Clinton lectures Pakistan, Pakistanis lecture Clinton

[Mirage2000]

This is the problem with you guys, you cannot digest truthful observations and honesty. Dude, it's not me but the world which is doubtful of Pakistan's seriousness. And why should I give it a thought as a Pakistani, are Pakistanis less in numbers in this forum?

And also, your ridiculing me by saying that I'm sitting in India and reading Indian newspapers doesn't bother me, you proved how anti you are to a justified conversation.

Oh! and puhleeezzzz, I am not anti Pak and Pro US. Being a Think Tank, you should have known.

Try adding something constructive in the thread instead of Trolling and Pakistan bashing. The thread is about an event in Clintons visit to Pakistan,try to stick to topic if you can't,do us a favour and leave the thread.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Clinton confesses to be wrestling with the issue that the U.S. is doing a great deal for Pakistan but still is not regarded as a friend. She has discovered that many Pakistanis have the opinion that there are two things the U.S. must never do: assist Pakistan in its struggle or leave it alone. Confronted with that kind of schizophrenic mind-set, she clearly believes that psychological therapy is more important than diplomatic niceties.

Substitute Pakistan and Pakistanis in place of Clinton and the US and you have Pakistani views of the US.

Arrogance amongst Americans is not limited to the SoS obviously.

 

[adrenalin]

Well Mr that such a stupid statement from you that Pakistan is Pakistan because of Us Aid actually you dont know much about the fact and our economics you just came into thread to impose your stupid belief on us that US has done everything for us,our relationship with US has always been more disadvantageous to us.

I wont go in Past,take recent American war on terror(WOT) which has ruined our economy

Total expenses of war on terror from 2001 to 2008:US$ 36 Billion

What US has given us from 2001 to 2008 :US$ 10 Billion

Net Deficite from 2001 to 2008 :US$ 26 Billion

So what favor US did to us?
on the contrary they ruined economy of Pakistan which was already a poor country.

The above figures do not include the huge expenses which we have incurred on the two operations which have been conducted in this year(operation Rah-e-Nijat and operation Rah-e-Rast)

Plus these figures also dont include the damage caused to properties of people and the relief given by government to the familes of people killed in almost 350+ blasts and suicide attacks that happened in our country since 2001 due to WOT.

Even if we leave the year 2009 and add the aid promised in KLB which is given as if US were doing a big favour to us.

Net loss till end of 2008 :US$ 26 Billion

Promised Aid with conditions which may not be received in full if US sanctions us, :US$ 7.5 Billion

Net Loss after adding total US$ 7.5 Billion :US$ 18.5 Billion
(Excluding year 2009's expenses and expenses in coming 5 years in which this aid will total to US$ 7.5 Billion.)

Toat Aid given+promissed :US$ 17.5 Billion

Read more on this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...se-aid-us-worth-5-1-billion-since-2006-a.html

See that even if we add the entire promised and given Aid the loss we suffered(leaving expenses of 2009) is more than the total of given and Promissed Aid,so where is US favour?

As for China it has given us what we want from it from very begaining it always helps us unlike US which does it when intrests come in,China is allweather friend not fairweather friend.
we know what we have got from them they were more better friends than US and were more Trustworthy ally even though WOT was'nt started by China still its giving us security equipment etc for that too.America's is'nt even giving us sufficient equipment for its WOT.

BTW you Indians dont have to teach us who is our friend and who is not?Hell why dont you mind your own business.

I might have got the math wrong in terms of dollars and I am certainly not here to teach anyone anything. I am trying to have a justified discussion. And well, choosing friends is Pakistan's own right as a Sovereign country. And oh! what's now happening in Pakistan is your own creation. Why did you side with US when Bush warned Pakistan "You are either with us, or against us". Where were your morals then and where were your All Weather friends?
What Hillary Clinton said was long overdue.
But as Hillary Clinton said, it's not India but terrorism that poses a major threat to Pakistan. Also, I agree when she said, that minus the terrorism, Pakistan's economy would skyrocket. So, where is the question of trolling and Pakistan bashing. I believe Pakistan has the capability to go heights if terrorism can be nullified. But the will seems to be lacking from people in power.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

The mentality of Pakistani posters never seizes to amaze me. Looks like every day I login here, I see a new color. Now just have a look at the number of poster cursing Mrs. Clinton for her 'acidulous' remarks on Pakistan. And most of them belong to the elite group that went ga ga over her, when she 'confessed' that US policy about Pakistan was flawed in some respects & US was in & out of Pakistan too many times. Some posters were even asking if she was a Pakistani by origin

So what's up? If she was speaking truth then, she is speaking truth now & has to be taken equally seriously. Just because she is speaking that you don't want to hear does not mean that she deserves to be chastised here.

