Clinton to Iran: Show that nuclear arms not sought

[Harry_Thomason]

Iran has no moral right for it either, it would use the security of nuclear weapons to kill Israeli women and children through Hamas, moral right is gone.

Palestinians have every right to fight against occupants, and while certain nations let Israel do whatever it wants (including genocide, and continuing murders of Palestinian woman and children for over 60 years now), they also decline Palestinians right to defend themselves.

Do I support killing of "Israeli women and children"? No, but I absolutely support occupied nations right to defend themselves, and if those "Israeli women and children" are settling in occupied territories, what do they expect? Flowers and candle-light dinners from Palestinians?

The obvious option has been to take the western deal of opening every facility the IAEA wants to inspect, and take the deal of trading its enriched uranium to the west for reactor fuel. This would set Western fears at ease, open the door for lucrative trading, and Iran would still have a nuclear power program operating.

IAEA is monitoring every nuclear facility 24/7, however if demands are opening every conventional military facility, then no one in their right mind would allow that.

Trading "enriched uranium to the west for reactor fuel" deal was already made with Turkey and Brazil, but US sabotaged it, and El Baradei angrily mentioned it proved US didnt wanted deal to happen in the first place.

 

[Harry_Thomason]

IF your military didn't put anti air defence next to kindergartens and make intelligence relays of high school gyms we wouldn't have this problem.

Aside from that it is likely US strikes will take out major utilities as a preventative measure. Water, power, gas. The US will not strike cities when possible, but of course we cannot use kid gloves against Iran, civilians will die as paramilitary takes refuge among them, perhaps many from disease.

Basically what I hear is that you won't except outside enrichment and won't allow unfettered access for the IAEA, your justifications for such are irrelevant to me. Alright, then start building a shelter.

If we don't strike first it will be Israel who does, either way we will get involved in some form or another.

We already saw fake "Iraq has WMD" excuses before, now the same FAKE excuses are used against Iran, without ANY evidence as usual.

Iran 100% cooperates with IAEA within signed treaty frameworks, but since US with alies installed their puppet Amano in charge, he started using same fake allegations as "credible" (without any proof), which El Baradei and other previous inspectors dismissed as "without shred of evidence" or even "planted".

So yes, if you agree any country should be attacked based on non-proven allegations, then I wish the same to you - one day US wont be the strongest military country in the World. All empires fall, and then someone might treat you like you treat others now. You know what I will say? Well deserved, and about time.

 

[Solomon2]

Palestinians have every right to fight against occupants -

Best to stick to the facts, Harry. Both Arabs and Jews were obligated under the terms of the British Mandate (terms approved by the Ottoman Caliph in its predecessor, the Treaty of Sevres) to respect each other's civil and property rights in the ex-Ottoman territories that came under their political rule. Before and during the Mandate Jews purchased land in Palestine while without cause the Arabs started kicked the Jews to enrich the followers of local autocrats; when Arabs in Palestine fought against the nascent Jewish state or departed they forfeited their civil and property rights under Ottoman law as rebels.

Nonetheless Israel gave Arabs who fled the opportunity to return if they forswore violence and swore loyalty to the state and over 20% did so; today's "Palestinian refugees" are descendants of those who refused to do so. And you'll note the proposals of the anti-Zionists never include Jews returning to their former lands, property, and civil rights in the middle east, do they?

So the bottom line is that even the banner of anti-Zionism that Iran waves about as its justification for terror and war is an unjust cause. Repeating the murderous slogans of generations Israel-haters makes it no more just, does it?

 

[Harry_Thomason]

Best to stick to the facts, Harry. Both Arabs and Jews were obligated under the terms of the British Mandate (terms approved by the Ottoman Caliph in its predecessor, the Treaty of Sevres) to respect each other's civil and property rights in the ex-Ottoman territories that came under their political rule. Before and during the Mandate Jews purchased land in Palestine while without cause the Arabs started kicked the Jews to enrich the followers of local autocrats; when Arabs in Palestine fought against the nascent Jewish state or departed they forfeited their civil and property rights under Ottoman law as rebels.

Nonetheless Israel gave Arabs who fled the opportunity to return if they forswore violence and swore loyalty to the state and over 20% did so; today's "Palestinian refugees" are descendants of those who refused to do so. And you'll note the proposals of the anti-Zionists never include Jews returning to their former lands, property, and civil rights in the middle east, do they?

So the bottom line is that even the banner of anti-Zionism that Iran waves about as its justification for terror and war is an unjust cause. Repeating the murderous slogans of generations Israel-haters makes it no more just, does it?

First of all, you missing huge chunks of history and trying to picture occupants in a "good light", but facts are as they are - regardless how zionists may want to twist them:

1. Palestinian lands are occupied by Israel. Land which was bought by Jews were only 7% of initial '47 borders.
2. There was genocide done by Jews, as well as expulsion of natives from their lands, and 60 years later, Apartheid like conditions are still in place.

