Costly upgrades, $850 millions for four Kilo class Submarines

[Blue Marlin]

Well Egypt got first 2 Type-209s for 920 million Euros( 550 million usd/unit). Same with Portugal which bought it for more than 500 million USD/unit.

Egypt wanted more than just 2 submarines. and Portugal has a specific specialised variant of the type 214.

Well we already are building 6 scorpenes while govt is planning to increase order by another 4 so Indian navy might see a total of 10 scorpenes at the end followed by 6 P-75I subs with VLS.

yeh good idea for once. i read that they wanted to order more and ensure that the shipyard just simply build the subs and then after building them retain the technique and the technology used to build them

@Blue Marlin here is another news which says that 3 type-209s will now cost Indonesian navy $1.40 Billion USD ( While earlier it was estimated to be around 1.1 billion).
South Korea’s $1.1 Billion Dollar Submarine Deal with Indonesia on Thin Ice | Asia Security Watch[/QUOTE]
if you think that 1.4 billion is only for subs then you must do some research before commenting. also this page says the original cost was 1.1 billion then went up to 1.4 billion. procurements comes with training, maintenance, servicing, spare parts and weapons.

 

[Rangila]

Indian Company EXIDE provides those batteries to the Submarines operated by Indian Navy.

This above mentioned famous Indian company has exported these submarine batteries to Algeria.

 

[Agent_47]

no such agreement has been signed as yet just there have been talks going on abt feasibility of this upgrades of aging kilo class submarines

Do some research before making such blunt statements.
Russia to upgrade Indian Navy's Kilo-class submarines - Naval Technology
Stealth submarines upgraded for India could hit targets at sea and on land | Russia & India Report
Navy Signs Rs 5,000 Crore Pact with Russian Shipbuilder Zvezdochka for Kilo class Submarine Refit

 

[Echo_419]

actually no the scorpene submarine is a better option.
your already building them, build more of them.
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It will take time to build new sub's & the kilos are a mean bunch,upgrading them will benefit us

 

[[Bregs]]

Do some research before making such blunt statements.
Russia to upgrade Indian Navy's Kilo-class submarines - Naval Technology
Stealth submarines upgraded for India could hit targets at sea and on land | Russia & India Report
Navy Signs Rs 5,000 Crore Pact with Russian Shipbuilder Zvezdochka for Kilo class Submarine Refit

only one submarine has been decided there has been no formal contract

 

[Blue Marlin]

It will take time to build new sub's & the kilos are a mean bunch,upgrading them will benefit us

dont you feel that upgrading them will have no value? the kilo class subs are diesel electric subs and diesel subs are in my opinion obsolete other than to having them for littoral patrol. other than that, they have no purpose. even that is stretching it a 3000+ tonne 30 year old sub will be very easy to detect via sonar, sonobuoys, mad's and lod's. also if you think that you will be a part of ww3 in next 4 years then go for it. scorpean's are the best solution it may take a while but the cycle has just began and finishing it at 6 is a waste. follow the south Korea route, have them batches. and other scorpean operators may use india to service/overhaul their subs too and may buy them directly from you. i read that the government is adamant to keep the scorpean production go for as long as possible in order to maintain the technology it has attained from France. for once i agree with the government.

 

[Ind4Ever]

actually no the scorpene submarine is a better option.
your already building them, build more of them.
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We will build 4-6 more for sure. Why we won't when we have capability to do so? . This is different deal altogether.now we will have 9 fully operational SSK for active duty from old kilo class fleet. Our old German boats 209 too will be upgraded with new weapon systems. With induction of 6 scorpene subs before 2020-2021 And 4 more follow on And new tender for 6 bigger SSK program P75I for which money already been allocated will make our SSK fleet strength into multidimensional force in IOR region defending our waters.

SSNs also coming soon for long range operation deep inside SCS

 

[Blue Marlin]

We will build 4-6 more for sure. Why we won't when we have capability to do so? . This is different deal altogether.now we will have 9 fully operational SSK for active duty from old kilo class fleet. Our old German boats 209 too will be upgraded with new weapon systems. With induction of 6 scorpene subs before 2020-2021 And 4 more follow on And new tender for 6 bigger SSK program P75I for which money already been allocated will make our SSK fleet strength into multidimensional force in IOR region defending our waters.

SSNs also coming soon for long range operation deep inside SCS

im sure somewhere on this thread that an indian member said your building 10, which is 4 more than the planned. which is a good idea. i dont understand the p75i tender. i dont get it. question is why? just order more scorpene's i know the subs for the p75i will be bigger. so will this mean that india is looking for a tender similar to the Collin class replacement project?
here are some good contenders, also the a26 from sweden
Navy set to upgrade, boost existing fleet - Indian Express

 

[kaykay]

im sure somewhere on this thread that an indian member said your building 10, which is 4 more than the planned. which is a good idea. i dont understand the p75i tender. i dont get it. question is why? just order more scorpene's i know the subs for the p75i will be bigger. so will this mean that india is looking for a tender similar to the Collin class replacement project?
here are some good contenders, also the a26 from sweden
Navy set to upgrade, boost existing fleet - Indian Express
View attachment 266377

Yes. There are 3 ssk/ssn projects going on in India currently.
P-75 ( In which Scorpene was selected. 6 confirmed, 4 more speculated)

P-75I ( In which DCNS has offered a bigger Scorpene with VLS and AIP, Russia has offered Amur with VLS and AIP and other similar offers from Germany and other countries)

Project 75I-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indigenous SSN( India has planned 6 nuclear powered attack submarines).

