Clueless on China

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am not saying you said that....just removing a popular belief on this forum that China keeps the US economy afloat.

Then tell it to someone who believes it, because if you read my posts above, I clearly don't.

 

[footmarks]

I see Indians are soooo happy to see Chinese people being hurt.

If the Economy crashes it will be ordinary people who suffer. Why would you want that?

Who will cry when China dies? Maybe 1.3 billion people will cry.

This is why China loves Pakistan, and NOT India.

You misunderstood me competely bro. The "who will cry when you die" is a motivational book's title, dont take it literally dude.

This currency and debt debate strarted when some chinese poster boasted on how China is keeping US economy afloat by providing Trillions of $ in debt. If that poster was not you, this entire debate is not directed towards you. But anyway, this debate is better than useless comparisons as in whose country is better/stronger/most important.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You misunderstood me competely bro. The "who will cry when you die" is a motivational book's title, dont take it literally dude.

This currency and debt debate strarted when some chinese poster boasted on how China is keeping US economy afloat by providing Trillions of $ in debt. If that poster was not you, this entire debate is not directed towards you. But anyway, this debate is better than useless comparisons as in whose country is better/stronger/most important.

That was not me, I have never seen that debate before.

Regardless I hope someone will cry if China dies...

You can be sure that if ordinary Indian people get hurt then I will be very upset too... because at the end of the day we are all humans and we all share the same Earth.

China will most certainly cry if India dies... would India do the same for us? Given what you said in the previous post it seems that you are excited about the prospect of China collapsing.

 

[footmarks]

That was not me, I have never seen that debate before.

Regardless I hope someone will cry if China dies...

You can be sure that if ordinary Indian people get hurt then I will be very upset too... because at the end of the day we are all humans and we all share the same Earth.

China will most certainly cry if India dies... would India do the same for us? Given what you said in the previous post it seems that you are excited about the prospect of China collapsing.

As I said, u completely misunderstood me. Anyways, countries never die, ideologies do. There is more to China than economy. So, dont cry baby, China will survive, and grow. My best wishes to you. we are discussing a scenario here, not plotting China's downfall. Take a chill pill, relax.

 

[mike05]

As I said, u completely misunderstood me. Anyways, countries never die, ideologies do. There is more to China than economy. So, dont cry baby, China will survive, and grow. My best wishes to you. we are discussing a scenario here, not plotting China's downfall. Take a chill pill, relax.

Nice, lets all get a beer and wait for the world cup to start

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So, dont cry baby.

Why the need for the added insult?

Even after I complimented you and said that Chinese will always be sad if ordinary Indian people get hurt.

 

[footmarks]

Why the need for the added insult?

Even after I complimented you and said that Chinese will always be sad if ordinary Indian people get hurt.

No offences bro, neither it was intended to insult you.It was just out of love, as in for your younger brother who is hurt by something you said. You appear to be very sensitive and emotional man. dont read between the lines, its nothing in there. Love you brother.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

No offences bro, neither it was intended to insult you.It was just out of love, as in for your younger brother who is hurt by something you said. You appear to be very sensitive and emotional man. dont read between the lines, its nothing in there. Love you brother.

OK let us agree to disagree.

Prosperity and happiness for all Asian brothers! (Including India too ).

 

[lhuang]

How about we just give everyone a hug =]

 

[oceanx]

Generally when someone is banned/suspended, the exchange ends. However, most of the bans/suspensions are temporary (I speak from experience). Even if it's permanent, you can come back with another screen name - few home users have static IPs to begin with (far be it from me to enourage it though - wait out the week and you get more work done anyway).

Anyhow, here we go:

Haha your loyalty is so cheap you cannot wait to hurt the people of the country who's flag you put on your profile.

First of all, left flag - country of origin; right flag - country of domicile/residence/citizenship. While some don't, many here (including yours truly) adhere to that principle. "Loyalty" cannot be taken for granted just from two little squares under a screen name on a website.

But if you really care to know, I can spell it out for you in simple terms: "real Canadian" or not - I pledge my allegience to Canada. And I hold an abiding kindred empathy, good will, and maintain the deepest bond to the Chinese nation and people.

Moreover, I do not base "loyalty" on how Canada views my "allegience" or China views my "bond". A nation state is not my keeper.

If America does not pay back the debt, who do you think suffers? Ordinary Chinese people.

You're so eager to hurt them, aren't you?