 

[Nomad]

Mirage2000;533156]Well Mr that such a stupid statement from you that Pakistan is Pakistan because of Us Aid actually you dont know much about the fact and our economics you just came into thread to impose your stupid belief on us that US has done everything for us,our relationship with US has always been more disadvantageous to us.

Since you seem to be a scholar in your economics (which I hope is like economics every where else) I have a few questions you can help me on.

I wont go in Past,take recent American war on terror(WOT) which has ruined our economy

Total expenses of war on terror from 2001 to 2008:US$ 36 Billion

This figure has been bandied about, but please can you give me a breakdown on these numbers. What I want to know is what is your breakdown of the $36 billion number, at least to the nearest $100 million.

What US has given us from 2001 to 2008 :US$ 10 Billion

On top of everything the GOP has claimed as expenses.

Net Deficite from 2001 to 2008 :US$ 26 Billion

This is called fuzzy logic. You may be able to fool all of your countrymen all of the time... but some of us obstinate a$$holes are a little more difficult.

So what favor US did to us?
on the contrary they ruined economy of Pakistan which was already a poor country.

My heart is weeping but my eyes cannot seem to shed any tears.

The above figures do not include the huge expenses which we have incurred on the two operations which have been conducted in this year(operation Rah-e-Nijat and operation Rah-e-Rast)

The two operations you have done this year is for the salvation of your country. The operation Rah-e-whatever was to get even with the people who killed Benazir, who made numerous attempts against Musharaf etc. However you have made no attempt until today to move against the people who attack us. Your fellow countrymen call them the " Good Taliban".

Plus these figures also dont include the damage caused to properties of people and the relief given by government to the familes of people killed in almost 350+ blasts and suicide attacks that happened in our country since 2001 due to WOT.

Even if we leave the year 2009 and add the aid promised in KLB which is given as if US were doing a big favour to us.

Net loss till end of 2008 :US$ 26 Billion

Promised Aid with conditions which may not be received in full if US sanctions us, :US$ 7.5 Billion

Net Loss after adding total US$ 7.5 Billion :US$ 18.5 Billion
(Excluding year 2009's expenses and expenses in coming 5 years in which this aid will total to US$ 7.5 Billion.)

Toat Aid given+promissed :US$ 17.5 Billion

So by my understanding , for the $10 billion we have given you so far on top of all your expenses (that may have been double or triple billed), you have still provided a safe haven for the people who wish to harm us, as long as they do not harm you.

Read more on this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...se-aid-us-worth-5-1-billion-since-2006-a.html

I do not need a web site, i just need someone with your deep understanding of economics to 'splain it to me.

See that even if we add the entire promised and given Aid the loss we suffered(leaving expenses of 2009) is more than the total of given and Promissed Aid,so where is US favour?

Please use the fuzzy logic with your fellow countrymen, the madrrassa graduates may buy it but I wont.

As for China it has given us what we want from it from very begaining it always helps us unlike US which does it when intrests come in,China is allweather friend not fairweather friend.
we know what we have got from them they were more better friends than US and were more Trustworthy ally even though WOT was'nt started by China still its giving us security equipment etc for that too.America's is'nt even giving us sufficient equipment for its WOT.

Please tell me O hallowed economic expert, what in dollars, or yuan or rimimbi, your all weather friend has done for you for the past eight years.

BTW you Indians dont have to teach us who is our friend and who is not?Hell why dont you mind your own business.

I being a neutral party is looking for an economics experts advice.

 

[Awesome]

Americans are pissed that Pakistanis have started to reject their aid The lender always wants to keep the borrower addicted to its aid...

Her best bet is to support the American stooges in our leadership and thats what she is doing. What the Americans don't realize is that they need a Pro-Pakistani policy, not a Pro-Stooge policy, because these stooges are highly unpopular and America would become further unpopular by showcasing itself as an extension of these corrupt feudal lords.

Pakistani politics needs to free itself from the AAA (Allah, Army and America) altogether. Each A's proponents are busy trying to win over the other. These lectures are meaningless since the baseline from where the Pakistanis begin to view each of these As is that they want to grab more power within Pakistan. That is the established baseline.

