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Corruption jumps 400% in Pakistan in 3 years: Report

How many 'uncle' are there that you actually have in the military dealings? And what is the % of that uncle who form part of the 'responders' and the Nation's population actually?

Come on Qsaark, i know you can do better.
Enigma (it describes you better), actually we are now living in the age of information. People have access to cell phones, computers, internet and several other media outlets. News spread very fast and I sincerely believe in "where there's smoke, there's fire". Also the people of Pakistan are more enlightened and more mature and now a majority of them (not all though) can see what is happening around them. In sixty or so years, they have tested both, the civilians and the military forms of governments and experience is of course the biggest teacher.
 
Hey DUDE! The entire Army Welfare Projects (AWT) falls under the jurisdiction of the PA Directorate GHQ. If these are to be run under the Army patronage then whom you think should be in the executive body,.... indians?

What is said and you missed was that uniformed personnel dont sit and sell plots, civilians are paid for the job. and yes as the military runs it, it is and would be controlled by men in uniform.

great no going in circles here .... yes thats the point men in uniform shouldnt be controlling businesses and commercial activities. For one sec think if the civilians are defending the country! its not their job is it ? The point is profesionaly an Armys job is to defend country and thats it.... they shouldnt get involved in commercial activities as its not their business they get paid to secure the border and deal with defence and defence only. Involving in commercial activities will distract army , and it eventually leads to corruption they should be solely focused on defence of Pakistan.
 
Enigma (it describes you better)
Thnx for acknowlodgeing.

actually we are now living in the age of information. People have access to cell phones, computers, internet and several other media outlets. News spread very fast and I sincerely believe in "where there's smoke, there's fire". Also the people of Pakistan are more enlightened and more mature and now a majority of them (not all though) can see what is happening around them. In sixty or so years, they have tested both, the civilians and the military forms of governments and experience is of course the biggest teacher.

:rofl:
You have i min to let me know what hierarchy is followed within WAPDA, PTCL, Habib Bank, Bahria Developers, House Building Finance Corporation etc etc...a few big guns in Pakistan (you may chose only one).

Tell me about their 'internal' details, from where they procure land, how they process it, what they do maintain the standards, who sit in the executive bodies, how about they go about the decision making process, tell me about their business and financial dealings etc etc, let's how much your are 'informed'
 
Thnx for acknowlodgeing.



:rofl:
You have i min to let me know what hierarchy is followed within WAPDA, PTCL, Habib Bank, Bahria Developers, House Building Finance Corporation etc etc...a few big guns in Pakistan (you may chose only one).

Tell me about their 'internal' details, from where they procure land, how they process it, what they do maintain the standards, who sit in the executive bodies, how about they go about the decision making process, tell me about their business and financial dealings etc etc, let's how much your are 'informed'

Xeric here is some info for u read this might help u ! i have highlighted the army part, it was published this sunday u may understand how it works !!


A plea to the Lord Chief Justice By Ardeshir Cowasjee

Sunday, 14 Jun, 2009 | 08:34 AM PST We request Your Lordship to right the wrong, and come to the aid of these children of a lesser god who cannot stand up to the juggernaut of corruption and the ‘Milbus’ empire. — APP/File Photo ACCUSATIONS are often made against me and fellow commentators that we are pessimistic, that we do not give solutions.

Well, it is impossible to exude optimism with the national scenario fraught with multiple potential dangers, with the millions of lives that have been wrecked, and the hundreds being killed each day that passes. There is nothing we perceive, nothing we can foresee, that can cheer us up — a black hole yawns ahead. As for solutions, one that comes to mind is demolish all we have and start anew.

President Barack Obama in his inaugural address aimed well: 'To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history'.

Karachi is no stranger to corruption and deceit — as these days it is no stranger to death, with the daily gunning down of political opponents. Less dangerous is the land-grabbing that continues, without let-up, which is having a disastrous effect on the city and endangering its future.

Through the columns of this newspaper, I am yet again making an appeal to the good Chief Justice of Pakistan, Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry, to come to the aid of an endangered playground and the children of a deprived area of Karachi. It seems he is the only one who can now help. The citizens of Karachi are not requesting Your Lordship to adjudicate on the merits of the case. Our petition to you is that you adjudicate on the manner in which the case was dismissed arbitrarily and ex-parte.

Webb Ground (Plot 148) in Tunisia Lines was a 4.98-acre playground that catered to the children of the low-income residents of this area. Ownership rests with the City District Government Karachi (CDGK) through Lines Area Re-Development Project (LARP)

(Sir Montague de Pomeroy Webb, after whom the playground is named, was a contemporary of my grandfather Fakirjee Cowasjee and was above all a gentleman and a benefactor of those in want. He was a governor of the Grammar School, he founded the KESC and the Daily Gazette — the list is long.)