What's "hurt" and what's "short-term pain for long-term gain"? This is not to say I know the answer. Simply, I see this glut of unredeemable US$ as the new "opium". This is not to say Yankees are "malicious" as the British drug-pushers, although to be completely honest, looking back I don't even entirely blame the opium pushers. Back then opium was a legit commodity. But the Manchu Honchos chose to burn English merchants' stock as opposed to doing the hard work and banning it domestically ...

Clearly no yankees mounted a cannon at you to sell stuff for IOUs ... and much of it can't be avoided. And any dodo will say that it's just the price one pays to "get in the game", to be a playa in the "international system", to "industrialize" ...

I don't dispute that.

Neither do I dispute that the opium tincture of yore, used judiciously and purposefully, allowed you to beat pain and to function. Nor does anyone dispute that if used excessively, it simply lets you escape reality. What makes you think these electronic IOUs are any different?

On a deeper level, I am far from the only one who is increasingly doubting the PRC's "Pearl River Delta Model" as a way forward ... but that's for another time.

Let me ask you: can you buy anything, any "real technology" with it? Heck, you can't even buy 20% of some 4th grade American oil company with your so-called "People's Trillion" ... let's say America will sell a piece to you just as they allegedly "sell 10%" to the ruling Saudis, and the "Chinese people" consequently own a piece of America? Please insert your favourite laughing emoticon. Well we know for a fact that the "Chinese people" can't redeem the IOUs, but surely that hasn't stopped the "connected" from quietly turning the "electronic assets" into real assets in L.A. ...

So maybe they own a piece of America after all. Saudi "people", Chinese "people", Russian "people", and African "people" all toghether share the pride of 49% permanent, nominal, minority ownership of America, happy?

Indian "people" of course own the Swiss Banks according to some news source ...

Look, on a side note, I personally doubt you are even from the mainland despite the flags you wear. It's inconceivable that any mainland cyber warriors (in any stripe/persuasion/colour) would call the A-bombs over Japan "genocide" as you did in some other thread. I will not elaborate on this further ...

Anyways, am I "eager to hurt" or you are rather quick to dispense "tall hats"? Looks like you are prone to "cry", too, dragon ... it's only the internet you know ...

By the way I also oppose ANY use of force regarding Taiwan... and I will not mind if they choose independence at all. Chinese people who "pretend to be Canadians" such as yourself will never understand this.

Despite the "faux Canadien"'s distinct lack of mental capacity, he agrees with you here at least, okay sensei?

Also you clearly don't understand how finance works, if a country does not pay its debt... then it's credit rating will be downgraded and it will be forced to pay a much higher rate for any future loans which is disastrous for a country that borrows so much. Who ends up suffering? Ordinary people, who you don't seem to care about.

No I don't have a "Wall Street" degree. But I have passing knowledge on how opioids work ...

You can pick it up where we left off when you return.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

An amazing decent discussion has been turned to rubbish with all this sidetracking.

We all know that US and China need each other for trade purposes and keeping the world stable (A dormant superpower is better then a aggressive one no?). So all this currency dumping nonsense will never happen.

Top 3 holders of American Debt as of May 2010
are
China 867.7 billion
Japan 786.7 billion
UK 350. billion

How does USA compare to other countries
Public debt compared
.
Country (% of GDP)
.
Argentina 51
.
Australia 15.4
.
Austria 58.8
.
Brazil 40.7
.
Canada 62.3
.
China 15.7
.
Denmark 21.8
.
France 64.4
.
Germany 62.6
.
India 59
.
Italy 103.7
.
Japan 170.4
.
Korea, South 27.2
.
Netherlands 57.3
.
Russia 6.8
.
Spain 38.5
.
Sweden 36.5
.
United Kingdom 47.2

Pakistan 49
.
United States 60.8
.
SOURCE CIA
.
DATALINK https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/
Public debt:
52.9% of GDP (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 47
39.7% of GDP (2008 est.)
note: data cover only what the United States Treasury denotes as "Debt Held by the Public," which includes all debt instruments issued by the Treasury that are owned by non-US Government entities. The data include Treasury debt held by foreign entities. The data exclude debt issued by individual US states, as well as intra-governmental debt. Intra-governmental debt consists of Treasury borrowings from surpluses in the trusts for Federal Social Security, Federal Employees, Hospital Insurance (Medicare and Medicaid), Disability and Unemployment, and several other smaller trusts. If data for Intra-government debt were added, "Gross Debt" would increase by about 30% of GDP.

I hate to rain on you fellows parade but the USA is just not in that bad of a shape, compared to other countries.