 

[moha199]

there we go first video I'm not sure if it share the title but still, i guess its the post to watch the video for our most of the members
http://pakistanherald.com/Program/Bolta-Pakistan-October-30-2009-Dr-Moeed-Pirzada-2012

 

[moha199]

Clinton grilled in Pakistan -- latimes.com

 

[moha199]

Clinton Gets an Earful of Pakistani Defiance - WSJ.com

 

[Mirage2000]

But as Hillary Clinton said, it's not India but terrorism that poses a major threat to Pakistan. Also, I agree when she said, that minus the terrorism, Pakistan's economy would skyrocket.

Wrong again Clinton said if Pakistan and India solve their issues Pakistans eonomy will sky rocket.She did'nt mentioned terrorism in this,
Peaceful relations with India would skyrocket Pak’s economy: Clinton
Are you here to deceive? Just to weight your argument you've tempered the whole statement.

So, where is the question of trolling and Pakistan bashing. I believe Pakistan has the capability to go heights if terrorism can be nullified. But the will seems to be lacking from people in power.

As for trolling and Pakistan bashing

This is the problem with you guys, you cannot digest truthful observations and honesty. Dude, it's not me but the world which is doubtful of Pakistan's seriousness. And why should I give it a thought as a Pakistani, are Pakistanis less in numbers in this forum?

And also, your ridiculing me by saying that I'm sitting in India and reading Indian newspapers doesn't bother me, you proved how anti you are to a justified conversation.

Oh! and puhleeezzzz, I am not anti Pak and Pro US. Being a Think Tank, you should have know

And also lately, how much has the Chinese been giving to you guys? Nothing, if I am right.

Coming from a Think Tank, I expected much more.

 

[Mirage2000]

Since you seem to be a scholar in your economics (which I hope is like economics every where else) I have a few questions you can help me on.

No I am not, but will try my best to help you.

This figure has been bandied about, but please can you give me a breakdown on these numbers. What I want to know is what is your breakdown of the $36 billion number, at least to the nearest $100 million..

It would be $36000 million,but why have you asked me you could have consulted your adults or some person,are you literate?

On top of everything the GOP has claimed as expenses.

False you have prove? that GOP has calimed total expenses to be 10 Billion well I our finance minister said in budget about this.Do I have to give its links too? Oh you wont believe the claim because what I am guessing from your post below.

This is called fuzzy logic. You may be able to fool all of your countrymen all of the time... but some of us obstinate a$$holes are a little more difficult.

Well because of your choosen name you wont understand it,its simple maths.

My heart is weeping but my eyes cannot seem to shed any tears.

Keep your tears with you we dont need your F***** sympathy Mr Non Resident Indian or what you call yourself American Christian of Indian orign.

The two operations you have done this year is for the salvation of your country. The operation Rah-e-whatever was to get even with the people who killed Benazir, who made numerous attempts against Musharaf etc. However you have made no attempt until today to move against the people who attack us. Your fellow countrymen call them the " Good Taliban".

Answered by AM and many Pakistani members many times,there might be good Taliban simillar to the Good terrorists(BLA,BLUF,BRA) that US has been protecting in Afghanistan since they dont attack US and NATO and because it does'nt want to strain its relations with your X-country India.

So by my understanding , for the $10 billion we have given you so far on top of all your expenses (that may have been double or triple billed), you have still provided a safe haven for the people who wish to harm us, as long as they do not harm you.

Yeah MR speculator $10 Billion tripple to become $7.5 Billion,good very good. rest is answered above.

II do not need a web site, i just need someone with your deep understanding of economics to 'splain it to me

To ridicule Pakistanis there are many Indian forums available and they give great Importance to NRI's.

Please use the fuzzy logic with your fellow countrymen, the madrrassa graduates may buy it but I wont.

You wont accept it because its in your nature ,many of your fellow X-countrymen dont seem to accept Pakistan either.

Please tell me O hallowed economic expert, what in dollars, or yuan or rimimbi, your all weather friend has done for you for the past eight years.

Well China unlike US did'nt create and funded Taliban and left us when war was over

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...taliban-and-abandoned-pakistan-clinton--bi-06

and then came back and threatened us to bomb to stone age if we dont be its friend,moreover China did'nt started WOT and we also did'nt asked for Aid specifically from China but we have rather done it through forum of FODP but for your information.