The brief facts are as follows: the army, realising the value of this large plot in the city centre, put the ownership claim into dispute and in December 2002 forcibly occupied the plot, depriving the low-income area residents of their playground. The Ministry of Defence then leased out the plot to the Army Welfare Trust (AWT), which in 2006 further sub-leased it to Makro-Habib to establish a commercial ‘hyper-store’.
In August 2007, Mr Mehfooz-un-Nabi Khan, an area resident and an ex-councillor of the KMC, filed CP D-1740/2007 in the High Court of Sindh against Makro-Habib, AWT, CDGK, LARP & Ors. On 22-08-07 the case was heard and an ad-interim stay against further construction was given. However, the honourable judges, Sarmad Usmany and Ali Sain Dino Metlo, realising that Mr Mehfooz-un-Nabi Khan is a person of limited financial resources and legal experience, also issued notice to the NGO Shehri-CBE to assist the court in the proper adjudication of the matter.

From the next hearing onwards, Shehri attended each hearing and submitted five written statements together with various maps and documents establishing the ownership of the plot with LARP and its status as a playground. Shehri was present at the Nazir’s inspection, and submitted objections to his report.

When the owners of Makro-Habib continued construction in violation of the status-quo order, Shehri took photographs, at considerable risk to its members, to bring the violations to the court’s notice. The documents and photos are part of the case record. On 26-09-07, contempt application CMA 7498/07 was listed for hearing.

Through an order of 19-09-07, the court itself confirmed the status of Shehri as a co-petitioner. Twelve hearings were held from 04-09-2007 through 03-11-2007, up to 24-01-08.

From 24-01-08 no hearing of the case was held. It was discharged before it could come up for hearing, as it was always listed low on the serial list. After a passage of almost eight months, without the case being heard during the intervening period, it was listed for hearing on 19-08-08 without giving notice to the petitioners. The judges gave an ex-parte order dismissing the petition. This was highly unusual as Civil Miscellaneous Applications for contempt and a stay order (CMA 6375/07 & 7498/07) filed by the petitioner were already listed for hearing. The judges acted in undue haste.

This would seem to be unfair play and undue favour to the legal team of Makro-Habib headed by lead counsel Justice (retd) Mushtaq Memon. Since both petitioners, Mr Mehfooz-un-Nabi and Shehri, were appearing without the benefit of legal counsel, they were not aware of the case being fixed for hearing as only advocates and counsels are sent daily court lists. Taking advantage of their absence through no fault of theirs, the legal team of Makro-Habib managed to extract an ex-parte order.

Shehri was never a party to the case. It was the court itself that had decided that Shehri should be made a co-petitioner, as it would be able to assist the court in the proper adjudication of the controversy. So, should the court not have issued notices on 19-08-08 to both the petitioners? They were not aware of the listing of the case after a passage of eight months as both were appearing without the benefit of counsel.

The various written statements, objections, and stay and contempt applications were listed for hearing and should have been heard with prior notice.

As Shehri was present at each hearing prior to the last hearing, should the judges not have sent notice to Shehri before dismissing the case, since it was the court itself that had called in Shehri in the first place, and it was Shehri that had provided all the evidence against Makro-Habib and AWT? Shehri was not even made aware of the case being dismissed ex-parte. It was only after the passage of a few months that it learnt of what had transpired.

In light of the above, and after perusal of the order sheet, Your Lordship will realise that justice has not been served, and that it was deliberately manipulated to suppress the facts and favour the rich and mighty at the expense of the poor and illiterate slum dwellers of the Lines Area, rightly referred to as children of a lesser god.

We request Your Lordship to right the wrong, and come to the aid of these children of a lesser god who cannot stand up to the juggernaut of corruption and the ‘Milbus’ empire.
 
You have i min to let me know what hierarchy is followed within WAPDA, PTCL, Habib Bank, Bahria Developers, House Building Finance Corporation etc etc...a few big guns in Pakistan (you may chose only one).

Would you have a problm with the CEO's of the above mentioned companies replacing the generals in army HQ?

If the generals can take postions in civilian companies then its only fair that that it works the other around way also.
 
great no going in circles here .... yes thats the point men in uniform shouldnt be controlling businesses and commercial activities.
You are dumb then i actually thought.

"Controlling", how exactly do you define this 'control'. If we go by your sense, you tomorrow might also suggest that the military shouldn't also be 'controlling' its ration as it it also constitutes 'non-border-defending-activity', then you might also suggest that the the military should also not 'control' its accounts as it might also hinder its defence capacity-i am referring to the CMA (Controler of Military Accounts here). What about the MES (military engg services) its also 'controlled' DIRECTLY by the SERVING Army Officers, so shouldnt we even let go it MES rather everything and just take the pay and sit at borders.

