COMAC - ARJ-21 : milestone - facts and current performance

[BoQ77]

No, our Congress rejected the HSR projects. We give priority to airliners.
ASEAN countries also commit the Open Sky or One Market for aviation.

Pay a visit to this thread
https://defence.pk/threads/low-cost...-carriers-expanding-in-southeast-asia.429805/

Is there a high-speed railway in Vietnam?
China-standard bullet trains start operation

 

[Beast]

No, our Congress rejected the HSR projects. We give priority to airliners.
ASEAN countries also commit the Open Sky or One Market for aviation.

Pay a visit to this thread
https://defence.pk/threads/low-cost...-carriers-expanding-in-southeast-asia.429805/

Can't afford and lack of technology so give beautiful excuse like giving priority to airliner development. I can understand your excuse.

 

[BoQ77]

Can't afford and lack of technology so give beautiful excuse like giving priority to airliner development. I can understand your excuse.

What would you say about the US aviation and railway system ?

 

[Beast]

What would you say about the US aviation and railway system ?

US has no money to develop rail. But they have a robust aviation industries. More planes means good business for themselves. Not that they do not want HSR. If you just want to travel from one province or state to another of distance 300km to 500km. Will taking an airliner be better or HSR?

HSR can promote trade business and help grow of the city and town as activities will concentrate around the HSR station. Airport is too huge and many restriction like apartment height and clearance.

 

[BoQ77]

US has no money to develop rail. But they have a robust aviation industries. More planes means good business for themselves. Not that they do not want HSR. If you just want to travel from one province or state to another of distance 300km to 500km. Will taking an airliner be better or HSR?
.

Yeah. We follow the trend in ASEAN, aircrafts connect us easily as One. There are some times, I arrive to the office in the morning and get order to fly to Bangkok for a quick meeting and would return at 4 pm. No problem. We fly.
That´s why Vietjet Air increased their ordered fleet to 200 aircrafts.
Happy with a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Johor Bahru, about 450km during 45min.
Vietnam will start to build Long Thanh airport as a massive hub of Asean aviation with max capacity 100 million pax per year.
For distance 250-300 km, we would use ordinary train, coach or car.
while we have no something like HSR.

 

[Beast]

Yeah. We follow the trend in ASEAN, aircrafts connect us easily as One. That´s why Vietjet Air increased their ordered fleet to 200 aircrafts.
Happy with a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Johor Bahru, about 450km during 45min.
For distance 250-300 km, we would use ordinary train, coach or car.

Ordinary train is too slow and driving is too tiring for such long distance of 500km. And how do you promote province to province interconnection working environment if one employee wish to travel daily to daily working condition to cut down living expenses? You don't expect him to drive 3-4hrs to work for a single trip. Or to expect him to take plane everyday unless he is pilot or air steward?

 

[BoQ77]

Ordinary train is too slow and driving is too tiring for such long distance of 500km. And how do you promote province to province interconnection working environment if one employee wish to travel daily to daily working condition to cut down living expenses? You don't expect him to drive 3-4hrs to work for a single trip. Or to expect him to take plane everyday unless he is pilot or air steward?

or you buy him HSR tickets for every day travel?
over here we dont travel 500km everyday.

We would choose to fly for less than 1 hour of flight time or an overnight train or coach.
The distance of flight is shorter than land based distance.

As checked, if I buy the cheapest available air ticket from Hanoi to Da Nang for today flight and tomorrow return, it costs 50 USD for return ticket (Vietjet Air ). flight time over 1 hour, distance over 600km ( road distance over 700km ).

 

[BoQ77]

As update to the performance of the first COMAC Chengdu Airlines ARJ-21 in service ( since 28 June 2016 ):
Below is the flight list :

11/Aug morning Chengdu - Shanghai
11/Aug afternoon Shanghai - Chengdu
13/Aug Chengdu - Shanghai
13/Aug Shanghai - Chengdu
16/Aug Chengdu - Shanghai
16/Aug Shanghai - Chengdu

flight time: 2:22:00 to 2:44:00,
In summary: 1 week, 6 flights, 15.2 flight hours, 2.17 flight hours / day, maximum 540 pax / week

 

[somebozo]

ARJ-21 has a list price estimated at around $30 million, way cheaper than similar Western jets. But it's also heavier, which means it burns more fuel. And Comac is an unproven entity; the only thing airlines outside of China really know about it is that it's taken a long time to put its first jet into the hands of its first customer (which also is a subsidiary of Comac itself, by the way, not an independent airline.)

Yep...precisely the western advantage of advance engineering...lighter materials..fuel efficient engine...advanced computer algorithm to automate flight operations and render more safety and economy.

 

[BoQ77]

As checked, at this moment, you still can book for the earliest flights with ARJ21 on 18 Aug / 20 Aug and 23 Aug.

You can not fly with Chengdu Airlines ARJ21 on 19Aug, 21Aug, 22Aug, 24Aug
but can fly with Chengdu Airlines A320, A319 on any day

Chengdu Airline A320 : punctuality 88%
Chengdu Airline ARJ21 : punctualty 72%

Punctuality is the characteristic of being able to complete a required task or fulfill an obligation before or at a previously designated time. "Punctual" is often used synonymously with "on time".