From 2001 what China has given

China pledges $620 million in aid to Pakistan: official | Asian Economic News | Find Articles at BNET

China announces $500 million in aid to Pakistan: Tarin | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

BTW dont drag China into it China has nothing to do with US WOT try to contain your hatered for China MR NRI.

I being a neutral party is looking for an economics experts advice.

NRI's are Neutral?

 

[adrenalin]

Americans are pissed that Pakistanis have started to reject their aid The lender always wants to keep the borrower addicted to its aid...

Her best bet is to support the American stooges in our leadership and thats what she is doing. What the Americans don't realize is that they need a Pro-Pakistani policy, not a Pro-Stooge policy, because these stooges are highly unpopular and America would become further unpopular by showcasing itself as an extension of these corrupt feudal lords.

Pakistani politics needs to free itself from the AAA (Allah, Army and America) altogether. Each A's proponents are busy trying to win over the other. These lectures are meaningless since the baseline from where the Pakistanis begin to view each of these As is that they want to grab more power within Pakistan. That is the established baseline.

Just a one liner.
Without USs' aid, Pakistan would be another Zimbabwe.

 

[adrenalin]

No I am not, but will try my best to help you.


It would be $36000 million,but why have you asked me you could have consulted your adults or some person,are you literate?


False you have prove? that GOP has calimed total expenses to be 10 Billion well I our finance minister said in budget about this.Do I have to give its links too? Oh you wont believe the claim because what I am guessing from your post below.



Well because of your choosen name you wont understand it,its simple maths.


Keep your tears with you we dont need your F***** sympathy Mr Non Resident Indian or what you call yourself American Christian of Indian orign.


Answered by AM and many Pakistani members many times,there might be good Taliban simillar to the Good terrorists(BLA,BLUF,BRA) that US has been protecting in Afghanistan since they dont attack US and NATO and because it does'nt want to strain its relations with your X-country India.


Yeah MR speculator $10 Billion tripple to become $7.5 Billion,good very good. rest is answered above.


To ridicule Pakistanis there are many Indian forums available and they give great Importance to NRI's.

You wont accept it because its in your nature ,many of your fellow X-countrymen dont seem to accept Pakistan either.


Well China unlike US did'nt create and funded Taliban and left us when war was over

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...taliban-and-abandoned-pakistan-clinton--bi-06

and then came back and threatened us to bobm to stone age if we dont be its friend,moreover China did'nt started WOT and we also did'nt asked for Aid specifically from China but we have rather done it through forum of FODP but for your information.

From 2001 what China has given

China pledges $620 million in aid to Pakistan: official | Asian Economic News | Find Articles at BNET

China announces $500 million in aid to Pakistan: Tarin | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

BTW dont drag China into it China has nothing to do with US WOT try to contain your hatered for China MR NRI.

NRI's are Neutral?

Wow! Amazing! to know that you are among those Pakistanis who don't give a **** about American Help or about the hundreds of Pakistanis killed in terrorist attacks. Way to go mate.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Just a one liner.
Without USs' aid, Pakistan would be another Zimbabwe.

Well as you know about Pakistan more then anyone on this forum, i would really appreciate to plz tell us that during the time when we were not getting US aid and were under sanctions, we must be like Zimbabwe, so plz give a picture in figures and facts that what were the similarities between Pakistan and Zimbabwe ?? Enlighten us with your intellectuality plzzzzzz.

 

[adrenalin]

Well as you know about Pakistan more then anyone on this forum, i would really appreciate to plz tell us that during the time when we were not getting US aid and were under sanctions, we must be like Zimbabwe, so plz give a picture in figures and facts that what were the similarities between Pakistan and Zimbabwe ?? Enlighten us with your intellectuality plzzzzzz.

Mr. Khan, sorry if my post hurt you. It was not personal, so please do not take this personally.

Well without US aid, without US fighters, without US military equipments and without their intelligence they day is not far when whole of Pakistan would be taken over by Terrorists. Isn't this what those terrorists want? Pakistan's economy is struggling hard now. There will be no backbone left for the economy to even stand if terrorists take over.

Before US came into the picture and a couple of decades back, you did have a decent system. The reason was because Pakistan was not into the Business of sponsoring terrorism. It started only when you started to give birth and aid terrorists groups like LeT, Hizb etc. And this is a known fact the world over. Didn't PM Brown of UK say, that of all the terrorists planning attacks in Britain, most of them have their roots in Pakistan (or do you want me to go into archives and post a link for this too?). Also, intellectuality is not needed to understand things we say with our eyes daily. Common sense is so rare these days!!!