'Confucius on talks': A few words about the thought of Confucius

[AViet]

Tran Trong Kim provided a very detailed analysis of many different Confucious schools of thought since Spring Autumn era till Qing dynasty and their impact on Vietnamese society in his great work "Nho giáo".

 

[Viva_Viet]

Part 2

Some Confucius thought that Vnese r still using today :

1. Tiên học lễ, hậu học văn
先學禮，後學文
xiān xué lǐ , hòu xué wén

You can see those words in most of VN schools, it means u need to learn how to behave yourself, how to respect the people before learning the knowledge.

Why ? Confucius believed that when people learn more, then they will know more tricks, they will know how to make more deadly weapons to kill the others and that will bring the destruction to the world.

So, before teaching peoples the knowledge, the teacher must teach them how to to behave themself, how to respect the people first. If they failed to learn this things, then dont teach them the knowledge cos they will become dangerous guys and try to destroy the society instead.

2.
人之初，性本善

“Nhân chi sơ, tính bản thiện”

Most of people are Good guys since they were born. They become bad guys mainly bcs they have to live in failed-uneducated society. If they r educated well enough, then those bad guys can become good/useful guys again.

So,right education is the most important thing to keep the society civilized, healthy,prosperous and developed .

03.

首孝弟，次見聞

知某數，識某文

Thủ hiếu đễ, thứ kiến văn

Tri mỗ số, thức mỗ văn.

We must teach our kids to learn how to love your families, your parents, your brothers, your relatives first before learning the knowledge.

The parents must keep themselves to be good people, must not violate the society laws, must respect each other ( husband respect and love his wife and vice versa) so the kids can follow and learn, and become good kids,too.

04. 忠君愛國. trung quân, ái quốc

Loyal to good leaders/kings and love your countries.

君 (quân) is Good guy (君子) also mean King ( all kings consider themselves r good guys) During feudal period, the Kings used those words to make people loyal to them.

During this time, VN use those words as : "Loyal to the nation (VN)"

 

[Song Hong]

论语：里仁篇
君子欲讷于言而敏于行。

"Good man" should talk less but just do things

论语·学而
巧言令色，鲜矣仁

Most people who are good in talking are bad guys

This shape the East Asian culture to talk less and do more. In the view of Confucius, the white man and Indians emphasis of talking are " small people 小人" （not good guy）culture.

Indeed we see many managers from MBA talk a lot and do nothing, but ask experts to work for them. They ruin a lot of companies.

Part 2

Some Confucius thought that Vnese r still using today :

1. Tiên học lễ, hậu học văn
先學禮，後學文
xiān xué lǐ , hòu xué wén

You can see those words in most of VN schools, it means u need to learn how to behave yourself, how to respect the people before learning the knowledge.

Why ? Confucius believed that when people learn more, then they will know more tricks, they will know how to make more deadly weapons to kill the others and that will bring the destruction to the world.

So, before teaching peoples the knowledge, the teacher must teach them how to to behave themself, how to respect the people first. If they failed to learn this things, then dont teach them the knowledge cos they will become dangerous guys and try to destroy the society instead.

2.
人之初，性本善

“Nhân chi sơ, tính bản thiện”

Most of people are Good guys since they were born. They become bad guys mainly bcs they have to live in failed-uneducated society. If they r educated well enough, then those bad guys can become good/useful guys again.

So,right education is the most important thing to keep the society civilized, healthy,prosperous and developed .

03.

首孝弟，次見聞

知某數，識某文

Thủ hiếu đễ, thứ kiến văn

Tri mỗ số, thức mỗ văn.

We must teach our kids to learn how to love your families, your parents, your brothers, your relatives first before learning the knowledge.

The parents must keep themselves to be good people, must not violate the society laws, must respect each other ( husband respect and love his wife and vice versa) so the kids can follow and learn, and become good kids,too.

04. 忠君愛國. trung quân, ái quốc

君 (quân) is Good guy (君子) also mean King ( all kings consider themselves r good guys) During feudal period, the Kings used those words to make people loyal to them.

During this time, VN use those words as : "Loyal to the nation (VN)"

 

[Viva_Viet]

论语：里仁篇
君子欲讷于言而敏于行。

"Good man" should talk less but just do things

论语·学而
巧言令色，鲜矣仁

Most people who are good in talking are bad guys

This shape the East Asian culture to talk less and do more. In the view of Confucius, the white man and Indians emphasis of talking are " small people 小人" （not good guy）culture.

Indeed we see many managers from MBA talk a lot and do nothing, but ask experts to work for them. They ruin a lot of companies.