You think the organizers, constitution and system planners were dumb and you are smarter.

For one sec think if the civilians are defending the country!
Why should they? Oh yes by the way the defence minister is a CIVILIAN, if you missed that, and the men that fall under his domain are uniformed. It is exactly the same thing that happens when the military 'runs' the commercial business, the patrons are in uniform but the business is run by civilians, just civilians, with a sprinkle of uniformed men whose presence is symbolic actually.

In short what i am trying to hammer in your head is that the military personnel DOES NOT run the business you are accusing them of. Its like if tomorrow Shell Pakistan is headed by retired IG Police then you might also accuse the entire police department of 'running' and 'controlling' Shell Pakistan.

The point is profesionaly an Armys job is to defend country and thats it....

And yes they are doing it better than ever. Since ever!
Tell me when Askari bank would stop the military from fighting india or talibans.

Involving in commercial activities will distract army , and it eventually leads to corruption they should be solely focused on defence of Pakistan.

You are plain wrong here.

NO i repeat NO army personnel is directly involved in teh commercial stuff, majority even dosnt know what all departments are there that the military has to its name. There is a very clear de-link between the two. Yes i would but you concern if i being in the military was sitting at a petrol pump as its manager!
 
Would you have a problm with the CEO's of the above mentioned companies replacing the generals in army HQ?

If the generals can take postions in civilian companies then its only fair that that it works the other around way also.

What exactly are to trying to say?

For you kind info all the commercial stuff that you accuse military of running' has it own dedicated CIVILIAN CEOs and equivalents!

The military hand is there at the top ofcourse to maintain the 'ownership' and patronage effect.

You talk as if these generals have 'snatched' the CEO-ship of these companies!
 
Read this:
If you people still have doubts left, have an appointment with a (boi-chemical ) doc.

what is the fuss all about MilInc by A.Siddiqui....

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 14, 2001

FORCES in BUSINESS
TIMOTHY HU JDW Special Correspondent - Jakarta

Making ends meet with dwindling defence budgets is one of the most difficult challenges military establishments across the world have had to struggle with in the post-Cold War era. For a growing number of armed forces, however, mostly in the developing and post-Communist world, their governments have been unable to provide adequate financial support and they have had to find their own means of raising money. Timothy Hu reports

Going into business has been a highly lucrative way of filling empty coffers and soldiers from Asia to Central and Latin America have become accomplished entrepreneurs. Armies in China, Ecuador, Honduras, Indonesia, Pakistan, Peru and Vietnam have established major commercial operations in a diverse range of industries that provide a major and recurrent source of income. They have been joined in the past few years by cash-strapped counterparts from the former Soviet Union, particularly Russia and Ukraine.

Military commercialism covers activities that are primarily oriented to making profits as well as self-supporting economic operations that many armies engage in such as farming and limited industrial production to meet logistical needs. Typical military business ventures include trading, financial services and the supply of telecommunications and transportation services.

Many of these money-making armed forces, however, have sought to downplay the extent of their commercial operations. This is due to a widespread unease in both civilian and military circles that soldiers should not be involved in business as this could cripple their ability to perform their military duties and lead to an expansion of their influence in domestic affairs.

This lack of transparency has hidden the growth of the military business complex, which today is a multi-billion-dollar undertaking. Military-owned corporations have quietly become major powerhouses in many economies. An international conference on Soldiers In Business, held in Jakarta in October last year by the Bonn International Centre for Conversion, found that enterprises belonging to armed forces in China, Central and Latin America, Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan and elsewhere have joined the ranks of their countries' leading corporate titans.

Despite diverse local conditions, the reasons why and how these armies have become involved in commerce are strikingly familiar. Armies generally have plunged into business because their governments cannot afford to meet their immediate and longer-term financial needs and they have had to rely on themselves to make up for these budgetary shortfalls.

For most armies, the bulk of their earnings appear to go to supporting welfare and personnel costs and only a small proportion is used to directly fund military operations or arms procurement. Some armies depend heavily on commercial earnings to supplement meagre official funds and without this extra-budgetary income they would virtually cease to be operational. Indonesian military officials say they rely on commercial earnings to cover as much as 75% of their financial needs.

The original rationale for many armies to become involved in business was to support the welfare of serving and retired military personnel and their dependants. A large proportion of military commercial operations in Honduras, Indonesia and Pakistan are ostensibly operated by military-owned pension funds, although the armed forces in these and other countries have subsequently moved in to take over direct control of lucrative lines of business.

Armies that have developed thriving commercial interests, such as those in Ecuador, Thailand, Turkey and Vietnam, have depended on the support of powerfully political parent military establishments that are able to assist them in gaining privileges and protecting them from outside civilian efforts to curb their activities. Civilian authorities are often reluctant or unable to interfere because they lack the political clout or do not want to risk a military backlash.