Until this is fixed - there will be no peace, and Israel doesnt want it. Peace would mean returning the lands, compensations to Palestinians, as well as guilty of crimes against humanity to be judged in the ICC. Israel will never agree to that willingly, therefore peace wont happen, unless US will stop vetoing and UN will be able to do something about it.

 

[Solomon2]

1. Palestinian lands are occupied by Israel. Land which was bought by Jews were only 7% of initial '47 borders.

To make such a claim one must include state lands that first belonged to the Ottomans, then the British, and never fell under the ownership of Arabs.

There was genocide done by Jews, as well as expulsion of natives from their lands -

Genocide never happened. A good history of what few expulsions there were is given in Benny Morris' books.

and 60 years later, Apartheid like conditions are still in place.

I could go on and on but you get the message: rather than discuss the misdeeds of the Zionists why aren't you discussing the misdeeds of truly genocidal Arab rejectionists?

Until this is fixed - there will be no peace, and Israel doesnt want it. Peace would mean returning the lands -

Really? Consider Pakistan. Having kicked out its Jews, Pakistan still pursues them and their descendants in their new haven, Israel. There are too many uncivilized people (people who vow not to follow civil law making each citizen equal under it) who find it too convenient to hate Jews; that's one of the primary reasons Israel is such a necessity.

 

[somebozo]

2. There was genocide done by Jews, as well as expulsion of natives from their lands, and 60 years later, Apartheid like conditions are still in place.

Actually the Jews did not expel the Palestineans and Arabs neither they had the power to do so being minority. the Arabs / Palestinenans themselves led by their crooked Pan-Arabist leaders voluntarily left from their lands to seek refugee in neighboring countries on fairy tales of liberating Palestine in 24 hours. What they effectively did is left vast swathes of land for take over by newly established Israeli state and build immediate fortifications.

 

[IranZamin]

Iran has no legal right to nuclear weapons. It signed its legal right away for dual use equipment under the npt.

Before Iran had any legal right to pursue nuclear weapons, it would have to leave the npt, and get rid of all dual use equipment it got under the plan and materials+ equipment derived from such. Basically start from scratch.

That is just a hypothetical, in reality if Iran left the npt (we both know they wouldn't give up the dual use equipment) the US would gather up a coalition and come down on them like a ton of bricks whether we got UNSC support or not.

If Iran has no intention to obtain nuclear weapons then their course of action is obvious, and has long been obvious.

If Iran intends to obtain nuclear weapons then I recommend those who live in Iran on this forum start building bomb shelters under their house, store purified water, an electric generator or two, food, etc.

If basic utilities in the cities are cut off then you will have a backup to wait in safety until the new provisional Iranian government gets the basic utilities back up and running.

Tough talk from an American internet warrior. Wake up sheep . your tax money is being used to finance Israeli jets,weapons. You are fighting your wars for Israel and not your own country. US is a great country hijacked by a few a$$holes

 

[lem34]

Tough talk from an American internet warrior. Wake up sheep . your tax money is being used to finance Israeli jets,weapons. You are fighting your wars for Israel and not your own country. US is a great country hijacked by a few a$$holes

Israel will fight it's wars and spill American blood

 

[PERSIAN GOD KING]

USA is run by terrorisists , as long as they have nukes no one is safe.
I prefer Iran to have the nuclear capability and not have the nuke, if we ever need it very bad then we will make it.

 

[Harry_Thomason]

To make such a claim one must include state lands that first belonged to the Ottomans, then the British, and never fell under the ownership of Arabs.

Nope, thats 7% of '47 Israel's borders.

Genocide never happened. A good history of what few expulsions there were is given in Benny Morris' books.

"Sure", and holocaust never happened either, right? Deir Yassin doesnt ring the bell? Or hundreds of other villages and small towns?

Actually it happened in my country too, Jews with Russian partisans in WWII did genocide against Kaniuku settlement, Yitzhak Arad participated there as well.

I could go on and on but you get the message: rather than discuss the misdeeds of the Zionists why aren't you discussing the misdeeds of truly genocidal Arab rejectionists?

We could talk about Arabs, but thats not the topic - we are talking about crimes committed by Israel and Zionists.

Really? Consider Pakistan. Having kicked out its Jews, Pakistan still pursues them and their descendants in their new haven, Israel. There are too many uncivilized people (people who vow not to follow civil law making each citizen equal under it) who find it too convenient to hate Jews; that's one of the primary reasons Israel is such a necessity.

If you have problem with Pakistan (or Nazi Germany, or whatever) - deal with them, NOT with Palestinians, whose lands Zionists took away and expelled natives from there. Like Iran president said (Jews are happy in Iran, just so you know), "why Palestinians has to suffer for what Nazis did?".

