'CIA doctor' accused of treason

[Irfan Baloch]

That's just talk. That's not the same as an official commission recommending they be put on trial for treason.

Did he? Or dd he diagnose Pakistan as being sick and determine that ridding the world of OBL an important part to the cure?

He's not the person who chose to publicize the alleged phony vaccination stuff.

If they peddle secret information they might be committing espionage. Or maybe he or she is a reporter who receives a gift for publishing a juicy story? These things are not the same as treason, which is strictly defined under America's constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.​

The reason it was strictly defined and limited was because the Americans experienced abuses of treason charges under the British colonial system - the same system Pakistan had inherited and still exists in its people's minds, apparently.

Federal Civil servants also swear an oath:

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Thanks Sol,

I will change your might be to "WILL be".

I am not less delighted than you are for popping the OBL. he would have been the biggest fish even to cash and present to the world rather than hiding like a pathetic rodent living off self sustained veggies and chicken.

the doc did the right thing but for wrong reasons and method was bad. I dont know how much will you trust him to remain loyal to his new country with such background.

indeed he will be flying over to you very time soon. I would rather have a Doctor who actually helps our froces to identity and capture a world terrorist rather than sell this information to the highest bidder.
if loosing thousands of soldiers and agents and 30k+ lives of Pakistanis means fck all to you then lets agree on one thing then
we are wasting time talking to each other and I promise you that I wont be bothering you anymore.

not that I like that but I cant really do anything to someone like you who is so much stone cold and dismissive for all we have had to suffer.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I would predict that Pakistan will use Dr. Afridi as another bargaining chip at the negotiating table at the right time. The legal process will proceed slowly, and his release will be offered at a time to maximize the advantage for Pakistan.

I hope not. I really really dont hope so
what use is he for America now?

I wish that more emphasis is laid on how our own chaps managed to miss something that this doctor with the help of some under cover CIA operatives was able to identify.
You see we have some success stories in the past where ISI was able to catch some high profile terrorist leaders with CIA help or on its own but with this bigger fish I am forced to think that CIA decided to keep its part of information to itself.

Lets say you have your intel from air and other countries, web, com and bank channels and you have a narrowed down list of say 50 suspects and you are monitoring their pattern.

Then you have someone in ISI who has its own human intel base and has its own leads and say has a list of another 50 or 70 people. You get that information in the name of the “partnership” and you find that some names are similar and your list is down to say 20 and you see some very similar pattern.

Up comes a willing and “able” doctor who has never made his desire to live in the “land of dreams” any secret .. and BINGO you find your rat.
Shame on us we couldn’t find him ourselves and probably shame on you (maybe lesser extent) that you didn’t let us catch him together.

I think this doctor drama is being overplayed the main thing is who should get the chop for failing to find OBL and him being able to slip in too deep into Pakistan.
He could’ve been a butler or a chef in President’s house who knows. I think the focus should move to our failure and pasha has to go but with a spineless government living on borrowed time its not possible. Secondly we don’t have the tradition to step down voluntarily.

Oh the Doctor, yea please take him, let him live somewhere in the South. 

 

[lem34]

I hope not. I really really dont hope so
what use is he for America now?



The message americans want to give to future informants or collaboraters of pakistani origin and or citizens that they are above pakistani law and can save people who do cooperate with them

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The message americans want to give to future informants or collaboraters of pakistani origin and or citizens that they are above pakistani law and can save people who do cooperate with them

its hardly a save ,
the chap is being grilled by god knows how many agencies.
by the time he "does" come out , he might have forgotten the difference of the arse from the elbow
these interrogations are terrible not very subtle in the third world countries. water boarding will seem like a walk in the park compared to what Doctor Saab will be experiencing.

 

[lem34]

its hardly a save ,
the chap is being grilled by god knows how many agencies.
by the time he "does" come out , he might have forgotten the difference of the arse from the elbow
these interrogations are terrible not very subtle in the third world countries. water boarding will seem like a walk in the park compared to what Doctor Saab will be experiencing.

