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Could Myanmar and Bangladesh Go To War Over the Rohingya Crisis?

china, closest ally of pakistan sat it out when kargil happened, how do you rate your current situation compared to kargil war, and your current relation with either china or India ... compared to sino-pak relation?

every relation has its limit, bd has not invested enough political capital in either delhi and bejing so much so that they will forget their own strategic interest and dance to your tune.
when I said foreign policy is a success, it meant bd has balanced expectation of two big powers to her benefit... thats not a small feat in itself.

I have already given reasons why BD cannot break with China. It is just too important economically and militarily to BD.

India, on the other hand, has been shown to be an utter waste of space. It's leader went to give verbal support to Myanmar while it's army was engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is how much Awami League has succeeded with India with it's India policy. India has next to nothing to offer BD economically or militarily. If nothing else, Indian behaviour will naturally weaken the pro-India faction in BD which is an excellent thing.

PS - So explain what tangible benefits that BD gets from India like it does with China?
 
I have already given reasons why BD cannot break with China. It is just too important economically and militarily to BD.

India, on the other hand, has been shown to be an utter waste of space. It's leader went to give verbal support to Myanmar while it's army was engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is how much Awami League has succeeded with India with it's India policy. India has next to nothing to offer BD economically or militarily. If nothing else, Indian behaviour will naturally weaken the pro-India faction in BD which is an excellent thing.

PS - So explain what tangible benefits that BD gets from India like it does with China?

Don't know how single cell organisms like you have survived till now.Lol lungi gang
 
China and Russia is pretty much the opposite. India...supportive yet somewhat subtle. Very subtle....Yet praising Bangladesh and claiming to be working on the Rohingya issue. Is this just to make the ruling party happy? Maybe. But I think a working relationship can happen with them in the long run.

And you say you read the dumbest thing? What world are you in? China and Russia just torpedoed us despite amicable relations on our part. And the fact that much of our weaponry are sourced from them.

Even a delegation went to China to talk to the Chinese (at their invitation). I suspect they were laughed at.

Yet ostrich fellows like @Homo Sapiens and others in this forum keep their head firmly in the sand about it...and continue to defend China to the hilt (they are perfect and can do no wrong etc etc...they have simply not taken sides at all and are not actively anti-BD blah blah blah no matter what they help MM with)

BD remains very polarised place. The more polarised you are, the more false idols all over the place you will make. BD would be a much more confident pragmatic country if more BD elite think along your lines...but instead emotion and subsequent faulty reasoning runs amok. Very disturbing for a country having a population approaching 200 million....which should really not be needing any perceived stoic friends other than itself.
 
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Absolutely put the Rohingya in Chittagong hills give them land and residency and maybe start pushing your million buddists in to Myanmar

As per partition it would be a exchange of population

Rather then going to war you need to start thinking about how to use pressure upon the buddists as a tool

wow so basically your solution to ethnic cleansing in Myanmar is to do ethnic cleansing in BD ...............:suicide2:
 
if I was civilian leader in bd i would not do it much different, is all am saying. bd is doing pretty good economically and has managed to balance relationship with all big countries effectively. bd also has some history of army takeover, so its pragmatic to keep army weak and hooked onto dollars(earned from UN deployment)... bd does need a sizable army to protect herself from either of her neighbor so maintaining force level makes sense. but giving any substantial teeth to them leads to adventurism, that can topple civilian govt.
Myanmar situation is relatively small issue for bd in grand scheme of things, and diplomatic solution by engaging with international community is correct way forward. BD should keep pressing on it.

Keep the army weak to prevent a takeover? In the history of Bangladesh, I do not think the army engaged in any adventurism against another country in history.

Of-course I hope for a diplomatic solution. However, military intervention is not off the table but it should be the last resort.

Spending more on arms is just a part of a change that is required in BD strategy.

Definitely.