Indian Navy SSN programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Agent_47]

only one submarine has been decided there has been no formal contract

DAC/CCS has cleared the deal for 4 kilos. Even deal is signed with Zvezdochka shipyard.
Pipavav may take part in last 2-3 sub upgrade.
Navy signs Rs 5,000 crore pact with Russian shipbuilder Zvezdochka for Kilo class submarine refit - The Economic Times
DAC Approval for Defence Projects worth Rs 80,000 cr -The New Indian Express

Try to back claims with source

 

[Blue Marlin]

Yes. There are 3 ssk/ssn projects going on in India currently.
P-75 ( In which Scorpene was selected. 6 confirmed, 4 more speculated)

P-75I ( In which DCNS has offered a bigger Scorpene with VLS and AIP, Russia has offered Amur with VLS and AIP and other similar offers from Germany and other countries)

Project 75I-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indigenous SSN( India has planned 6 nuclear powered attack submarines).

Indian Navy SSN programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeh, that sounds about right.

 

[[Bregs]]

DAC/CCS has cleared the deal for 4 kilos. Even deal is signed with Zvezdochka shipyard.
Pipavav may take part in last 2-3 sub upgrade.
Navy signs Rs 5,000 crore pact with Russian shipbuilder Zvezdochka for Kilo class submarine refit - The Economic Times
DAC Approval for Defence Projects worth Rs 80,000 cr -The New Indian Express

Try to back claims with source

ok dear may be i missed this news as it was not in regular papers i read but in economic times

 

[Ind4Ever]

im sure somewhere on this thread that an indian member said your building 10, which is 4 more than the planned. which is a good idea. i dont understand the p75i tender. i dont get it. question is why? just order more scorpene's i know the subs for the p75i will be bigger. so will this mean that india is looking for a tender similar to the Collin class replacement project?
here are some good contenders, also the a26 from sweden
Navy set to upgrade, boost existing fleet - Indian Express
View attachment 266377

10 in numbers are pure rumours. As of now there is no plans to aquire 10 P75I but due to our expanding ambitions it's highly possible to have 6 more P75I. As far as P75 are concerned Indian Navy already willing to pay for 4 more. But you need to understand scorpene subs are smaller in size than our P75I. It will be used heavily for shallow water operations but P75I for major offensive roles to the east and far East.

We should go for 12 P75 I but since our own submarine program with ToTs from 2019 onwards. So I highly doubt we will go for 10 or 12 SSK under P75I. But 4 more P75 is unofficially conformed. ... By 2022-2025 India will have at least 25 SSKs operational. Without including our own submarine program and SSNs.

Now that's some awesome brilliant planning

 

[Blue Marlin]

10 in numbers are pure rumours. As of now there is no plans to aquire 10 P75I but due to our expanding ambitions it's highly possible to have 6 more P75I. As far as P75 are concerned Indian Navy already willing to pay for 4 more. But you need to understand scorpene subs are smaller in size than our P75I. It will be used heavily for shallow water operations but P75I for major offensive roles to the east and far East.

We should go for 12 P75 I but since our own submarine program with ToTs from 2019 onwards. So I highly doubt we will go for 10 or 12 SSK under P75I. But 4 more P75 is unofficially conformed. ... By 2022-2025 India will have at least 25 SSKs operational. Without including our own submarine program and SSNs.

Now that's some awesome brilliant planning

actually submarines are mainly used in lots of 3. i said 10 because someone else did, an i read it else where.
the p75i will be about 3000-4500 tonne this is about the size of a kilo. why will a big heavy sub be used in shallow waters? its then a sitting duck. it can be detected by mad and lod very easily. the scorpene will be well suited for this or the type 209 as its smaller.

what are the tenders for the p75i? the poster above may help you. i just clarification as there too many people saying to may things. im not that well informed about the navy. for india i only know about some strategic weapons and air force only. not the navy or army.

i know japan pulled out of the p75i

i would think 12 scorpene's and 9 p75i's, these are good realistic numbers

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Good. Now what about the upgrade of 2 Type209s? They too were to get an upgrade. The harpoon have been cleared for sale and an final order is to be given. I hope we get an SUBTICS upgrade to its fire control systems.

@Blue Marlin

Sir Indian Navy doesn't have any other choice than going for this relatively costly upgrade. Buying Type209s is not feasible for 2 reasons.
1. That would be considered an step backwards after induction of Scorpenes and , as the project 75I progresses.
2.They won't come quick enough. Indian Navy is at present at a shortage of submarines.
3. Given we are buying one frigate at 1 billion dollars cost from Russia,this price seem relatively justifiable if we look that these will operate upto next 15 more years.