 

[SBUS-CXK]

My post based on the real facts. What is your idea on it? Refer 1st post.

I don't deny the fact that you. But please use logical thinking.

1, China is in aviation industry, are not dependent on any foreign.

2, there are 200 countries around the world, but how many countries can make a plane?

31980-1988 iran-iraq war, is the peak of the J-7 exports in China, for China to earn a lot of foreign exchange. And Iraq and Iran can only rely on precious foreign exchange reserves to buy foreign aircraft, lose a cannot make up for.

4, why not spend the money you buy foreign aircraft, developed their own planes?

 

[BoQ77]

Effort to build ourselves aircrafts are great.
Actually, I do expect to see China could develop your own aircrafts, your domestic market would be large enough for that.
Any aircraft manufacturer need market, no matter they are Boeing or Airbus...

Market is similar to competitive aspects like price, leading time, innovation, operation cost ... all related.
The 2nd post is about the article said that ARJ21 slightly cheaper but heavier means more consumption of fuel, and COMAC is famous with sacrifice the buyer because the delay after the delay, ... that's totally true.

The private buyers would never count on COMAC for their development plan, no matter how cheap the ARJ21 or later C919 is; because the delay cause innovation become obsolete by time.

If a small carrier gave their whole heart to COMAC, they could be betrayal because of delay. The good will could lead them to bankruptcy.

Keep your schedule just in time or with little delay, it's the way to take the buyer heart, or in another word "the market"
You could consider the so long time after delivery Nov 2015 to enter service dated 28 Jun 2016 and the current poor performance of ARJ21 as continuous delay. Refer to A-380 success.

The cost - effective aspect relates to many things.

The final target is making your customers rich.

My post is all about what a real buyer would think about ARJ21.

Btw, the budget to develop new aircraft is not small. Do you know how much is it ? Thanks in advance.

I don't deny the fact that you. But please use logical thinking.

1, China is in aviation industry, are not dependent on any foreign.

2, there are 200 countries around the world, but how many countries can make a plane?

31980-1988 iran-iraq war, is the peak of the J-7 exports in China, for China to earn a lot of foreign exchange. And Iraq and Iran can only rely on precious foreign exchange reserves to buy foreign aircraft, lose a cannot make up for.

4, why not spend the money you buy foreign aircraft, developed their own planes?

 

[Nibiru]

I am curious about ARJ21 performance, esp compared to competitor from regional: MRJ, N-80 etc

 

[Beast]

Effort to build ourselves aircrafts are great.
Actually, I do expect to see China could develop your own aircrafts, your domestic market would be large enough for that.
Any aircraft manufacturer need market, no matter they are Boeing or Airbus...

Market is similar to competitive aspects like price, leading time, innovation, operation cost ... all related.
The 2nd post is about the article said that ARJ21 slightly cheaper but heavier means more consumption of fuel, and COMAC is famous with sacrifice the buyer because the delay after the delay, ... that's totally true.

The private buyers would never count on COMAC for their development plan, no matter how cheap the ARJ21 or later C919 is; because the delay cause innovation become obsolete by time.

If a small carrier gave their whole heart to COMAC, they could be betrayal because of delay. The good will could lead them to bankruptcy.

Keep your schedule just in time or with little delay, it's the way to take the buyer heart, or in another word "the market"
You could consider the so long time after delivery Nov 2015 to enter service dated 28 Jun 2016 and the current poor performance of ARJ21 as continuous delay. Refer to A-380 success.

The cost - effective aspect relates to many things.

The final target is making your customers rich.

My post is all about what a real buyer would think about ARJ21.

Btw, the budget to develop new aircraft is not small. Do you know how much is it ? Thanks in advance.

That is true if our airliner is not stated owned. But all our airliner is stated owned and they need to listen to CPC. China is flourish with cash. The airliner will not bankrupt. They will be rope in by CPC if needed. They just need to buy ARJ-21 to support domestic aviation. It's a long term strategic. Low vision Vietnamese will not know such thing You can say whatever u want. But ARJ-21 will have a place in China caution history. The real one will be C919 where order will be given to buy no matter what. C919 will be the one that give China aviation glory!

 

[BoQ77]

That is true if our airliner is not stated owned. But all our airliner is stated owned and they need to listen to CPC. China is flourish with cash. The airliner will not bankrupt. They will be rope in by CPC if needed. They just need to buy ARJ-21 to support domestic aviation. It's a long term strategic. Low vision Vietnamese will not know such thing You can say whatever u want. But ARJ-21 will have a place in China caution history. The real one will be C919 where order will be given to buy no matter what. C919 will be the one that give China aviation glory!

Yeah Chengdu Airlines is COMAC subsidiary, so we could say that COMAC still has no real buyer at this moment.
They continue testing on ARJ21 after declared that ARJ21 in service.
That explain the current poor performance of ARJ21 service.

The aircrafts made money for Chengdu Airlines are Airbus A320

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All of your airliners don't follow the market rules ?