Comparison between LCA Tejas and JF-17 Thunder in an A-to-A Scenario

[RIP Pak LAW]

Lets forget the scenario of the resources...we were talking about fighter to fighter..!
1. The IAF approach is to only induct Tejas when it is fully operational and it might be 2019-2020 as of now..from 2020 they will start making a serial production and from your point of view that is a true approach on the cost of pilot life of MIGs...!
2. PAF approach is to induct Thunder and make it potent with time, with the serious advantage of pilot skill on the aircraft after flying it for 100s of hours..Then you can see by 2020 PAF will nearly have 70-80 aircrafts with precious blocks that can be upgraded to latest blocks with the advantage of pilot training..!
Now look what is what and who is who and who is sane...!
3. Your all weather logic that you are proud of that Mark 1 will be equal to Block 3 is missing the key point that block 1 is rolled out in 2006 and Tejas is yet to see the light of sun in Operational mode..! If Tejas that has seen only Delays and Upgradation in his life is to be rolled out in 2020 with latest capabilities then so it the Thunder in 2018..!
4. The rest of my post with a "single line" about yourself was addressing your question about certain capabilities of thunder from the latest interview but as always you chose to ignore it..!


Read the latest ACM interview , refuel in flight has been done many times in block 2.....!

Just leave the discussion. For Indians, JF17 will remain the same like it was 7-8 years back. It will never ever get updated and forget the blocks part man!

 

[Spy Master]

I dont understand the mentality of indians. So if JF-17 Inducted early and being upgraded in increments vis a vis it has become a shortcoming of some sort ?

This is some serious flaw in such argument. So The eurofighter, Rafael, F-16 who were upgraded early and were upgraded incrementally exactly like JF-17. So would you downvote them as well ?

Point one short coming of JF-17 when it was inducted vis a vis when F-16 was inducted and When Eurofighter was inducted.

A nation inducts aircraft early so it can create a support base of aircraft much early. How much of LCA support base has been created in IAF bases sans where the aircraft is being flight tested ? How much IAF technicians are trained on maintaining LCA ?

Now in simple words @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

1. The IAF approach is to only induct Tejas when it is fully operational and it might be 2019-2020 as of now..from 2020 they will start making a serial production and from your point of view that is a true approach on the cost of pilot life of MIGs...!

This entire timeline is fictitious. The LCA will gain FOC by March 2016, the IAF will begin inducting the LCA from 2016 and from 2017 onwards HAL will be proceeding 16 LCA a year.

2. PAF approach is to induct Thunder and make it potent with time, with the serious advantage of pilot skill on the aircraft after flying it for 100s of hours..Then you can see by 2020 PAF will nearly have 70-80 aircrafts with precious blocks that can be upgraded to latest blocks with the advantage of pilot training..!!

There is some validity in saying that having significantly more time on the aircraft by frontline pilots puts the Thunder at an advantage over the LCA the IF the timeframe of the next Indo-Pak war is 2020. Long term the IAF's approach will pay off though.

Is having a high level of operational flight hours going to address the inherent shortcomings of the Thunder vis a vis the LCA? No.

 

[Spy Master]

@spymaster

I would like to say THANKS to you for posting this article

However you DO NOT understand The technicalities of fighter planes
AND the different dynamics under which PAF and IAF live and operate

So @Abingdonboy Sir ; there is no point in this interaction with this Gentleman

Yes sir..Only you can understand your Highness..I respect and salute you...Thanks..

This entire timeline is fictitious. The LCA will gain FOC by March 2016, the IAF will begin inducting the LCA from 2016 and from 2017 onwards HAL will be proceeding 16 LCA a year.


There is some validity in saying that having significantly more time on the aircraft by frontline pilots puts the Thunder at an advantage over the LCA the IF the timeframe of the next Indo-Pak war is 2020. Long term the IAF's approach will pay off though.

Is having a high level of operational flight hours going to address the inherent shortcomings of the Thunder vis a vis the LCA? No.

