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COMAC - ARJ-21 : milestone - facts and current performance

Effort to build ourselves aircrafts are great.
Actually, I do expect to see China could develop your own aircrafts, your domestic market would be large enough for that.
Any aircraft manufacturer need market, no matter they are Boeing or Airbus...

Market is similar to competitive aspects like price, leading time, innovation, operation cost ... all related.
The 2nd post is about the article said that ARJ21 slightly cheaper but heavier means more consumption of fuel, and COMAC is famous with sacrifice the buyer because the delay after the delay, ... that's totally true.

The private buyers would never count on COMAC for their development plan, no matter how cheap the ARJ21 or later C919 is; because the delay cause innovation become obsolete by time.

If a small carrier gave their whole heart to COMAC, they could be betrayal because of delay. The good will could lead them to bankruptcy.

Keep your schedule just in time or with little delay, it's the way to take the buyer heart, or in another word "the market"
You could consider the so long time after delivery Nov 2015 to enter service dated 28 Jun 2016 and the current poor performance of ARJ21 as continuous delay. Refer to A-380 success.

The cost - effective aspect relates to many things.

The final target is making your customers rich.

My post is all about what a real buyer would think about ARJ21.

Btw, the budget to develop new aircraft is not small. Do you know how much is it ? Thanks in advance.
OK, Develop the new aircraft is expensive. It is very expensive.
So, for airbus and Boeing, is cheap?
Such as... VietJet purchase of 100 aircraft 737 Max is cheap?
 
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Why dont you guys stop helping this mega troll to expand his course of bashing China
There is no thorough account of the "Milestone" of ARJ-21
There is minimal "facts" about ARJ-21
There is a list of "flight schedules" which the mega troll lean on to bash ARJ-21's "lack of revenue" and thus “poor performance”
In essence the title itself is wrong
All he wanted to quote was an article which criticized ARJ-21 as usual by a western writer and then the posting of the Mitsibishi jet one floor above.
He is using the Japanese plane + Boeing et al to foul-mouth our efforts in commercial aviation
Why should we bother about the mega troll whose postings make no sense and dont you think based on his hard trolling we should stop flying ARJ-21 and write off our investments? Even if you guys win the arguments do you think you can change the mega-troll's rancorous attitude against China?
RIDICULOUS
 
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Why dont you guys stop helping this mega troll to expand his course of bashing China
There is no thorough account of the "Milestone" of ARJ-21
There is minimal "facts" about ARJ-21
There is a list of "flight schedules" which the mega troll lean on to bash ARJ-21's "lack of revenue" and thus “poor performance”
In essence the title itself is wrong
All he wanted to quote was an article which criticized ARJ-21 as usual by a western writer and then the posting of the Mitsibishi jet one floor above.
He is using the Japanese plane + Boeing et al to foul-mouth our efforts in commercial aviation
Why should we bother about the mega troll whose postings make no sense and dont you think based on his hard trolling we should stop flying ARJ-21 and write off our investments? Even if you guys win the arguments do you think you can change the mega-troll's rancorous attitude against China?
RIDICULOUS
We are not changing his attitude. His intention is to misled reader and try to paint China in bad light. By pointing out his flaw, reader will truly the picture behind.

A lot of american system and weapon are overhyped. We can see how ISIS over run US equipped Iraq army. The abram tank claim so powerful easily knock out. All thanks to plenty of BS articles flood by their American and many ignorant just follow blindly. If somebody point it out rationally and let other see the point. People will realise the lies spread by all this white boot lickers. :enjoy:
 
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We are not changing his attitude. His intention is to misled reader and try to paint China in bad light. By pointing out his flaw, reader will truly the picture behind.

A lot of american system and weapon are overhyped. We can see how ISIS over run US equipped Iraq army. The abram tank claim so powerful easily knock out. All thanks to plenty of BS articles flood by their American and many ignorant just follow blindly. If somebody point it out rationally and let other see the point. People will realise the lies spread by all this white boot lickers. :enjoy:

People with better knowlegeable background or training know instantly that this is flame-bait material designed by the mega trolls This is NOT the first time he has done this
wrong title, little facts, poor showing of milestone, unsound support for arj-21's performance even amateurish terminologies were used by the MT (mega troll)
Serious readers who want to seek valuable materials relevant to ARJ-21 wont come to this thread for truth
American weaponry blah blah are not in the gist of this thread so stay out of it olease
 
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Please make a guess
"When ARJ21 could start achieve the same frequence as other regional jet A320 of Chengdu Airlines, means about 6 flights per day or 10-12 hours of daily flight time?"

Current performance of ARJ21 ( stand for Advance Regional Jet for 21st century ) is 6 flights per week or 15.2 flight hours per week after over 1 month and a half from its enter to service day. And enter service after 210 days from the delivery time.