Professional standards in entrepreneurial armies tend to be low because budgets are insufficient to provide for adequate levels of training, attracting and retaining high-quality personnel and supporting the acquisition of weapons. They also often have large numbers of surplus uniformed manpower that are not needed to support military preparedness and these soldiers can be used for economic activities. The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) employs hundreds of thousands of under-utilised troops to build roads or lay telecommunications networks.

In a few cases, however, well trained and professional armed forces are involved in business for political or other reasons, such as to support the welfare of retired personnel and family dependants or to control sensitive industries for national security considerations.

The Turkish Armed Forces have extensive holdings in the country's defence manufacturing, automotive, cement, food and chemical industries.

Many armies have turned to commerce as external threats to their country's security have subsided and they have been able to become more relaxed in their defence preparedness.

The Vietnamese military started to focus on making money at the end of the 1980s as external security threats dwindled and it pulled out of a costly occupation of neighbouring Cambodia. The military in Pakistan, by contrast, has had to balance its commercial interests with the constant threat of war with India and has done so by appointing retired military personnel to run its enterprises.

Many armies involved in business have traditionally supported themselves through sideline agricultural and industrial activities. The PLA has been involved in subsistence agricultural and light industrial manufacturing operations ever since its establishment in the late 1920s and it has regarded economic self-sufficiency as a core pillar of its institutional culture. This made the switch from agricultural self-support to market capitalism an easy transition for Chinese military chiefs.

Although the nature and extent of military commercial practices vary widely, a number of common features are apparent in how armed forces make money and how they are impacted by commercialism.

One of the most obvious consequences of military commercialism is corruption and other economic-related vices, which have become rife in many armies. In Russia, selling military assets such as property, arms and transport equipment is rampant. The Chinese government ordered its soldiers out of business in 1998 following the uncovering of pervasive smuggling by military units.

While individuals and occasionally military units have been responsible for much of this crime, some armies have also been found to be systemically involved in illegal activities, such as logging drug trafficking. The Cambodian Army has been reported to be illegally smuggling timber abroad without handing the proceeds to the government.

Many entrepreneurial armies are able to operate with wide-ranging autonomy as they are not usually subject to the scrutiny of civilian law-enforcement authorities. Military authorities are responsible for checking the activities of their enterprises, including the auditing of their books, and this task is normally given to the logistics apparatus. Logistics chiefs, however, often lack the expertise or resources to do this effectively and this has allowed military units and personnel independence in their money-making operations with minimal supervision.

Military-owned enterprises also depend heavily on the exploitation of military resources, privileges and manpower for profit. This is why armies are often involved in the same industries, such as telecommunications, broadcasting, transportation and construction, where they are able to make use of valuable military assets, such as equipment, funds and control of radio bandwidths, often without cost.

In the past few years, the Russian military has sought to exploit its substantial logistics base for profit. Support facilities such as repair outfits, construction units, healthcare facilities and research and development institutes have rushed to offer their services for sale. The Russian Defence Ministry has also been actively offering its vast and increasingly rundown arsenal for sale through affiliated arms export companies such as Promexport. The export of surplus military hardware is estimated to have accounted for around 38% of total annual extra-budgetary revenue earned by the Russian military at the end of the 1990s. Promexport, for example, had an income of $156 million in 1999.

The Chinese military has also been a major arms trader, earning huge sums for the export of surplus tanks, fighter aircraft and even ballistic missiles. The PLA's most lucrative deal was in 1987 when it sold CSS-2 Intermediate-Range Ballistic Missiles to Saudi Arabia, earning more than an estimated $2 billion. These exports have dropped substantially in the past few years and PLA arms trading outfits such as Poly Technologies have become more involved in importing arms.

Military units have also been keen to get involved in lucrative industries such as banking, real-estate development, broadcasting and import-export trade. A proliferation of armies, including those in Guatemala, Honduras, Pakistan and Thailand operate their own banks, which often lend to military-backed enterprises. The Honduran military's primary commercial vehicle also has stakes in financial outfits that provide insurance, credit card and stock market trading.

Another feature of military businesses is that armies are often the dominant entrepreneurs among the different service branches and they are involved in an extensive range of operations. Air forces and navies tend to have much smaller and more specialised commercial interests, such as the running of airlines or shipping companies. The Chinese, Pakistani and Peruvian air forces each operate their own airlines and their navies own commercial transport fleets using naval vessels.

By contrast, armies in the developed world have been less entrepreneurial. This is primarily because they are politically acquiescent, receive adequate levels of funding, are highly professional and do not have any traditions of commercial entrepreneurship. Nonetheless, in the aftermath of the Cold War, some of these armies have found themselves being pushed by their governments to become more commercially minded and more cost-effective.

