Coexistence with India - Part III

[zaxcolix]

Yes of course there are two nominated seats for Anglo-Indians in Parliament. Just as there are 12 other nominated seats in Parliament for "eminent persons" from all fields. Sachin Tendulkar and Rekha are among these 12 now (previous persons in that category were Lata Mangeshkar, Ravi Shankar, Shabana Azmi etc). You overlook the fact that it is a privilege given to all these nominated members; but they are not associated with any party symbol. One of the first nominated members from the AI category was Frank Anthony a leading educationist who served for well over 3 decades IIRC right from the Constituent Assembly days. Generally; the nominated members including the AI members were of a higher caliber than the general elected members. Another thing that you need to LEARN: this concept of nominated members was created by the Constituent Assembly of the Republic of India and was incorporated in to the Constitution of India by a vote. That vote was taken in an assembly consisting of members such as Rajendra Prasad, B.R. Ambedkar, G.D.Mavalankar, Vallabhbhai Patel and so many others including one member called Nehru.

I hope you are now better INFORMED AND EDUCATED than before; after reading this post.

Those 2 nominations for Anglo Indians are under Racial and Religious identity. Those other 12 nominations are for people who have served the nation during their distinguished career. How disingenuous of you to conveniently over look that.

Now that you have established yourself as a apologist for the Anglo Indian cause let me take turn to educate you.

1. Nominated candidate will always vote for the party who nominated them. With an amoral president like Parnab Mukerjee no price for guessing which way that articular vote will swing.

2. Let me quote you "nominated members including the AI members were of a higher caliber than the general elected members." LOL ....sorry ...we poor dark yindoos prefer our elected members to your "higher caliber" Anglo Indians.

3. Frank Anthony was first and longtime president of the All India Anglo-Indian Association. ...... might as well GIFT as seat to Mohamand Ali Jinnah...president of Muslim League.

 

[Contrarian]

Oh please!

For every Zaid Hamid in Pakistan, there is an Akhand Bharat loony in India.

There is no Akhand Bharat types anywhere left. If at all, people say they are relived to get rid of extremists. Those days are a long gone when there were calls for Akhand Bharat.

How many Indians on this forum itself have called for it? How many TV anchors have called for it?
Yet there are umpteen number who have called for putting the Pakistani flag on red fort in Pakistani media, on this forum and what not.

It should give you an idea. The difference is in the intensity. Pakistan is so far ahead in this that its foolish to compare.

There is a segment of Indian Hindu society which is just as rabidly anti-Muslim. Both extremists feed on each other.

You are no saints, so spare me the self-righteousness.

Think about this. You say that Indian Hindu society has a segment of rabidly anti-Muslim people, but they dont have a rabidly anti-Sikh, anti-Jain, anti-Budhist,anti-Christian right?

Yet a substantial portion of Pakistan has anti-Christian, anti-Hindu, anti-Ahmadiya,anti-Shia segments. Basically almost everyone non-Muslim, and after that anti-Sunni.

So Pakistan is just breeding hate for everyone out there.

 

[neutral_person]

Oh please!

For every Zaid Hamid in Pakistan, there is an Akhand Bharat loony in India.

There is a segment of Indian Hindu society which is just as rabidly anti-Muslim. Both extremists feed on each other.

You are no saints, so spare me the self-righteousness.

You should see what the author says about Akhand Bharat for 1946 Cabinet Mission Plan. If majorityIndians did not care for Akhand Bharat in 1946 when India was still one country, logically seaking the minority who think of Akhand Bharat has grown much much smaller today. No comparison to Pakistanis who are always talking about capturing Indian lands like Kashmir. You wont even find RSS speeches talking about Akhand Bharat anymore these days (the last decade or so)

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Those 2 nominations for Anglo Indians are under Racial and Religious identity. Those other 12 nominations are for people who have served the nation during their distinguished career. How disingenuous of you to conveniently over look that.

Now that you have established yourself as a apologist for the Anglo Indian cause let me take turn to educate you.

1. Nominated candidate will always vote for the party who nominated them. With an amoral president like Parnab Mukerjee no price for guessing which way that articular vote will swing.

2. Let me quote you "nominated members including the AI members were of a higher caliber than the general elected members." LOL ....sorry ...we poor dark yindoos prefer our elected members to your "higher caliber" Anglo Indians.

3. Frank Anthony was first and longtime president of the All India Anglo-Indian Association. ...... might as well GIFT as seat to Mohamand Ali Jinnah...president of Muslim League.

HaHaHa, I seem to have got your goat alright!!!!
You are determined to remain as ill-informed and ignorant as ever. So go your own way; I am not looking for a "fellow-traveller".