And PAF will never do anything about those your "SUPPOSED" shortcomings? What a flawed argument sir..In your logic only India will upgrade LCA but PAF will not?
I don't understand is LCA some sort of DIVINE project?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Bratva

Just because JF 17 has been inducted it does nt become better

Using the F 35 ANALOGY ; F 35 is struggling ; but when ready it will be
the BEST kick a$$ plane in the world

PAF had no choice but to induct JF 17

For PAF There are No more F 16 coming ; J 10 is NOT available
No Russian ; European planes available

JF 17 is your NECESSITY ; not your desire

 

[Sugarcane]

Didn't knew that Teja can do A2A sitting on trailer.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

There is some validity in saying that having significantly more time on the aircraft by frontline pilots puts the Thunder at an advantage over the LCA the IF the timeframe of the next Indo-Pak war is 2020. Long term the IAF's approach will pay off though.

No the JF 17 wont stand against IAF Mig 29 ; Mirage 2000 and

Mig 21 Bison too can knock it out

Mig 21 has given a TOUGH time to F 15 and F 16

 

[majid mehmood]

guys i found that mirage has 1.5m2 as rcs (avg) so if tejas 2/3 rcs mirage 2000 than it would be .99m2 so 1m2 (apporiximately)

 

[Spy Master]

[

No the JF 17 wont stand against IAF Mig 29 ; Mirage 2000 and

Mig 21 Bison too can knock it out

Mig 21 has given a TOUGH time to F 15 and F 16

Wth did I just read ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

This is some serious flaw in such argument. So The eurofighter, Rafael, F-16, F-22 raptor, F-35 who cant even fire gun were inducted early and were/would be upgraded incrementally exactly like JF-17. So would you downvote them as well ?

All such examples took place out of necessity and let us not pretend this was a rosy picture. The F-35 faces a significant amount of criticism for being inducted into service devoid of many critical and promised capabilities- this is a political and financial compulsion above all else.

A nation inducts aircraft early so it can create a support base of aircraft much early. How much of LCA support base has been created in IAF bases sans where the aircraft is being flight tested ? How much IAF technicians are trained on maintaining LCA ?

This is, perhaps, the most valid argument one can make of where the Thunder scores over the LCA. It is true the IAF will take some time to get up to speed on maintaining and supporting the LCA (but this will also be offset to a large degree by having the LCA designed in-house) and if the LCA was to be the backbone of the IAF this would be highly troublesome HOWEVER the IAF has a large fleet of tested and proven (and highly capable) fighters in service and is inducting more (Rafale) so they have got the time to bed themselves in.


Again, many here are using a LCA vs Thunder comparison in a vacuum without contextualising the analysis so as to serve their own argument. This should be a IAF vs PAF debate otherwise this is a nonsensical conversation.

 

[Bratva]

@Bratva

Just because JF 17 has been inducted it does nt become better

Using the F 35 ANALOGY ; F 35 is struggling ; but when ready it will be
the BEST kick a$$ plane in the world

PAF had no choice but to induct JF 17

For PAF There are No more F 16 coming ; J 10 is NOT available
No Russian ; European planes available

JF 17 is your NECESSITY

Another useless argument. Go read up on euro fighter struggles. It ahs been 10 years since its induction and it is yet to be integrated with Air to Ground munitions. Aside all the structural problems it is facing now a days.

Irrespective of PAF choice. Prove me wrong Eurofighter, Rafael,F-22 raptor, F-16 didnt follow the JF-17 trajectory and were inducted with very basic set of functions and were incremented up to a point which JF-17 Block III will reach.

 

[majid mehmood]

No the JF 17 wont stand against IAF Mig 29 ; Mirage 2000 and

Mig 21 Bison too can knock it out

Mig 21 has given a TOUGH time to F 15 and F 16

but f16 has given tough time to mig 29
like this
)

 

[Abingdonboy]

[

Wth did I just read ?

Check the results of Cope India 2004/5- the USAF were taken aback (somewhat) by the way the IAF used this little monster.

This doesn't make it superior to either the -16 or -15 but in certain circumstances and with the right tactics it can certainly hold its own.

 

[Shinigami]

[

Wth did I just read ?

watch youtube vid of USAF pilot talking abt mig21 bison

 

[Spy Master]

Check the results of Cope India 2004/5- the USAF were taken aback (somewhat) by the way the IAF used this little monster.

This doesn't make it superior to either the -16 or -15 but in certain circumstances and with the right tactics it can certainly hold its own.

Then with "certain tactics" so can F7PG, MIRAGE and Thunder against SU 30? Right sir?