Thats the impression we are given by western press. torture is torture whether its carried out by CIA or a third world agency. Davies seemed fine to me when he was released. I dont buy it that our guys are like animals and the wests guys are gentle with torturing

 

[VCheng]

its hardly a save ,
the chap is being grilled by god knows how many agencies.
by the time he "does" come out , he might have forgotten the difference of the arse from the elbow
these interrogations are terrible not very subtle in the third world countries. water boarding will seem like a walk in the park compared to what Doctor Saab will be experiencing.

Thats the impression we are given by western press. torture is torture whether its carried out by CIA or a third world agency. Davies seemed fine to me when he was released. I dont buy it that our guys are like animals and the wests guys are gentle with torturing

I do not condone torture in any shape or form, no matter who does it and no matter how justified it may appear to be. NO.

The doctor might not even be aware of what role he was playing. I agree with IB that this is just a side issue. The real issue is how did OBL avoid detection, so that the surveillance system can be improved.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The real issue is how did OBL avoid detection, so that the surveillance system can be improved.

This keeps coming up - so how about someone explain how the US would have detected OBL, if he was living in a civilian neighborhood close to West Point?

I'll start off with listing possible options:

1. Ownership of the Property:

The owners of the Abbotttabad house were legitimate, owned the property legally and had no criminal record that has been revealed so far, so that would not spur any suspicion.

2. Electronic surveillance:

Since OBL was very careful not to use any electronic means of communication, that rules out being able to detect him through email, telephone, cell phone taps/traces.

3. Neighbors:

OBL was a very recognizable individual with a large bounty on his head, so the chances of someone spotting him and tipping off the authorities would be high. Of course the fact that he was residing in a neighborhood and city where no one expected him to be would have meant that the neighbors were not really expecting to find him there. And no one has so far come forward indicating they saw OBL, suspected he was there etc.

SO what exactly does that leave?

 

[MastanKhan]

it was a collective failure but Pakistan was scape-goated for obvious reasons that have already been discussed. . .


Abou,

The U S intentionally forgot about OBL---they even disbanded the team that was tracking him---pakistan made the mistake of doing the same----.

It should have realized and analyzed that there might be deception brewing somewhere----pakistan should have had its guard up when they saw the 'huntclub' for OBL being disbanded---.

Pakistani intel agy's should have caught onto the hint and the analysts should have reported of serious issues cropping up regarding OBL in the future---.

It is in the basic training manual of the agency----if you want to hide in a jungle---become a tree----be a sheep amongst the sheep and a rock in the quarry.

Whitey Bulger hid in Santa Monica openly---out in the public for 20 years---till a mere coincidence caught upto him----.

So---let us charge those on the other side with treason who let OBL escape the first time at tora bora---then twice more from predator strikes when the order was delayed----.

I mean to say---the u s flyers had killed hundreds of thousands of innocent afghans and iraqis by air strikes---actually mistaken air strikes----would another 10 male terrorists dead make any difference in this war---even when the intel on ground stated that they were men and one of them was the Sheikh---.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Nah! once is enough...quote me any specific part that you want to stress...

Nah! Come up with some specific questions/confusions u have and i'll be happy to (re)-address them for perhaps the 3rd or 4th time

 

[karan.1970]

Nah! Come up with some specific questions/confusions u have and i'll be happy to (re)-address them for perhaps the 3rd or 4th time

No confusion buddy.. Have your witch hunt the way u want..wont come out good for Pak either way

 

[lem34]

No confusion buddy.. Have your witch hunt the way u want..wont come out good for Pak either way

I have always been of the opinion that your enemies enemy is your freind. Cant believe that after 22 pages of discussions our indian freinds want to defend this bloke that just speaks volumes of what a good boy this afridi is to pakistan

 

[fd24]

I have always been of the opinion that your enemies enemy is your freind. Cant believe that after 22 pages of discussions our indian freinds want to defend this bloke that just speaks volumes of what a good boy this afridi is to pakistan

Judging by the love the indians show Afridi one would think he had a bit of Indian in his blood line. Mate if someone in India had carried out potential treason they would be swinging from tree to tree!!

 

[MastanKhan]

I hope not. I really really dont hope so
what use is he for America now?