Refer to another total NEW and Advance Jet, the A380
The very first A380 enters service 10 days after delivery time
And during 2 months in service A380 immediately achieve the average of over 15 hours of flight time every day
 
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Please make a guess
"When ARJ21 could start achieve the same frequence as other regional jet A320 of Chengdu Airlines, means about 12 hours of daily flight time?"

Current performance of ARJ21 ( stand for Advance Regional Jet for 21st century ) is 15.2 flight hours per week after over 1 month and a half from its enter to service day. And enter service after 210 days from the delivery time.

Refer to another total NEW and Advance Jet, the A380
The very first A380 enters service 10 days after delivery time
And during 2 months in service A380 immediately achieve the average of over 15 hours of flight time every day

That is true if you are comparing orange to orange. Let me ask u one simple question. If A380 and ARJ-21 both same class of passenger airliner? Different class has different needs and I don't think I remind you bigger plane can fly more route and longer. Your comparison is flaw.
 
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That is true if you are comparing orange to orange. Let me ask u one simple question. If A380 and ARJ-21 both same class of passenger airliner? Different class has different needs and I don't think I remind you bigger plane can fly more route and longer. Your comparison is flaw.

Actually, my question is about aircrafts of Chengdu Airlines A320 and ARJ21, mention that both serves the same route Chengdu - Shanghai now, and ARJ21 could reach most of Chengdu Airlines destinations, only lesser in seaters.

Other info is for reference purpose as stated.
 
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People with better knowlegeable background or training know instantly that this is flame-bait material designed by the mega trolls This is NOT the first time he has done this
wrong title, little facts, poor showing of milestone, unsound support for arj-21's performance even amateurish terminologies were used by the MT (mega troll)
Serious readers who want to seek valuable materials relevant to ARJ-21 wont come to this thread for truth
American weaponry blah blah are not in the gist of this thread so stay out of it olease
Let me ask you, how many forumers or viewers have the so called better knowledge? If the forum and online information is so straight forward and most forumers are so rational. Perhaps we shall not be so worried about radicalized people online by ISIS.

There was once this article about this white man who constantly feed with BS online abt China. He is full of hatred and igorance for China Tibet until he travel to China Tibet himself to see thru all the lies spread online and by western media.
 
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Actually, my question is about aircrafts of Chengdu Airlines A320 and ARJ21, mention that both serves the same route Chengdu - Shanghai now, and ARJ21 could reach most of Chengdu Airlines destinations, only lesser in seaters.

Other info is for reference purpose as stated.
I already mention A320 and ARJ-21 are still 2 different class of passenger airliner and A320 is a proven aircraft with many years of history and it's a same class as C919. You are trying to compare a heavy weight vs light weight. Trying to compare a new class of jet which is just into service of 2 months and expect it to be good as A320 or B737. Don't u think is unreasonable? what is wrong with a little bit of caution. Are you trying to imply caution is no good and acting rash is better?

It will be better after a year of service and you come back to gauge its service. 2 months prove nothing. What happen suddenly after 6 months it's flight number increase or flight hours running at max? Then how are you going to say?
 
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I already mention A320 and ARJ-21 are still 2 different class of passenger airliner and A320 is a proven aircraft with many years of history and it's a same class as C919. You are trying to compare a heavy weight vs light weight. Trying to compare a new class of jet which is just into service of 2 months and expect it to be good as A320 or B737. Don't u think is unreasonable? what is wrong with a little bit of caution. Are you trying to imply caution is no good and acting rash is better?

It will be better after a year of service and you come back to gauge its service. 2 months prove nothing. What happen suddenly after 6 months it's flight number increase or flight hours running at max? Then how are you going to say?

That's why I put A-380 as a total new model for reference.
You should focus on the GUESS : "to you when the ARJ21 could reach the same frequence to A320? in Chengdu Airlines"
 
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That's why I put A-380 as a total new model for reference.
You should focus on the GUESS : "to you when the ARJ21 could reach the same frequence to A320? in Chengdu Airlines"
I already say after one year come back and talk about it. Are you nitpicking just after 2 months of service? If I used your standard, Vietnam will consider a failure to make it top 10 economy power by 2020?
 
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20160818001757.jpg


20160818001808.jpg
 
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As we could see, the inflight photo on ARJ21 tell us a fact even ARJ21 offer less seaters than A320, they aren't filled completely.

Some milestones of ARJ21:

2002: the ARJ21 project started
2008 : the maiden flight
Oct 2014 : the first flight of ARJ21 serial 106 which is the only ARJ21 aircraft in service now.
Nov 2015 : the delivery time of ARJ21 B-3321
28 June 2016 : the first commercial flight of B-3321
 
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Headwinds could divert China’s first civil jet to frontier markets
Wed, 24 August 2016
Cam McGrath

China has developed the county’s first-ever commercial passenger jet, but finding buyers for what one aviation expert described as a “stunningly obsolete” aircraft outside its own command economy is proving a lofty challenge.