In the UK and the USA, military-owned units belonging to the logistics and support bases have become increasingly profit-oriented since the early 1990s in order to justify their continued existence in an era of force restructuring and downsizing.

The US Army Corps of Engineers, which belongs to the US Department of Defense, is a sprawling public works bureaucracy that has built more than $100 billion of locks, dams and other waterworks projects. It has aggressively expanded its involvement in the civilian economy and this is its main source of financial income.

Other parts of the US military have also been outsourcing a growing proportion of their non-core military support functions to the commercial sector, including housing, information technology services and financial management.

In Africa, a different form of military commerce has developed with the rise of private armies. Governments such as the Democratic Republic of Congo and Liberia use private armies, often made up foreign mercenaries, to fight on their behalf in internal civil wars because they cannot afford or are unable to maintain their own military establishments.

Although the privatisation of military operations differs significantly from military commercialism, these trends show that the traditional separation between military and economic power has been steadily eroded in the post-Cold War era and that they have become closely intertwined in an era in which market forces are dominant.

As the ranks of armed forces engaging in business continue to expand, the lessons of the Chinese military's withdrawal may indicate that there are limits to this commercialism. As the pioneer of the entrepreneurial army, the PLA eventually found that the economic benefits were outweighed by the disadvantages of corruption and other vices that undermined professionalism and discipline. This may mean that military commercialism may be a short-term economic expediency rather than a long-term solution to the budgetary woes of many armies.

Chinese withdrawal

From the early 1980s to the end of the 1990s, the Chinese army operated the largest and most profitable military business complex in the world. The PLA invested enormous effort and resources to build a vast but loosely-connected commercial empire stretching into virtually every corner of the economy and abroad.

The PLA went into business to make up for severe financial shortfalls after defence spending was slashed at the beginning of the 1980s in favour of economic development. But its rapid expansion also sowed the seeds of its demise. Lax supervision of the activities of military enterprises allowed corruption, smuggling, profiteering and other vices to flourish. These problems became so rampant that the political reliability of the military and the health of the Chinese economy began to be undermined.

In the Chinese military business complex's aspirations of becoming a domestic and international commercial powerhouse, a key goal was the development of a stable of conglomerates that controlled many of the largest and most profitable PLA commercial entities. They were given special treatment to boost their growth, including numerous financial and administrative privileges.

It is estimated that there may have been as many as 20,000 army-owned enterprises at its peak in the beginning of the 1990s, although this has steadily decreased since then. Most of these entities were small outfits and there was only a core of around 500 to 1,000 large enterprises and conglomerates.

The military business complex's power and influence was not dependent, however, on the total number of enterprises under its control. An overwhelming proportion of the enterprises that were established during the freewheeling years of the late 1980s and early 1990s were small unprofitable ventures. Most military units lacked access to credit and there were only limited inflows of domestic and foreign investment.

Even before its entry into business in the mid-1980s, the PLA was already economically self-sufficient. The logistics system had its own hospitals, transportation and telecommunications systems, factories and virtually any other operations that were required to support the running of a huge military machine. By allowing large parts of this logistics apparatus to be converted to civilian use or exploited for commercial purposes, PLA units and enterprises were able to quickly establish themselves as a major presence in many parts of the economy, especially transportation, telecommunications and construction.

Other PLA companies were lured into new fast-growing and lucrative but also risky industries, such as real estate and speculative financial activities like futures and commodities trading. Although they had little experience in these areas, they used numerous privileges that they enjoyed as military units to gain advantages over their civilian competitors. These perks included tax breaks, fast-track bureaucratic approval and access to state-subsidised materials.

Although business profits were a crucial source of supplemental income for the PLA, their importance in covering budgetary shortfalls gradually declined from the early 1990s as the government boosted defence spending by more than 10% annually. Profits may have accounted for as much as 10% of the PLA's official defence budget at its peak in the early 1990s, although this had steadily dwindled since the mid-1990s.

At a national anti-smuggling seminar held by the PLA high command in July 1998, Chinese President and Commander-in-Chief Jiang Zemin instructed the military, paramilitary and law-enforcement organs to clean up and divest themselves from commercial activities. He told the assembled military brass that "to properly develop the army in an all-round manner, the central authorities decided that the army and the armed police should earnestly screen and rectify various commercial companies operated by their subordinate units and shall not carry out commercial activities in the future".

Despite these tough words, the civilian leadership was sceptical whether the top brass could be relied on to rigorously enforce the divestiture. Past rectification campaigns had failed to tackle corruption, smuggling and other problems. In an embarrassing political slight to the military, civilian leaders and party and government institutions were put in charge of implementing the separation process and the military was sidelined to a supporting role.