 

[punkbuster]

Nope, thats 7% of '47 Israel's borders.
"Sure", and holocaust never happened either, right? Deir Yassin doesnt ring the bell? Or hundreds of other villages and small towns?

Great point, I think it's obvious that Stern Gang and Irgun Zvai Leumi were following the same agenda as their leaders, It is also worth mentioning that David Ben Gurion who was one of the first and famous Zionist leaders, opposed any kind of deal with Arabs in 40s and put the rest of these militias into the IDF right after the 1948 war (The creation of State of Israel, where these groups supposedly disbanded!). As you see nothing has changed, the use of force is still in place and killings/massacre like "Gaza massacre" still happens.

"Pushing by force creates Resistance"

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran has no moral right for it either, it would use the security of nuclear weapons to kill Israeli women and children through Hamas, moral right is gone.

The obvious option has been to take the western deal of opening every facility the IAEA wants to inspect, and take the deal of trading its enriched uranium to the west for reactor fuel. This would set Western fears at ease, open the door for lucrative trading, and Iran would still have a nuclear power program operating.

well Israel is the last one to talk about the moral right , by the way by opting not to retaliate with WMD when Iranian cities were targeted with WMD Iran shows that it is more responsible than any of the countries that today cry moral highs.

and also your solution mean nothing Iran agreed to the deal that Turkey and Brazil made for swapping enriched uranium with fuel and the one who angrily reject the deal the next day was not Iran it was mrs. Clinton .it's not even 2 years and you already forgot that ? I didn't knew Americans get dementia at such low ages .
and can you show me a nuclear facility in Iran that IAEA is not allowed to inspect ? don't tell parchin as its not a nuclear facility but a military facility and in 2004 IAEA inspected every where inside it an they found nothing and right now they wan to inspect it for the same claims that they inspected it previously and even they don't know they must ask about it from our military not our Atomic Energy Agency . even despite these facts Iran told you IAEA that it answer all these fake allegations if you categorize these claims and ask it one by one and after we answered each category you close the file on that category of fake allegations for ever and again you yourselves didn't accepted such offer.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Best to stick to the facts, Harry. Both Arabs and Jews were obligated under the terms of the British Mandate (terms approved by the Ottoman Caliph in its predecessor, the Treaty of Sevres) to respect each other's civil and property rights in the ex-Ottoman territories that came under their political rule. Before and during the Mandate Jews purchased land in Palestine while without cause the Arabs started kicked the Jews to enrich the followers of local autocrats; when Arabs in Palestine fought against the nascent Jewish state or departed they forfeited their civil and property rights under Ottoman law as rebels.

Nonetheless Israel gave Arabs who fled the opportunity to return if they forswore violence and swore loyalty to the state and over 20% did so; today's "Palestinian refugees" are descendants of those who refused to do so. And you'll note the proposals of the anti-Zionists never include Jews returning to their former lands, property, and civil rights in the middle east, do they?

So the bottom line is that even the banner of anti-Zionism that Iran waves about as its justification for terror and war is an unjust cause. Repeating the murderous slogans of generations Israel-haters makes it no more just, does it?

it seems that in your history books they forgot to add the part when it was Israeli extremist who start terrorizing Arabs by planet bomb and killing them every where they could because aparently they were chosen people and that land was given to them by God.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Actually the Jews did not expel the Palestineans and Arabs neither they had the power to do so being minority. the Arabs / Palestinenans themselves led by their crooked Pan-Arabist leaders voluntarily left from their lands to seek refugee in neighboring countries on fairy tales of liberating Palestine in 24 hours. What they effectively did is left vast swathes of land for take over by newly established Israeli state and build immediate fortifications.

not exactly they left those land because it become a battlefield and they had to leave it to stay alive , by the way there are also cases of expelling Arabs and also there are case when they were attacked and put under pressure to leave their land like what happened in Deir Yassin massacre.

this reasons are from a declassified IDF document

A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947/- 1/6/1948" was dated June 30, 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":
Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements...... (... especially -the fall of large neighbouring centers).
Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6]

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

To make such a claim one must include state lands that first belonged to the Ottomans, then the British, and never fell under the ownership of Arabs.

Genocide never happened. A good history of what few expulsions there were is given in Benny Morris' books.



I could go on and on but you get the message: rather than discuss the misdeeds of the Zionists why aren't you discussing the misdeeds of truly genocidal Arab rejectionists?

Really? Consider Pakistan. Having kicked out its Jews, Pakistan still pursues them and their descendants in their new haven, Israel. There are too many uncivilized people (people who vow not to follow civil law making each citizen equal under it) who find it too convenient to hate Jews; that's one of the primary reasons Israel is such a necessity.

You have long been known for your perfect stated lies. You will leave Palestine all Palestine sooner or later. Thats how it works with us.