Some suspect its state-owned manufacturer could be using China’s political clout to pressure airlines in aid-dependant Asian and African countries – including Cambodia – to place orders.

The ARJ21 Xiangfeng made its maiden commercial flight two months ago with Chengdu Airlines, one of the manufacturer’s subsidiaries, delivering 70 passengers from Chengdu to Shanghai on the 90-seat regional jet.

Though nine years behind schedule, the two-hour flight signified a giant leap for Commercial Aircraft Corp of China (COMAC), marking the aviation firm’s tenuous entry into the ring with other regional jet manufacturers, including Bombardier and Embraer. The company is also developing its C919, a larger passenger jet aircraft that it hopes will one day challenge the popular Boeing B737 and Airbus A320.

COMAC executives did not respond to interview requests. However, Wu Xingshi, the ARJ21’s former chief designer, recently told Chinese media outlets that the development of the first commercial passenger jet “offers valuable experience for China’s aviation industry, especially in the large civil aircraft area”.

To date, COMAC has received orders for more than 300 ARJ21s from about 20 airlines, nearly all of them Chinese. Its executives have also flogged the short-haul regional jet in international markets, clinching sales to a handful of small Asian and African airlines.

Among these are the state-owned flagship carriers of Laos and Myanmar, which have agreed to purchase two aircraft each.

Richard Aboulafia, vice president for analysis at aviation research firm Teal Group, said the deeply flawed design of the ARJ21 makes these purchase orders extremely suspect.

“It has been many years since the aviation business has seen such a stunningly obsolete product as the ARJ21,” he said. “It has no place in the world commercial aircraft market, except as a political tool.”

While Chinese aviation experts have praised the ARJ21’s innovation, Western critics claim the technology used in the Chinese aircraft is decades old, with the model amounting to little more than a scaled-down version of the McDonnell Douglas MD-90, an American aircraft that went into service in 1993. The similarities are hardly surprising as the ARJ21 is built using MD-90 manufacturing tooling in Chinese factories once contracted to assemble the American aircraft.

The ARJ21 is equipped with American engines and avionics, but there are lingering concerns over the quality and performance of what is widely seen as an inferior modified clone. The budget-priced $30 million aircraft has yet to receive US FAA certification, a precondition to fly in the major aviation markets.

Even if it was very heavily discounted, used Embraer or Bombardier jets will always be better and less expensive, unless the ARJ21 was basically free,” said Aboulafia. “An airline would only purchase it for political reasons, or if some other inducement or incentive was provided to get an airline manager to specify a seriously bad aircraft.”

Robert Michelson, principal research engineer emeritus at Georgia Tech Research Institute, said he expects COMAC to look to less-regulated aviation markets where secondary and tertiary airlines operate on razor-thin margins.

“I think that the acceptance of the ARJ21 is going to come down to relative cost in smaller markets where an airline’s reputation may be less important than the bottom line,” he said. “I’d be surprised to see major airlines add ARJ21s to their fleets until it has an established track record.”

One additional disincentive for airlines is that they will need to find pilots licensed to fly the new Chinese-built aircraft. Pilot licences are model-specific, and pilots may be reluctant to invest in expensive training on an unproven jet model, especially as regulations prohibit them from operating multiple models at the same time.

COMAC executives have been touring the region to pitch the new aircraft. Rodante Ponio, manager for commercial services at Bassaka Air Ltd, a local airline that currently operates two Airbus A320-200s, said Bassaka received a visit last year, but the new model was not discussed.

“COMAC visited us last year, but [said] nothing about the ARJ21 commercial jet,” he said, adding: “At present, our search for additional aircraft is focused on the type of aircraft we are now operating.”

Cambodia Bayon Airlines, a locally registered subsidiary of China’s state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), also said it received a visit from COMAC’s sales team. A Bayon representative confirmed that the airline was considering purchasing ARJ21 aircraft for its fleet, though no price has been set.

Bayon currently operates two Chinese-manufactured Xi’an MA60 twin turboprop aircraft and previously announced plans to purchase up to 18 more, as well as 10 Airbus A320s for longer international routes.

The MA60, like the ARJ21, lacks FAA certification, but has had 15 years of flying time in frontier African and Asian markets to build a reputation as a relatively cost-effective short-haul aircraft. It has, however, had its share of safety problems.

Yet markets with a history of MA60 operations should be more receptive to the ARJ21, and – China hopes – eventually its bigger cousin, the C919.
 
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