The PLA continues to retain substantial economic interests even after its separation from commercial activities. The divestiture may have reduced the size of the military business complex by upwards of 75% in asset terms, but there are still several thousand small and medium-sized military-affiliated business entities in operation. However, the stable of around 50 prominent military-owned corporations has had its formal ownership ties with the PLA severed.

Remaining enterprises are primarily concentrated in the agricultural, industrial and welfare-support sectors, which are the same areas that the PLA was engaged in before the 1985 decision to go into business.

The structure of the post-divestiture PLA economic apparatus comprises several elements:

1 The PLA's farming system is being expanded to allow military units to partially compensate for the loss of commercial income through sideline production;

2 The PLA has kept control of several hundred industrial enterprises, maintenance and repair factories and research facilities to provide logistical support for the rest of the military establishment. These factories produce uniforms, bedding, food and other quartermaster supplies;

3 Several thousand small-sized family-run workshops, shops and other entities have been allowed to retain their ties with the PLA to provide work and welfare support for family dependants and demobilised troops. These enterprises are generally located on or close to military bases;

4 Military units retained a significant proportion of hotels and guesthouses, although many were required to close their doors to commercial business and revert to hostels and guesthouses for state, party and military personnel;

5 The PLA has been permitted to retain a small number of corporations that are considered important for national security or for the public interest. This includes telecommunications and aviation, although it was forced to hand over a fledging mobile telephone network to the civilian authorities at the end of last year. The air force's China United Airlines has been allowed to continue to operate its key routes in China, which are usually to cities in impoverished outlying provinces.

South East Asian armies

Armies across Southeast Asia have been engaged in business for many decades and they have used their powerful political influence to carve out lucrative niches in their national economies.

The Indonesian armed forces (TNI), have been running commercial operations since the late 1950s and their tentacles have extended in many directions. They have invested in luxury hotel joint ventures with foreign firms, airlines and aviation services, forestry, shipping, insurance, property investment, petrochemical processing, and film production.

TNI has a number of non-profit foundations known as Yayasan that provide welfare and educational support for serving and retired military personnel and these organisations own or control an extensive collection of companies. For example, the Yayasan that belonged jointly to TNI headquarters and the government's defence department was ranked among Indonesia's 200 largest conglomerates in the early 1990s.

Each of the service arms has at least one or more Yayasan that usually control dozens of enterprises and companies. The army's commercial operations come under Yayasan Kartika Eka that has its own airlines, banks, trading outfits, plantations, agricultural and forestry production facilities, and construction companies. The air force owns Yayasan Adi Upaya, which runs an airline and air service companies, a bank and a construction company.

Yayasan Bhumyamca is the navy's primary foundation and owns companies engaged in shipping and real estate. At lower levels of the chain of command, especially in outlying regions, military units operate co-operatives that primarily provide welfare support for military personnel and their dependants. Total business assets of the Indonesian armed forces in 1998 were estimated to be worth at least $8 billion.

Following the ousting of President Soeharto and his successor BJ Habibe at the end of the 1990s, efforts were made by the newly-elected government of Abdurrahman Wahid to curb the TNI's pervasive influence in the country's political, social and economic life, including its commercial activities. But the move to rein in the military's business operations proved to be shortlived as the government could not make up for any shortfalls in commercial earnings. Military officials have claimed that the official defence budget only covers 25% to 35% of the military's financial needs and the rest of the budgetary requirements have to be met from off-budget sources.

Thailand's armed forces have been a major player in the country's economy since the 1940s, controlling some of the biggest and best-known corporations. These include the Thai Military Bank, a publicly-listed medium-sized financial institution that is managed by a mixed staff of senior military officers and civilian bank executives, two TV channels and more than 200 radio stations. Proceeds from the radio stations go back into the military's coffers and are not scrutinised by the government.

The air force also controlled the national air carrier, Thai Airways, until the early 1990s. In the wake of the Asian financial crisis in 1998, Thai military chiefs and civilian leaders pledged to reduce the armed forces' involvement in business and make military-controlled companies more financially transparent. The government has asked the military to relinquish control of most of their broadcasting interests and the Thai defence ministry has promised to sell more of its stake in Thai Military Bank to foreign investors. However, military chiefs have made similar promises previously that were subsequently not honoured.

A relative newcomer to military commercialism is the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN), which was given formal permission to go into business in 1990, although it had been heavily involved in road building and providing other assistance for the building of the civilian economy before then. By 1998, the PAVN was reported to have been operating around 200 companies and was involved in more than 50 joint ventures with foreign companies. Operations included banking, air charter, commercial fishing and garment manufacturing.