Just skip your "hate" to Indian bro. What Confucius said is correct. When people talk more, it almost mean that they r not good at Doing.

Just like Apple staff r very good at "talking, lecturing, inventing" etc..but none of them can make a real good Iphone, Foxconn make the phones for them and the main buyers r Cnese.

Thats why Apple cant leave CN or if they r forced to leave, then 80% they will move to VN, another "do more talk less" nation, so they still can find enough hard working-skillfull workers to continue making Iphone for them.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@H. Dawary this is a subject you may like.

 

[vi-va]

Just skip your "hate" to Indian bro. What Confucius said is correct. When people talk more, it almost mean that they r not good at Doing.

Just like Apple staff r very good at "talking, lecturing, inventing etc..but none of them can make a real good Iphone, Foxconn make the phones for them and the main buyers r Cnese.

Thats why Apple cant leave CN or if they r forced to leave, then 80% they will move to VN, another "do more talk less" nation, so they still can find enough hard working-skillfull workers to continue making Iphone for them.

I worked with many Indians. They talk all day long. The thing is they will talk the same in next week meeting.

Once a US company has too many Indians, it's doomed. Those parasite will bring cronyism from India to US, and destroy their host sooner or later.

Confucianism also has negative impact on social relationship. Cronyism is what Chairman Mao fought for, and President Xi is fighting for it as well.

How is Vietnam doing on anti-corruption?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Non-Chinese East Asian countries are being built up as counter weights against China by the US.

It is the same tactic used after WW2 against USSR in West Germany. East Germany was maligned as a poor, tyrannical, and broken state, while West Germany was a capitalistic success.

Nations like South Korea and Japan believe it is some inherent part of their culture only why they have gained so much success in the modern global economy, but it is not so. US has built them up for a nefarious purpose.

Today US and the West are doing the same with Vietnam. Be careful.

By taking away these countries' independence and their self-defense, they believe they are no longer a threat.

Compare this to how US deals with China and the Islamic world, which they view as genuine threats.

 

[Song Hong]

孟子
故天将降大任于斯人也，必先苦其心志，劳其筋骨，饿其体肤，空乏其身，行拂乱其所为，所以动心忍性，曾益其所不能。
When God want to make someone great, God will make this guy suffer great pains to strengthen his heart, will make him weary, will make him hungry, make him poor, make everything he does in a mess. Then after, this guy will gain strength and capabilities

孟子
穷则独善其身，达则兼济天下
When poor take care of yourself, when successful, take care of the world

孟子
君子有三乐.....仰不愧于天，俯不怍于人
Man must face God with clear conscience and face other man without guilt. This is the most happy thing for "good man"

Confucianism internalized suffering, and urge followers to use pain to transcend oneself. And when successful, help others.

Confucianism believe in God, and always urge one must face God without guilt.

This is different from some culture, such as Blacks, who externalized their difficulties, blaming others for everything under the sun.

Also it is impossible to rally anyone using Confucianism to persecute minorities.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I worked with many Indians. They talk all day long. The thing is they will talk the same in next week meeting.

Once a US company has too many Indians, it's doomed. Those parasite will bring cronyism from India to US, and destroy their host sooner or later.

Confucianism also has negative impact on social relationship. Cronyism is what Chairman Mao fought for, and President Xi is fighting for it as well.

How is Vietnam doing on anti-corruption?

Cronyism is everywhere, u can see when Trump become the President, then his son, daughter become "advisors" and all of them r making US fall into Covid pademic.

In VN, we try to eliminate the corruption by joining more FTA deal with many nations ( ASEAN, EU, TPP, CN-ASEAN FTA deal), we try to make the system more "transparency", but the core value "Confucius spirit" is the Red line that the West must not cross when making the deal wt VN ( accept transparency, respect Human rights etc but cant replace Confucius wt Christian-Catholic).

.

Confucianism believe in God, and always urge one must face God without guilt.

Confucianism believe in God, but urge people to focus on how to make them become better, not focus on how to make God "happy".

Vụ dân chi nghĩa, kính quỷ thần nhi viễn chi, khả vị tri hĩ"(務民之義，敬鬼神而遠之，可謂知矣。).

When doing good things for the people, respect the Devil and God, but stay far from them.

https://vi.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kính_nhi_viễn_chi

 

[Song Hong]

Confucianism is also a weapon for sinicization, and that is how minorities in China give up their culture willingly, Manchu, Mongolian, Muslims -- and soon in the future Tibetan and Uighur.