I wish that more emphasis is laid on how our own chaps managed to miss something that this doctor with the help of some under cover CIA operatives was able to identify.
You see we have some success stories in the past where ISI was able to catch some high profile terrorist leaders with CIA help or on its own but with this bigger fish I am forced to think that CIA decided to keep its part of information to itself.

Lets say you have your intel from air and other countries, web, com and bank channels and you have a narrowed down list of say 50 suspects and you are monitoring their pattern.

Then you have someone in ISI who has its own human intel base and has its own leads and say has a list of another 50 or 70 people. You get that information in the name of the “partnership” and you find that some names are similar and your list is down to say 20 and you see some very similar pattern.

Up comes a willing and “able” doctor who has never made his desire to live in the “land of dreams” any secret .. and BINGO you find your rat.
Shame on us we couldn’t find him ourselves and probably shame on you (maybe lesser extent) that you didn’t let us catch him together.

I think this doctor drama is being overplayed the main thing is who should get the chop for failing to find OBL and him being able to slip in too deep into Pakistan.
He could’ve been a butler or a chef in President’s house who knows. I think the focus should move to our failure and pasha has to go but with a spineless government living on borrowed time its not possible. Secondly we don’t have the tradition to step down voluntarily.

Oh the Doctor, yea please take him, let him live somewhere in the South. 

Hi,

The good doctor was looking for blood samples---to check for DNA----. The phone clue that the ISI had given to the agency had some bearings on what was happening---. They kept pak out of it intentionally---the made all kinds of photography of that compound---from the side---from the top---from different angles from the atmosphere---there was no sign of OBL---.

He had taken the american advice and was living the life of a tree in a pakistani jungle---. Yet---every other most wanted in the u s---except for Ted K and Eric ----lived openly in the public arena---just like normal people---till they made that fatal error to get caught----. If Solomon can keep on harping on the un resolutions---he ain't getting anywhere---.

also keep in mind the new issue that has propped up---iran trying to assasinate the saudi ambassador!!!!!! So---pakistan gets a new lease on life----to my indian colleagues----Bhagwan does indeed work in strange ways---now doesn't he.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

also keep in mind the new issue that has propped up---iran trying to assasinate the saudi ambassador!!!!!! So---pakistan gets a new lease on life----to my indian colleagues----Bhagwan does indeed work in strange ways---now doesn't he.

how very convenient that they were plotting it in America
no where else eh?
stpid Ahmedin Nijad you are done now
the American Justice shall wipe the grin off your face

 

[Solomon2]

I love it lol:

“Pakistan has a pretty legitimate” case, said Peter Bergen, a national security expert and director of the New America Foundation, a non-partisan Washington think tank. “It doesn’t really matter how valid the goal is. That doesn’t change the fact that you’re spying for a foreign intelligence service.” Why, Bergen asked, “should Pakistan somehow not play by the same rules that a lot of countries play by?”

then some sad zionist trys to defend and the operative word being tries to defend the indefensible lol I like it that Peter Bergen, a national security expert and director of the New America Foundation, a non-partisan Washington think tank agrees with me lol

touche....

It's times like this I wonder whether I'm talking to adults. Of course, that's what Peter Bergen said - but you ignored the rest of the article which rubbishes Bergen's comments to shreds.

Is it too much to require Pakistanis to evaluate BOTH sides of an argument?

--- good intentions or bad intentions, you already i think understand that citizens of a country can't take directives or 'serve' the interests of another country's government.

Think about what happened in Swat, AZ. As Lieven recounts in his book, in 2008 the Taliban were on the borders, nothing was happening, people were scared and blamed the U.S. for involving Pakistan in the War on Terror. A year later terrorism in Swat was worse but the people of Swat were confident: the Pakistani Army was finally on the offensive!

So it isn't that the P.A. is "taking directives or serving the interests of another country." Often (remember Wikileaks!) it's just that the U.S. has been providing recommendations before Pakistan has been prepared to accept them.

I don't doubt that Pakistanis being what they are and manipulated as they have been, the people of Swat still blame the U.S. for their suffering, rather than the tardiness of their own Army and government, do you?