COMMENT : Democracy and Indian Muslims

[RazPaK]

Of course, of course. Don't get excited. These mud hut wallahs from London, and now Washington, are all the same. Totally oblivious to the manifest glory in a flash of cordite. Just forget them and move on.

The champion of pats on the backs from the British has come...how charming..?

Sorry, but we are not all mental slaves nor do we take pride in serving the white man.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Some people think that democracy is some sort of "silver bullet" that can fix everything.

My city HK has never been a democracy, we have never had universal suffrage. Ever. Yet we have the 2nd highest life expectancy on Earth, an HDI ranking above western European countries like Britain/France/Spain, and one of the highest incomes in the world.

True, democracies statistically have done better, but it depends on their implementation. And it is certainly not a silver bullet, look at authoritarian Singapore vs the Democratic Republic of the Congo for instance.



Wow, I can't believe the author said that as well.

True, it is not a silver bullet. We should know; we re relatively well off, but retarded by democratic process and the cupidity of our politicians. Is anything else a silver bullet? I think not. If you look at the alternatives, at Hong Kong, for instance, you should not overlook the fact that it was ruled, in an undemocratic way, as a colony, by a democracy. Much of its progress is due to that, the compulsion facing colonial powers in a post-colonial era, when naked exploitation was no longer possible, and elements of democracy and of civil rights had to come in.

A democracy, which retains the external forms and behaves in an undemocratic way, is as good or as bad as any dictatorial or autocratic regime. By and large, the better democracies are better places to live in than the better autocracies.

About the remark about 1857, the author was articulating a belief that I know will seem ill-fitting to you: freedom under a retrogressive regime is not better than lack of freedom under a progressive regime. Surely you can think of an example at the doorstep. It is a reminder to all of us that the various Springs and Summers are worthless, as long as they overthrow one type of repression only to replace it with another.

Indians are so pathetic.




This quote and the paragraph afterwards made me laugh the hardest.

You laugh a lot. That is good. Some part of it is due to the fundamental gaps that make some posters cover up their intellectual inadequacy (and their linguistic shortcomings) by communicating through LOL as a language, for lack of any other. But on the whole, it is good for you. As Robert Morley put it, laughter is good for the digestion. We may hope that you will last for decades, and enlighten us and illuminate our discourses with your ready gift of laughter. During this long life, you might even find out why you feel like laughing. Given enough time, you might even move to the sublime heights of being able to share it with us. No doubt with assistance from LOL speech.

 

[Joe Shearer]

how mughal empire barely existed just around the suburbs of Delhi long before 1857 rebellion took place

Yes, but in the minds of thousands, millions in north India, it was the dominating political concept until the British Crown took over direct rule.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

True, it is not a silver bullet. We should know; we re relatively well off, but retarded by democratic process and the cupidity of our politicians. Is anything else a silver bullet? I think not. If you look at the alternatives, at Hong Kong, for instance, you should not overlook the fact that it was ruled, in an undemocratic way, as a colony, by a democracy. Much of its progress is due to that, the compulsion facing colonial powers in a post-colonial era, when naked exploitation was no longer possible, and elements of democracy and of civil rights had to come in.

A democracy, which retains the external forms and behaves in an undemocratic way, is as good or as bad as any dictatorial or autocratic regime. By and large, the better democracies are better places to live in than the better autocracies.

About the remark about 1857, the author was articulating a belief that I know will seem ill-fitting to you: freedom under a retrogressive regime is not better than lack of freedom under a progressive regime. Surely you can think of an example at the doorstep. It is a reminder to all of us that the various Springs and Summers are worthless, as long as they overthrow one type of repression only to replace it with another.

I mentioned Hong Kong because I know it better, but cities in the mainland like Shanghai are very similar to Hong Kong in terms of development. And they developed under the PRC government.

Does it not seem odd, that out of the many democracies in the developing world... the number 1 best performing economy in the developing world is China?

This suggests to me that implementation is more important than ideology. Living in a non-democratic city like HK that constantly beats world records in various fields of development lends further evidence to this idea.

 

[Koovie]

HATERS GONNA HATE

We know that we live in a democracy, maybe its not perfect, but seriously, which one is perfect???

China is more efficient, thats right, but her model will simply not work in a diverse country like India.

And considering that our country is the most diverse country on the planet, we can be proud that we always managed to remain under the government elected by the people of India, and not the one chosen by some generals (like in some neighbouring countries)!

Jai Hind!

And keep crying trolls. We are happy here, you have got enough problems in your own homes.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian democracy is a sham in accordance to the concepts of greek democracy or even western democracy.

The west gives these mental slaves a few kind words and they pledge to work harder for their mental master.

How pathetic...

The amount that you do not know about 'Greek' democracy, presumably LOL shorthand for Athenian democracy, would fill the Bodleian. Perhaps you should stick to jibes, insults and LOLs.

