looking for each other and gathering up. para dropping is not always a smooth business and can lead to unexpected incidents like injury and/ or drifting away to close or too far away and landing in a ditch or getting stuck on a tree etc.

maybe fast roping from helicopters some good miles away from target with the mountains providing cushion and cover from sound and visual were seen as a better option. our successful and largest heli-bourne assault in Sawat valley is in front of us as an example that took the retreating TTP with the surprise.

Got it, thank you. Was just wondering if we knew the reasons for not para-dropping the rest in this particular mission.

thanks for the offer of support for our next projects. just let yourself known much and we can do something together.

Aye aye.

Got some more questions, if I may; do we know how many in total we killed that day in Shakai? And about the mortar report our guy said that the round reaches the target before the sound. How can that be when the round isn't travelling at supersonic speeds and also has an elliptical trajectory? Or is it that the report never actually does reach the target? If its not too much of a hassle, can we by any chance have rudimentary drawings of the interior and exterior plans of the compound?

Many thanks again.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@krash
if I wrote down every little thing then this interview would have been much bigger and might have been boring for some. we had to find a good mix of some detail and some brief for a bigger audience.

I was taking short notes during the interview and reproduced it after like a month or so. @Horus will tell you that I gave him the headsup about 2 months ago before the final copy was reviewed few times and edited and published. in the end I was regretting for undertaking a solo undertaking and was worried that I would leave rough or inconsistent parts in the interview.

I didnt do justice to writing down the initial engagement, only those sentries were picked off that had eye contact to each other and were immediate threat to the breaching teams. others were stationed or patrolling the compound and distracted due to the arrival as well but were still a priority because they would have been first to engage the teams had they realized that they were under attack.

the mortar and artillery shell trajectory did come into discussion and since I have the experience of live firing so I didnt need any explaining. I added few questions for the benefit of the reader. we had a mutual laugh about the Hollywood version of the whistling sounds when a round is about to impact at a place. the thing is that place never gets to hear it.

as far as the huge "THUD" of the mortar and the time of the impact of the round is concerned, I welcome you to do the paper math if you want. my interviewee was not at that place and gave a rough account of what he learnt at the debrief.
I did raise that question and concern about the sound.

but it seems there is a typo in the article. round reaching the target before sound makes it super sonic.
the gist was, target didnt hear the incoming (whistling) round and distance was too short and time interval between mortar fire and impact too short for the enemy to react specially when they were getting hit by other teams as well. seems like we all missed it apart from a typo of the recce in earlier pages.

he gave a rough count of people present when they were engaged in both places, Shakai had 20 to 40 people where as the Zanghal Khel seems to had about 70 or 80 people and it was a massive firefight. cant say about Zanghal Khel but in Shakai they didnt leave anyone alive unless some one buried or hiding in the rubble pretending to be dead.

enjoy the following re ballistic trajectory calculations lol


Trajectory of a projectile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EAK]

simply awesome...

 

[krash]

@krash
if I wrote down every little thing then this interview would have been much bigger and might have been boring for some. we had to find a good mix of some detail and some brief for a bigger audience.

I was taking short notes during the interview and reproduced it after like a month or so. @Horus will tell you that I gave him the headsup about 2 months ago before the final copy was reviewed few times and edited and published. in the end I was regretting for undertaking a solo undertaking and was worried that I would leave rough or inconsistent parts in the interview.

I didnt do justice to writing down the initial engagement,

Didn't take one smidgen away from the article, it's one hell of an effort. I just got a little too excited and went about trying to enquire every little detail. I believe this is the first time we've actually read or come to know of an operation in this comprehensive detail, we felt like we were there. Gave a lot of perspective with regards to our men.

only those sentries were picked off that had eye contact to each other and were immediate threat to the breaching teams. others were stationed or patrolling the compound and distracted due to the arrival as well but were still a priority because they would have been first to engage the teams had they realized that they were under attack.

Got it.

as far as the huge "THUD" of the mortar and the time of the impact of the round is concerned, I welcome you to do the paper math if you want. my interviewee was not at that place and gave a rough account of what he learnt at the debrief.
I did raise that question and concern about the sound.

but it seems there is a typo in the article. round reaching the target before sound makes it super sonic.
the gist was, target didnt hear the incoming (whistling) round and distance was too short and time interval between mortar fire and impact too short for the enemy to react specially when they were getting hit by other teams as well. seems like we all missed it apart from a typo of the recce in earlier pages.

That explains it perfectly.

he gave a rough count of people present when they were engaged in both places, Shakai had 20 to 40 people where as the Zanghal Khel seems to had about 70 or 80 people and it was a massive firefight. cant say about Zanghal Khel but in Shakai they didnt leave anyone alive unless some one buried or hiding in the rubble pretending to be dead.

Thank you.

enjoy the following re ballistic trajectory calculations lol


Trajectory of a projectile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hahaha I've done these way too many times.


Many thanks again!

 

[A.M.]

This was amazing! Proud to be a pakistani!

 

[Kompromat]

Janab, i am on my way to read it, just not getting enough time nor focus to enjoy it properly. Will do.

Still on the way?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Still on the way?

I wont blame @Xeric because I still didnt finish his Siachin article, the Imaged posts were a hassle for my computer and I gave up earlier. but I will print and read them now.

towards the last part of this interview we need to fix this mortar round part. I rechecked many times but I miss typed and mixed the talk about the supersonic artillery shell and the mortar round. the point was that the distance is so small that the targeting terrorists had no time to react and take evasive action (hear the report, register that in mind and then look for cover).
it shows like a soar thumb and if its not too much hassle then I suggest we fix it. next time I will record such interviews.. if this interview is quoted elsewhere then this thing will show up as bad

kya baat ha.......Aj tum pro pak hoi gye ho RSS wale tumhe chorain gy nahin.

go easy brother, it was his honest and polite comment . dont make him regret that.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@Abingdonboy

Read the full info in page #1.

@Capt.Popeye u too and u @Major Shaitan Singh