Confucianism does not ask you to give up religion or culture. But they require you to be a "good man". To be a good man, one must

- more or less internalized pain (dont blame others unnecessarily)
- talk less, do more
- serve the state
- dont do harm to people
- treat parent well
- study hard
- be faithful in sex and not be promiscuous
- dont be too superstitious
- .....etc

At first minorities such as Muslims may think -- hey this is a good idea as it benefit family, reduce crime for our community without asking us to change religion and way of life.

Soon, after they follow all the above teachings, they will be culturally Chinese. Then they assimilate and call themselves Chinese.

They will give up jihad and wahabbism.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Confucianism is also a weapon for sinicization, and that is how minorities in China give up their culture willingly, Manchu, Mongolian, Muslims -- and soon in the future Tibetan and Uighur.

Confucianism does not ask you to give up religion or culture. But they require you to be a "good man". To be a good man, one must

- more or less internalized pain (dont blame others unnecessarily)
- talk less, do more
- serve the state
- dont do harm to people
- treat parent well
- study hard
- be faithful in sex and not be promiscuous
- dont be too superstitious
- .....etc

At first minorities such as Muslims may think -- hey this is a good idea as it benefit family, reduce crime for our community without asking us to change religion and way of life.

Soon, after they follow all the above teachings, they will be culturally Chinese. Then they assimilate and call themselves Chinese.

They will give up jihad and wahabbism.

Old Cnese idiom :

If u want to keep your religious/beliefs , u must have enough food to eat first.

CN minorities like Mongol, Manchus, Quanrong failed to make enough food, thats why they also lost their beliefs and were Sinicized.

-------++-

衣 食 足 方 能 买 鬼 推磨 / Yīshí zú fāng néng mǎi guǐ tuī mó/ Có thực mới vực được đạo

Vui lòng giữ nguồn: http://newsky.edu.vn/thanh-ngu-tieng-trung-hay-2/

 

[Viva_Viet]

Lets continue the confucius thought VN still using today

05. Tiên trách kỷ, hậu trách nhân 先 责 己 、 后 责 人 xiān zé jǐ hòu zé rén

Blame yourself before blaming the others when bad things happened

Just like when Covid pademic happened in Wuhan, we didnt blame CN for spreading virus like US is doing, we blame ourselves for not buying/making enough PPE before the pademic.

And we tried to correct our mistake buy doing social distancing quickly while we also try to make as many PPE as possible.

finally, VN is the first one becoming Covid free nation wt Zero death.

 

[Indos]

孟子
故天将降大任于斯人也，必先苦其心志，劳其筋骨，饿其体肤，空乏其身，行拂乱其所为，所以动心忍性，曾益其所不能。
When God want to make someone great, God will make this guy suffer great pains to strengthen his heart, will make him weary, will make him hungry, make him poor, make everything he does in a mess. Then after, this guy will gain strength and capabilities

孟子
穷则独善其身，达则兼济天下
When poor take care of yourself, when successful, take care of the world

孟子
君子有三乐.....仰不愧于天，俯不怍于人
Man must face God with clear conscience and face other man without guilt. This is the most happy thing for "good man"

Confucianism internalized suffering, and urge followers to use pain to transcend oneself. And when successful, help others.

Confucianism believe in God, and always urge one must face God without guilt.

This is different from some culture, such as Blacks, who externalized their difficulties, blaming others for everything under the sun.

Also it is impossible to rally anyone using Confucianism to persecute minorities.

How many God that Confusius believe ? It will be interesting if he believes in Monoteism.

 

[KAL-EL]

Very fascinating thread gentleman

 

[Viva_Viet]

06. KỶ SỞ BẤT DỤC, VẬT THI Ư NHÂN
己所不欲勿施於人

If u dont like to do something, then dont force the others to the thing u dont wanna do.

------------
We dont wanna be bullied by big countries ( CN-US) ,so we also dont bully the smaller/weaker nations.

Someone may ask : "Why VN invaded and annexed Champa" when we say "VN dont bully the weaker". Well, Actually its the matter of live or dead. Champa ăttacked VN constantly even when VN was ruled by Han . They crossed the Red line, so we fought back. The rest is history.

07:「始吾於人也, 聽其言而信其行;今吾於人也, 聽其言而觀其行。」

( Khổng Tử nói : “ Ta đối với mọi người, nghe lời nói mà trung tín làm theo. Nay ta đối nới mọi người, nghe lời nói mà quan sát việc làm đó.

------
Only learn and do what the good men say & do. Dont just listen to what they talk, we also need to look at what they do.
_

Former Vietnam Republic President Nguyen Van Thieu copied that thought and rewrite like this :

"Don’t listen to the communists, but take a good look at what they have done"
7
But what he ( Thieu) did were too bad and terrible, people finally stop supporting him, S.VN Govt ended in 1975