Look at it this way. Myanmar is planning to spend 2 billion US dollars on defence this year which is 3% of their GDP. BD is planning to spend 3.2 billion US dollars which is 1.25% of BD GDP. BD need not increase defence spending massively but a hike to 2% of GDP would mean that BD defence budget would be 2.5x what Myanmar spends. Assuming this increase is phased in over 5 years then it should not massively impact other areas like education, health and infrastructure that are also important. My point is that unless Myanmar goes back to eating arms, it cannot hope to come close to matching even a modest increase in defence spening by BD.

Agreed. But from who should we source the weapons from? Can we trust the current suppliers? Even if we spend money on arms, it won't necessarily give us an edge against them.

For example, if we buy 8 MiG-35's (one of the very likely contenders in our combat aircraft tender), they'll buy twice as many. They are now interested in the MiG-35 as we speak. By the time the PAK-FA matures for mass production sometime in 2020-2025-ish timeline, they will undoubtedly be offered such.

All I'm saying is that we have to have an edge over them not just by having a sound doctrine, but keep the equipment and the technology behind them as far away from Burmese or any rogue entity as possible. This is an essential part of our security should we play a zero sum game against their Junta.

The future of warfare and bearing fruitful results lies not in physical arms and big spending, but in the ethereal. Those who can see the subtle are bound to get the rewards. One has to be formless and yet make an impact just like water.

Not easy, I know. But, it is essential.

BD politics needs to be reorietanted to see both Myanmar and India as major threats to BD wellbeing. While not being overtly hostile to India, BD needs to maintain relations at a more distant level that it does now. India has an interest in a subservient BD.

Absolutely. And that is the hard and unpredictable part. Even though SHW is apprehensive about the refugee influx (she has every reason to be), I am not certain how her party will be able to handle the diplomacy.

Finally China should be used for infrastructure loans, weapons imports and joint development but BD needs to understand that in certain key areas like Myanmar, it may not necessarily side with BD.

We have many lenders like IMF, World Bank, ADB, etc. There are many private financial institutions abroad willing to give loans and do give loans to various PPP projects, Bangladeshi enterprises and banks which enhance their Off-shore portfolio. What is so special about Chinese loans? They may be nice, but they don't necessarily offer us any edge.

I say we do business with them. Same with the Russians.

As far as arms imports go, I would look someplace else to be honest. It is worth mentioning China's frustrated efforts to create an engine for modern aircraft. What value can we possibly offer and what value can we get?

The only reason we buy arms from China is because they are cheap, and fills their pockets. That is it. They don't have strategic depth here in BD. It is the big picture, not 'certain key areas' that count. Strategy doesn't work that way. They have a lot of stake in Burma.

Agreed on this point.

Disagree that BD needs to wait for the world. There is no strategic interest for large powers like the US and EU to act in Myanmar. BD needs to increase it's military capability, make common cause with key powerful Muslim countries like Turkey and Iran, and hit the Myanmarese hard with full force as soon as it can. Diplomacy will not work with inherently racist and anti-Muslim savages from across the border.

Much of the economic activities will be going on in Asia, more specifically in South East Asia. And it will be that way for a long time. Ask any banker, economist, politician or diplomat and they'll tell you that. No one is ignoring that part of the region. Why do you think so many are going nuts over South China Sea? It will be just as important as the Middle East. Everyone has a stake there including the US and its allies in the region. You don't see that because the UK has indeed been a very passive player of late. They should do more so that people take notice. And playing field is here, in Asia.

Yes, absolutely we should make friends with powerful Muslim-majority nations. Especially with Turkey being a NATO member. Though, the current administration had antagonized some of those countries along the Middle Eastern nations. The attitude of having the tendency of taking things personally needs to go.

And lastly, information is a powerful weapon. We have to provide more and more evidence via the UN that there had indeed been a genocide so that the world can act against the Junta and rid them once and for all. We have to convince the Russians and the Chinese. That way, the UNSC can act, and we hold both the military and the civilian leadership accountable. Bangladesh needs to be on the spotlight to make the case for intervention. Without global and regional support, it'd be meaningless, and their plight forgotten. This will take time but it will be worth it.

That is not right as BD will use miltary force to protect a defenceless civilian population rather than kill and raping them.