 

[zaxcolix]

THere was a reason for it. They are/were one among many minorities. Parsis are a minority too; why no nominated sets for them? Anglo Indians were in the position of being (if I may say so) an "endangered minority". First of all they were too closely identified with the British (at least in physical terms) hence they could have been vulnerable after the British left. Secondly, they were a minority "born out of inter-marriage". So it was clearly recognised by all in the Constituent Assembly that they were going to be in steadily diminishing numbers; hence should be afforded some protection.

All that having been said; the contribution of Anglo Indians to Free India was immense! They were in the Armed forces in huge numbers. Most of the operating staff of the Indian Railways were from their community. I will go so far as to say that if they had left India with the British; the Railways then could have ground to a halt. They were the backbone of the Police forces everywhere. They ran the Nursing Services all over the country. Their contribution to Education is an "unsung glory". E.G. most of the instructors in IMA and NDA (earlier the JSW in Doon) were AIs. They helped to set up the template of the educational system in India. Do not overlook these facts. Even more so for a "misplaced sense of nationalism".

Jarawa of Andaman are "endangered minority" ....not Anglo Indians who had a free pass to emigrate to England and Canada. After securing 2 Lok sabha seats, a good lot of them did emigrate too for greener pastures.

Let me also educate you about vulnerability after the british left ....500,000 to 1000,000 people died in partation when the british left. Those were the vulnerable population. Maybe Anglo Indian lives are more precious than yindoo lives ?

If the Constituent Assembly had recognized Anglo Indians were diminishing numbers there would have been an time limit for those 'reserved Lok Sabha seats'.....you know the kind Ambedkar had for reservation for the dalits.

If you want to highlight the 'immense' contribution of Anglo Indians to India also take credit for the 'immense' damage done by them by siding with the British. You would see their loyalty to the british costed India much more that their 'immense' contribution.

So you are actually saying that they were huge in the Armed forces used to keep Indians in check. So that is why the seat was gifted away ...in recognition of Jalianwala bhag and the likes.

Racist Churchill said India would collapsed if the British left ....how we have you telling us Indian railways would have collapsed if the Anglo Indians left. .....golly geee......the white mans burden must be a heavy one.

....even the education system would have collapsed but for those Anglo Indians .... ........that is why we have such excellent education system in India...its all thanks to Anglo Indians.

HaHaHa, I seem to have got your goat alright!!!!
You are determined to remain as ill-informed and ignorant as ever. So go your own way; I am not looking for a "fellow-traveller".

....na ..I was hoping for some more 'education' from you ..........after all you did set up the "The template of the educational system in India" ........ don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Shinigami]

zaxcolix, wtf is wrong with you? after reading about all that immense contributions AIs gave us, you dont think they deserve 2 seats?
read this:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/social-issues-current-events/209569-anglo-indians-pakistan-india.html

 

[zaxcolix]

zaxcolix, wtf is wrong with you? after reading about all that immense contributions AIs gave us, you dont think they deserve 2 seats?
read this:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/social-issues-current-events/209569-anglo-indians-pakistan-india.html

LOL .......are you for real ?

Those "immense contribution" that you keep hearing about is called active discrimination in real life. Anglo Indians were loyal servants to the British Raj and has helped keep them in power over the rest of India. Of course the Raj gifted them with juicy postings in the police, officer rank in Military, Railways, Postal ...in short whatever the British Raj operated to keep the Indians under their control.

Its only a minuscule of them like Dr. Annie Basent who worked for betterment of common Indian.

Let me quote for your link..

Many insisted on speaking in English and in a pidgin Hindi. Some decided India was not for them and migrated. The numbers in our churches and community gatherings declined. The Railways, the Post and Telegraph Department, the Indian school system-all those great institutions that had been Anglo-Indian bastions began to acquire a different flavour. The mood was downbeat.

Let me translate that for you ........white good .....brown bad...english good ....hindi bad. They followed the gravy train back to England, Canada, Austraila, South Africa ...etc..

When the system was open to 'Meritocracy' they found that they have no more place in their 'Bastions' i.e. Railways, post, education ..........suddenly it was not enough to be part white to get a job .......you had to be qualified to do your job. No more free rides on racial lines.

They deserve 0 zero seats as gift for their contribution ....I would rather have those seats given to deserving communities like the Jarvas and Parsis.

 

[doppelganger]

THere was a reason for it. They are/were one among many minorities. Parsis are a minority too; why no nominated sets for them? Anglo Indians were in the position of being (if I may say so) an "endangered minority". First of all they were too closely identified with the British (at least in physical terms) hence they could have been vulnerable after the British left. Secondly, they were a minority "born out of inter-marriage". So it was clearly recognised by all in the Constituent Assembly that they were going to be in steadily diminishing numbers; hence should be afforded some protection.