The PAVN has several major corporations. The largest is Truong Son Construction General Corporation, which built the famous Ho Chi Minh Trail, and is one of the country's leading infrastructure construction outfits. Flight Service Corp. has close ties with the Vietnamese Air Force and provides air transport services for tourism and helicopter shuttle services for oil and gas exploration. Tay Nguyen Corporation primarily focuses on rubber, coffee and timber production in the country's central highlands and Thanh An Construction and Assembly Corporation is engaged in construction, mineral exploration and coal mining.

The PAVN also operates 13 'special economic defence zones' in border zones facing China, Laos and Cambodia. Business turnover from these military enterprises was estimated to have totalled around $600 million in 1998. Around 20% of PAVN personnel, or 100,000 troops, were estimated to be involved in business operations by the late 1990s.

Central and Latin American armies

In Central and Latin America, the involvement of the armed forces in business is part of the legacy of military rule in many of the countries in the region. Military officers have played prominent roles in the management of national economies of many South American regimes. A key reason for their intervention has been to deal with acute economic crises caused by serious domestic instability.

The armed forces in Ecuador and Honduras are among the most entrepreneurial in this part of the world. Those in the former are reported to be the country's largest business owner, with major stakes in the country's steel, mining, copper, munitions, agricultural, electronics, aviation, shipping, port management and footwear industries.

Similarly, the armed forces in Honduras and its pension fund have capitalised on their political clout to build up a substantial business complex, which is the largest in Latin America. According to Kevin Casas-Zamora, a specialist in Latin American military business activities, the Instituto De Prevision Militar, which is the Honduran military's commercial arm, had assets of around $400 million in 1998 and employed more than 15,000 workers in scores of ventures. This included a bank, an insurance firm, agricultural enterprises, radio and publishing companies, security outfits, a cement factory and real-estate construction companies. Other military companies are involved in running telecommunications companies and the country's immigration bureaucracy.

Armies in El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua and also operate smaller military business operations through pension funds. The Nicaraguan armed forces' pension fund has interests in banking, stock trading, infrastructure construction and healthcare and its assets are estimated to be worth $10 million to $20 million. As with their counterparts elsewhere in the world, these military-affiliated enterprises are non-transparent and outside the supervision of civilian authorities.

Pakistan's armed forces

Pakistan's armed forces wield enormous political clout and have taken over control of the country through coup d'états on three occasions since its independence in 1948. The armed forces have also developed a sizeable commercial apparatus that dates back to the 1950s.

All the service branches, as well as the defence ministry, operate their own businesses that are influential players in the domestic economy. These business interests are controlled by money-making foundations that are headed by either serving or retired officers from each of the three armed services.

The defence ministry owns the Fauji Foundation, which is the largest and oldest of the military-controlled foundations. It was established during British colonial rule and one of its primary functions is to ensure the welfare of retired military personnel and provide employment for demobilised soldiers. It is officially a charitable trust that enjoys privileged tax breaks and had nearly 30 industrial enterprises in the late 1990s that were involved in sugar production, food crop cultivation and processing, oil refining, gas distribution, cement production, fertiliser manufacturing and electric power generation. Its declared net assets in 1996 totalled Rs8 billion ($135 million) and its operations earned Rs1.4 billion in profits that helped to finance a sizeable education and welfare apparatus that included 12 hospitals and nine training centres.

The army's foundation is the Army Welfare Trust (AWT), which was established in the late 1970s and is involved in an extensive range of businesses that include farming, rice, sugar and fish processing and cultivation, cement production, pharmaceuticals, travel agencies, banking, commercial real-estate development, insurance, aviation and housing construction.

The AWT's Askari Commercial Bank is regarded as one of the best-run banks in Pakistan and a number of AWT-operated enterprises are listed on the country's stock exchanges. The army's general headquarters closely oversees the AWT and the service chief is the head of the foundation's governing board.

The army's National Logistics Cell is also very involved in commercial haulage operations, especially in the country's frontier regions and is reported to have been responsible for supplying Afghan rebel forces during their war against the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

The air force operates the Shaheen Foundation that has specialised in aviation-related activities, including the running of the country's second largest airline, Shaheen Air International (SAI), and also air transportation and maintenance services. In addition, the foundation has insurance, commercial real estate, television and radio broadcasting and computer technology services. The foundation nearly collapsed in 1998 after an investment in a road toll project went wrong and SAI also stopped operating following a failed joint venture.

The Pakistani Navy has more modest commercial operations compared to the other service branches, which is under the umbrella of the Bahria Foundation. This foundation owns businesses in the shipping, fishing, travel, real-estate development, farming, port management and paint production sectors.

The military has also been occasionally brought in to run key state corporations that have suffered under civilian mismanagement. In 1998, for example, the army was given responsibility for running the country's Water and Power Development Authority, which was on the verge of bankruptcy.