It is their territory, their country. It just wouldn't be right. Also, there's a massive propaganda campaign going on in there. About Bangladesh wanting to conquer Rakhine through terrorism (which is of-course a huge lie). Doing so would prove them right. They'll simply seize that initiative while burying their brutal acts so that the world forgets. They have set the groundwork for us. Now, we set the groundwork for them in return.
 
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I have already given reasons why BD cannot break with China. It is just too important economically and militarily to BD.

India, on the other hand, has been shown to be an utter waste of space. It's leader went to give verbal support to Myanmar while it's army was engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is how much Awami League has succeeded with India with it's India policy. India has next to nothing to offer BD economically or militarily. If nothing else, Indian behaviour will naturally weaken the pro-India faction in BD which is an excellent thing.

PS - So explain what tangible benefits that BD gets from India like it does with China?
i never asserted India is of help to BD, you are building strawman... or may be replying to wrong post? I am merely suggesting from India's point of view it will be stupid to sacrifice its strategic objective because bd says so. there are better argument(moral reason for example) to not openly support myanmar at this point.
what bd does is upto them, you cant have normal card and bitch about not having lounge access.
There is grade of strength in diplomatic relationship... our relation with russia for example cannot be same as that with USA, both are technically our 'friend'.
 
Yet ostrich fellows like @Homo Sapiens and others in this forum keep their head firmly in the sand about it...and continue to defend China to the hilt (they are perfect and can do no wrong etc etc...they have simply not taken sides at all and are not actively anti-BD blah blah blah no matter what they help MM with)

China doesn't necessarily have any strategic interests, at least not under the current administration. In Burma, they have. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But it is nice to always do business with them.

You know by the time they said 'we support Myanmar's development and security', I thought 'what about my development and security?'. The developments that followed had me convinced. It's dirty international politics. And I'm not wasting a second nor place an ounce of faith in them. Though, I admit that our political parties haven't been doing their homework with regards to national issues. We did however work on having amicable relationships with China and Russia. God knows what price the Burmese citizen paid.

What perplexes me is that how is it that a bunch of British-Bangladeshi guys love China and do not appreciate the fact that the country they are a part of can be a powerful stage to voice their concerns. It's an UNSC member and a democracy. They are worshiping (yeah, literally) a country they know nothing about and have absolutely nothing in common with regards to their values, democracy and culture. I know because I lived in the UK for some years, and I do know the Bangladeshi community over there, their hurdles/struggles they face and their achievements.

BD remains very polarised place. The more polarised you are, the more false idols all over the place you will make. BD would be a much more confident pragmatic country if more BD elite think along your lines...but instead emotion and subsequent faulty reasoning runs amok. Very disturbing for a country having a population approaching 200 million....which should really not be needing any perceived stoic friends other than itself.

Yes, we lack pragmatism.

And there's the population, mostly the poor (who are responsible for the massive population hikes). Pretty scary to think about it considering the crisis that's unfolding.
 
Hardly an issue. China can't keep others away from SCS. What can they even do in Myanmar or BD? Remove their investments? That's all. Big talk. Look at what your backings have done to NK? People there can't eat. Similar with Burma before west removed their sanctions. If you guys are trying to turn Myanmar into another North Korea you guys may succeed. But this won't do any good for the region.
Exactly, this is the reason will not let China to become a super power like USA. Because China can never be liberal like west.
Ofcourse all westerns are not liberal and current us president is not a responsible person, but he doesn't represent the whole USA.

China officially supported the genocide and proved that if (God Forbid) China will replace USA as super power, the world will be in serious trouble.
 