All that having been said; the contribution of Anglo Indians to Free India was immense! They were in the Armed forces in huge numbers. Most of the operating staff of the Indian Railways were from their community. I will go so far as to say that if they had left India with the British; the Railways then could have ground to a halt. They were the backbone of the Police forces everywhere. They ran the Nursing Services all over the country. Their contribution to Education is an "unsung glory". E.G. most of the instructors in IMA and NDA (earlier the JSW in Doon) were AIs. They helped to set up the template of the educational system in India. Do not overlook these facts. Even more so for a "misplaced sense of nationalism".

Sir I agree with you. My father and I both studied in missionary schools. However, I find the reservation on basis of religion and special school and colleges funded by religious bodies and catering mainly to students of one religion in our country to be a very divisive trend that has no place in modern India.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Sir I agree with you. My father and I both studied in missionary schools. However, I find the reservation on basis of religion and special school and colleges funded by religious bodies and catering mainly to students of one religion in our country to be a very divisive trend that has no place in modern India.

In principle, all reservations are bad. However they have been created with a purpose-of allowing some communities some protection. Hence communities across the religious and social spectrum are given this facility, e.g. Khalsa Colleges, Schools for Parsis, even the Ramkrishna Mission apart from the usual ones that we know of. But they need to be tapered off eventually.

BTW, missionary schools are not connected to Anglo Indians.

 

[Mech]

Oh please!

For every Zaid Hamid in Pakistan, there is an Akhand Bharat loony in India.

Akhand Bharat ?

Funny you should mention it, I came across this term first and to date--only in PDF and that by pakistanis.

No one cares for this delusion in India anymore. It was probably a big thing back in the 40's but Its not really a wise move to freeze yourself in the 40's. Move with the time. Grow.

 

[doppelganger]

In principle, all reservations are bad. However they have been created with a purpose-of allowing some communities some protection. Hence communities across the religious and social spectrum are given this facility, e.g. Khalsa Colleges, Schools for Parsis, even the Ramkrishna Mission apart from the usual ones that we know of. But they need to be tapered off eventually.

BTW, missionary schools are not connected to Anglo Indians.

Capt sir, in khalsa college, parsi school, ramkrishna mission, students of other communities study as well. But in Christian schools and colleges, the numbers are almost fully christian, because all you need is a letter of recommendation of the Bishop of you diocese, and that ensures you admission. This happens in professional courses run by various Churches, many with funds from abroad, but on government land, as well.

There is a big racket going on even as we speak about many Christian schools refusing to give underprivileged students admission under the RTE act, saying they are "minority unaided" institutions, and the land they occupy was gifted to them by the British. What is this?

 

[Kayoze]

Fabolous article, Had an Indian written something this sort he would been branded communal ,Right wing fanatic. What author says here is something which RSS has been telling us for years. Indian Left wing fanatic should defintely read this.

Indian leaders chose the path of inclusiveness to combat communal clashes. Without this wise approach, the vengeance of the Hindu who was vanquished for centuries in his own motherland could have caused immense bloodshed. Imagine a Muslim population whose places of worship are attacked and destroyed for centuries, whose holies are repeatedly insulted for generations and then they rise to freedom and power! What massacres of revenge will you expect?

Do we inherit the sins and liabilities of our ancestors? Yes, because we inherit their virtues and their assets. Like other conquerors, our medieval ancestors ruled their subjects against their will. Hindus never went out of the subcontinent to invade or rule others, while invasion and domination were genetic to Muslims. They preferred to dominate rather than befriend.

 

[bronxbull]

What does it matter if the Hindu conquests were in the subcontinent or outside. The fact is that Indian history is replete with conquests of various kingdoms over each other. The only reason Hindus didn't venture out is because there was enough trouble at home to go a-hunting far away. When opportunity presented, Hindus (Cholas) also colonized SE Asia.

It's hard to respect imbecile authors who blabber on politically expedient platitudes without knowing history.

You are funny,

People go on conquests because there is not enough prosperity at home.

India got attacked because it is an awesome place with all resources available whereas Central Asia is a desert.

 

[Developereo]

People go on conquests because there is not enough prosperity at home.

Warriors go where the fighting is easiest. If there are ripe pickings at home, why bother waging war far away?

Empires extend outward only after they have consolidated the home base.

 

[bronxbull]

No,Empires expand purely for economic reasons.

The Cholas tried to dominate the Oceans because their traders needed security and they saw opportunity.