Most of the declared earnings of the foundations and other military-controlled businesses appear to go largely to supporting welfare programmes and for business reinvestment. The armed forces apparently do not receive any sizeable share of the profits from these commercial operations and they have to rely on the government for their financial needs. This has not been a pressing concern, however, as the military has enjoyed priority access to the allocation of fiscal resources because of their powerful political influence in the country's decision-making elite and the enduring security threat posed from India.

Although the Pakistani military has earned a positive reputation as a well-run and relatively clean organisation in contrast to the civilian apparatus that is widely perceived as corrupt and inefficient, this image has been tarnished by a number of corruption scandals involving serving and retired military officials who were responsible for the management of these foundations.
 
i already had much of this Army cum Business Bullshyt! so i'll not waste any more time in replying, would just quote a few replies which if 'understood' would 'clear' all the doubts and remove the misunderstandings. If still some brains cant comprehend what its actually about, then no need to panic, you have a doc among you:)

Those businesses are run by employing "Retired" officers and they are for the welfare of mostly retired personnels and their families. Our defence budget is very small and the military cannot afford to give facilities like medical care to retired personnels without the involvement of organizations like Fauji foundation.

Many army officers from fighting arms do not have technical education which will help them after retirement but they have administrative skills and after some training they work in administrative fields.

Those who have engineering backgrounds are rehired into organizations like FWO(civil works) and some strategic organizations.These organizations use their experience. Civilians are also there and are in majority.

The companies run under Askari group and Fauji group do not employ serving officers so i do not see a problem. Moreover, they contribute to the GDP and employ the local civil population. Many of them are publicly listed under our stock exchanges so the local population also owns shares in these companies.

------

..........Now as for the army---it has a seperate wing managed and operated by retd officers and retd soldiers---their business ventures are run to benefit the retd millitary people---it is basically their 401K retirement plan. It has nothing to do to stop the civilian side to run and operate similiar business ventures. Civilian and private business owners may chose to do whatever they want to......
 
Name calling alert!!!!!!!! Beware folks, Enigma has drawn out his most sophisticated weapon and 'your mother had already warned you about him'.
What would you call this respectable Qsaark!
(the thread got closed and you missed the guts to keep you own post un-deleted)
..........

:)
Well the tactics worked. Here comes the true Qsaark sirs!

Go take a glass of water bro. Dont get yourself a heart attack. Relax.

BTW, people here can easily make out who is insulting who, so chill.

and for your kind info i can assure you that your cheap mentality as quoted above doesnt at all fit me! and before you reply me, think of your poor heart dear, Pakistan need docs like you:tup: i dont want to be the one being accused for losing such a gem, no offense, seriously! Pop a can!
 
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If still some brains cant comprehend what its actually about, then no need to panic, you have a doc among you:)
Name calling alert!!!!!! 'I am the one your mother WARNED you about'. Yeh, Mama said 'beta badtameezon key moonh mat lagna'.

And since you have posted my message which I had deleted, you have shown your cheap mentality. I wrote that because I was angry, but soon after posting it, I realized I was wrong. I should not have generalized and I deleted. You kept it to 'expose' me. So you have exposed my anger, but at the same time you have also exposed your cheapness.
 
And what's the fuss about 'name calling' you are doc so what's wrong with it? Now i have a label of MP attached to me i dont tell admins here that you are calling me a soldier!:azn:
 
Name calling alert!!!!!! 'I am the one your mother WARNED you about'. Yeh, Mama said 'beta badtameezon key moonh mat lagna'.

And since you have posted my message which I had deleted, you have shown your cheap mentality. I wrote that because I was angry, but soon after posting it, I realized I was wrong. I should not have generalized and I deleted. You kept it to 'expose' me. So you have exposed my anger, but at the same time you have also exposed your cheapness.

Now it has become 'cheap'. When the great doc do it, its anger that too refutable anger, but when others do the same they become cheap!

And you call this "Yeh, Mama said 'beta badtameezon key moonh mat lagna'." being civil!!

i didnt save it but i was replying your rant when the thread got closed and it was still laying in one of my tab as i usually hibernate my computer, and yes i was very willing to 'expose' you anger, any problems with that!

BTW, this is my last reply to you ever!
TC, doc!
 
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Now it has become 'cheap'. When the great do it, its anger that you refutable anger, but when others do the same they become cheap!
I got angry, I wrote and posted, but than I realized I was wrong in generalizing and I deleted my post. You got angry, you took my 'deleted' reply and posted. The difference between you and me is, I finally overcame my anger and realized my mistake, and you got overwhelmed by your anger and went on 'exposing' me.

i didnt save it but i was replying your rant when the thread got closed and it was still laying in one of my tab as i usually hibernate my computer, and yes i was very willing to 'expose' you anger, any problems with that!
You don’t have to explain what happened; the arrow has left the bow. I will face what is lying ahead.
 
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