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রোহিঙ্গা ইস্যুতে কোন উস্কানিতে সরকার প্ররোচিত হবে না : ওবায়দুল কাদের

আওয়ামী লীগের সাধারণ সম্পাদক এবং সড়ক পরিবহন ও সেতুমন্ত্রী ওবায়দুল কাদের বলেছেন, রোহিঙ্গা ইস্যুতে সীমান্তে মিয়ানমার সেনাবাহিনীর কোনো উস্কানিতে সরকার প্ররোচিত হবে না। সর্তকতার সঙ্গে রোহিঙ্গা সমস্যা সমাধানে কাজ করছে সরকার।
নোয়াখালীর কোম্পানীগঞ্জ উপজেলার বসুরহাট পৌরসভার নিজ বাড়িতে আজ শনিবার দুস্থ অসহায় লোকজনের মাঝে এবং মসজিদ-মাদ্ররাসায় অনুদানের চেক হস্তান্তর শেষে সাংবাদিকদের প্রশ্নের জবাবে তিনি এ কথা বলেন।

ওবায়দুল কাদের বলেন, জাতিসঙ্ঘ বর্তমান অধিবেশনে রোহিঙ্গা বিষয়ে প্রধানমন্ত্রীর দেয়া বক্তব্য বিশ্ব নেতৃবৃন্দের কাছে প্রশংসিত হয়েছে। তবে আমাদের দেশের একটি দলের এ বক্তব্য পছন্দ হয়নি। কারণ তারা প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার বক্তব্য ঠিকমতো শুনেননি।
বিএনপিকে উদ্দেশ্যে করে তিনি বলেন, তাদের হাতে মূলত কোনো ইস্যু নেই। তাই রোহিঙ্গা ইস্যুকে পূঁজি করে তারা ঘোলা পানিতে মাছ শিকারের চেষ্টা করছে। তাদের এ অপতৎপরতা সফল হবে না।
আওয়ামী লীগের সাধারণ সম্পাদক বলেন, প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনা রোহিঙ্গা সংকট খুবই বিচক্ষনতা ও দৃঢ়তার সাথে মোকাবেলা করছেন। আমরা তাঁর নেতৃত্বে সর্তকতার সাথে পদক্ষেপ নিচ্ছি। রোহিঙ্গা সংকট নিয়ে আমরা সমাধানের দিকে এগিয়ে যাচ্ছি। এ মুহূর্তে বিরোধীদের বক্তব্যে বিভ্রান্ত হওয়া যাবে না।
 
It is just too important economically and militarily to BD.
How China is too important economically and militarily to BD?

What economic and military support China can give that others can't?
 
How China is too important economically and militarily to BD?

What economic and military support China can give that others can't?
China is very important when you put India in the equation. We cant let China go... as we have a bigger shark behind the smaller one.
 
How China is too important economically and militarily to BD?

What economic and military support China can give that others can't?

1. 24 billion US dollars of low interest loans.
2. Technology transfer to build ships, missiles etc.
3. Billion dollar US import market growing at 20% a year - double the total BD export growth.
4. Cutting edge weapons at 1/3rd to 1/2 price against Russia or Western suppliers.
 
China is very important when you put India in the equation. We cant let China go... as we have a bigger shark behind the smaller one.
Actually no international relationship is eternal,but it depends on personal interest.
It's not that only Bangladesh need China, but China also need Bangladesh because if it's strategically important to China.
China if China will cut tie with Bangladesh India will.be beneficial and China will also lost influence in this region that China surely would not want.
Sometimes a small and weaker country can be very important.
And another thing Bangladesh already became Indian cultural colony, so what worse India can do if we don't compromise with every negative actions of China?
India can't annex Bangladesh as long as bangladeshi peoples want it. And also bd is called as the defense heaven due to it's geography.
 
China is very important when you put India in the equation. We cant let China go... as we have a bigger shark behind the smaller one.
Agreed. This what I've also stated before. China is only good to counter Indian influence.
 
1. 24 billion US dollars of low interest loans.
2. Technology transfer to build ships, missiles etc.
3. Billion dollar US import market growing at 20% a year - double the total BD export growth.
4. Cutting edge weapons at 1/3rd to 1/2 price against Russia or Western suppliers.
Every other country can provide same opportunity if you can spend cash on them.it's all about diplomacy and relationship.
On the other hand for military you don't need to find cheaper weapons,this mistake can be costly if really India ever dare to try to annex our country.
Military logistics should be very sophisticated, because not the military number but logistics will help you survive against a bigger enemy.

And about low interest loan? China isn't the only country who gave us low interest loan at past.
And also China gave it for the sake of business not for charity.
 
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