 

[chauism]

Top 3 holders of American Debt as of May 2010
are
China 867.7 billion
Japan 786.7 billion
UK 350. billion

How does USA compare to other countries
Public debt compared
.
Country (% of GDP)
.
Argentina 51
.
Australia 15.4
.
Austria 58.8
.
Brazil 40.7
.
Canada 62.3
.
China 15.7
.
Denmark 21.8
.
France 64.4
.
Germany 62.6
.
India 59
.
Italy 103.7
.
Japan 170.4
.
Korea, South 27.2
.
Netherlands 57.3
.
Russia 6.8
.
Spain 38.5
.
Sweden 36.5
.
United Kingdom 47.2

Pakistan 49
.
United States 60.8
.
SOURCE CIA
.
DATALINK https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/
Public debt:
52.9% of GDP (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 47
39.7% of GDP (2008 est.)
note: data cover only what the United States Treasury denotes as "Debt Held by the Public," which includes all debt instruments issued by the Treasury that are owned by non-US Government entities. The data include Treasury debt held by foreign entities. The data exclude debt issued by individual US states, as well as intra-governmental debt. Intra-governmental debt consists of Treasury borrowings from surpluses in the trusts for Federal Social Security, Federal Employees, Hospital Insurance (Medicare and Medicaid), Disability and Unemployment, and several other smaller trusts. If data for Intra-government debt were added, "Gross Debt" would increase by about 30% of GDP.

I hate to rain on you fellows parade but the USA is just not in that bad of a shape, compared to other countries.

You should also see the external debt.
List of countries by external debt

Yes, US is not the worst, and so far it is still sustainable. However US alone owes quarter of the worlds total external debts. For the debt that size, there are not many creditors in the world can help US finance its debts.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Generally when someone is banned/suspended, the exchange ends. However, most of the bans/suspensions are temporary (I speak from experience). Even if it's permanent, you can come back with another screen name - few home users have static IPs to begin with (far be it from me to enourage it though - wait out the week and you get more work done anyway).

What's "hurt" and what's "short-term pain for long-term gain"? This is not to say I know the answer. Simply, I see this glut of unredeemable US$ as the new "opium".

No I don't have a "Wall Street" degree. But I have passing knowledge on how opioids work ...

You can pick it up where we left off when you return.

Just when we were all getting along so well, Chinese, Indians, etc... then you come along and revive the thread and restart the argument.

Well done?

What happened before, was that you were so eager for America to NOT pay back the debts they owe to us, not just in Government bonds but also in terms of our currency reserves.

That would end up hurting "ordinary Chinese people" who have nothing to do with this political argument, which I think is pretty sad.

Also, by refusing to pay their debts or "defaulting", the credit rating of the USA will be hurt just like what happened to Greece when it was in danger of defaulting. That would end up hurting "ordinary American people" who also have nothing to do with this political argument.

Maybe it was just your grasp of Economics that was the problem, but I'll clarify where I stand on other points.

- I believe Taiwan should be able to choose whatever it wants.
- I believe Tibet should have more autonomy and freedom.
- I believe that peace is better than war, and I don't want to see any innocent people getting hurt regardless of whether they are Chinese, American, Indian, etc.

China is doing well now, why on Earth would we rock the boat? It doesn't make any sense at all for us to start a conflict when our Economy is doing so well, we're not going to take any chances by potentially hurting our economic growth.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You should also see the external debt.
List of countries by external debt

Yes, US is not the worst, and so far it is still sustainable. However US alone owes quarter of the worlds total external debts. For the debt that size, there are not many creditors in the world can help US finance its debts.

American debt is above 13 trillion and growing fast, which is starting to become a problem.

I think the Obama administration has the right idea though. They need to put more effort back into manufacturing for long-term gains, and a healthier trade balance.

America being the world's consumer, and China being the worlds manufacturer, does have a positive side though. It makes it impossible for us to go to war with each other because of the economic interdependence of supply+consumption.

China needs America because no other market is big enough to buy all our goods, and America in return needs China because no other country can supply such a large amount of goods at such a good price. There is also the creditor/debtor relationship which works in a similar fashion, i.e. only America can supply enough Treasury bonds for us to store as reserves, which is why we are buying so much American debt and American currency, because there is no where else that is big enough.

Believe me China doesn't want to have so many US dollars in currency reserves (it's dangerous for us), but like I said there is no other option. It's economic interdependence.

 

[gowthamraj]

I think the path of the thread is dancing