It would be interesting if you could share with us in heavy detail, say, a hundred and fifty words or so, since it is unlikely that you can go beyond, your lofty thoughts on the differences between 'western' democracy (so much for the Japs and the Koreans) and Indian. Your vast knowledge of democracy in south Asia will no doubt come to your help.

 

[RazPaK]

True, it is not a silver bullet. We should know; we re relatively well off, but retarded by democratic process and the cupidity of our politicians. Is anything else a silver bullet? I think not. If you look at the alternatives, at Hong Kong, for instance, you should not overlook the fact that it was ruled, in an undemocratic way, as a colony, by a democracy. Much of its progress is due to that, the compulsion facing colonial powers in a post-colonial era, when naked exploitation was no longer possible, and elements of democracy and of civil rights had to come in.

A democracy, which retains the external forms and behaves in an undemocratic way, is as good or as bad as any dictatorial or autocratic regime. By and large, the better democracies are better places to live in than the better autocracies.

About the remark about 1857, the author was articulating a belief that I know will seem ill-fitting to you: freedom under a retrogressive regime is not better than lack of freedom under a progressive regime. Surely you can think of an example at the doorstep. It is a reminder to all of us that the various Springs and Summers are worthless, as long as they overthrow one type of repression only to replace it with another.




You laugh a lot. That is good. Some part of it is due to the fundamental gaps that make some posters cover up their intellectual inadequacy (and their linguistic shortcomings) by communicating through LOL as a language, for lack of any other. But on the whole, it is good for you. As Robert Morley put it, laughter is good for the digestion. We may hope that you will last for decades, and enlighten us and illuminate our discourses with your ready gift of laughter. During this long life, you might even find out why you feel like laughing. Given enough time, you might even move to the sublime heights of being able to share it with us. No doubt with assistance from LOL speech.

LOL.

Defending a pat from westerners..


Many of us were not a part a of the crown, nor would we take pride in such an affiliation.

 

[INDIC]

The champion of pats on the backs from the British has come...how charming..?

Sorry, but we are not all mental slaves nor do we take pride in serving the white man.

Then why millions of Pakistanis have dual nationality.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China is more efficient, thats right, but her model will simply not work in a diverse country like India.

That's fair enough.

There is a theory that East Asian countries have done well under autocracies because our populations tend to be more homogenous.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I will believe in Indian Democracy when Naredra Modi is hanged for his crimes. Till then it is not Indian Democracy but Indian Hypocrisy.

Both unkind and unwise. Unbecoming of you, Sir.

 

[third eye]

I mentioned Hong Kong because I know it better, but cities in the mainland like Shanghai are very similar to Hong Kong in terms of development. And they developed under the PRC government.

Does it not seem odd, that out of the many democracies in the developing world... the number 1 best performing economy in the developing world is China?

This suggests to me that implementation is more important than ideology. Living in a non-democratic city like HK that constantly beats all world records in various fields of development lends further evidence to this idea.

There is no denying that any system or plan is only as good as its implementation.

Yet, implementation alone cannot override considerations like the will of the people, their ability to voice it and the options people have to express resent.

What I am attempting to say is that a healthy combination of the Top down and Bottom Up model is best. The pendulum will sway more towards one or another at times.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It was a propaganda piece, and I find it hilarious that you are trying to explain this to me.

Take a deep breath and understand that nobody will take this seriously except for some Indians that need their egos massaged such as yourself.

In reality it lets others realize how juvenile most Indians are.

Why would Indians print a propaganda piece in a Pakistani daily?

 

[Koovie]

That's fair enough.

There is a theory that East Asian countries have done well under autocracies because our populations tend to be more homogenous.

Exactly, Indians from a specific race, religion, political field or whatever would hardly accept an authoritarian ruler from another group, thus the current parliamentarian system is the only option.

 

[RazPaK]

The amount that you do not know about 'Greek' democracy, presumably LOL shorthand for Athenian democracy, would fill the Bodleian. Perhaps you should stick to jibes, insults and LOLs.

It would be interesting if you could share with us in heavy detail, say, a hundred and fifty words or so, since it is unlikely that you can go beyond, your lofty thoughts on the differences between 'western' democracy (so much for the Japs and the Koreans) and Indian. Your vast knowledge of democracy in south Asia will no doubt come to your help.

What do I need to prove to a western nokar about my knowledge?

I mean by golly, you've impressed me with the fact that you've specified that greek democracy is also known as athenian democracy.

Jeez I wish I was as smart as you.



I guess those classes I've taken at NYU are now void because of Joe Shearer.

Oh noes...

Take a hike pal.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There is no denying that any system or plan is only as good as its implementation.

Yet, implementation alone cannot override considerations like the will of the people, their ability to voice it and the options people have to express resent.

What I am attempting to say is that a healthy combination of the Top down and Bottom Up model is best. The pendulum will sway more towards one or another at times.

That's absolutely right, a balanced approach would be the best.

Like the Buddha said, it is best to take the middle path (中&#36947 instead of either extreme.