Chinook & Apache final, signatures likely in FY14

[acetophenol]

That's a myth, there is nothing like a weight category for attack helicopters, only helicopters that were converted to the attack role, like Rudra, or armed Black Hawks and helicopters that were designed and developed for the attack role, which includes the Apache just as the LCH. The fact that the Apache is heavier is not a reason that it's more capable than the LCH, but the lack of a mast mounted radar, or the fact that the stub wings of LCH can carry "JUST" 2 x missiles less in anti tank role, while both would carry the same standard load of 2 x ATGM quad launchers and 2 x rocket pods.



Only if we can add a custom data link that is compatible to our UAVs. Most of the block 3 upgrades are software and avionics additions based on the requirements of US / NATO forces, that doesn't mean they automatically would be useful for India too.

But the difference in their weights ultimately reflects in the type of the payload they carry,range and endurance,don't they?
Apaches carry 16 Hellfire missiles along with their radar,and 30mm cannon as opposed LCH which will carry 8 Helinas (correct me LCH is capable of carrying 16 Helinas in one go),and 20 mm cannon,no radar in an ATGM role.[Note-Hellfires and Helina almost weigh the same].

So IMO practically,the weight of Apache and LCH does make a difference.

 

[SrNair]

But the difference in their weights ultimately reflects in the type of the payload they carry,range and endurance,don't they?
Apaches carry 16 Hellfire missiles along with their radar,and 30mm cannon as opposed LCH which will carry 8 Helinas (correct me LCH is capable of carrying 16 Helinas in one go),and 20 mm cannon,no radar in an ATGM role.[Note-Hellfires and Helina almost weigh the same].

So IMO practically,the weight of Apache and LCH does make a difference.

But HAL LCH can do something Apache cant.They can fly upto 6500m and travel at a speed of 330km/h

 

[sancho]

But the difference in their weights ultimately reflects in the type of the payload they carry,range and endurance,don't they?

No they won't that is mainly limited to the weight limits of the hardpoints, or the individual weapon capabilities. LCH is planed to carry a max of 12 x ATGMs, because the outer hardpoints have lower weight limits than of the Apaches, but that has more to do with the design and not the weight and as shown in the earlier post, the standard config is the same with 8 x ATGMs + 2 x rocket pods. The Cobra helicopter is lighter than the Apache, but can carry 16 x ATGMs as well.
More importantly is, that both helicopters would do the same roles in IAF or IA, the difference is some slight differences in indivudual capability in terms of techs, or weapons, while LCH even has advantages in defence systems and possibly even range.

 

[SrNair]

Apache is considered as the best helicopter in the world.And they are battle proven.22 Apache will is not that game changer for Indian Army.IA prefer it because they can experience the technology in that system.Army LCH requirements is 114.So after using this Apache they can change their requirements and future upgraded version of LCH may incorporate Apache tech input.

 

[Superboy]

Apache is considered as the best helicopter in the world.And they are battle proven.22 Apache will is not that game changer for Indian Army.IA prefer it because they can experience the technology in that system.Army LCH requirements is 114.So after using this Apache they can change their requirements and future upgraded version of LCH may incorporate Apache tech input.

Apache the best in the world? WZ-10 might have something to say about that.

 

[Khan_patriot]

can anyone please explain why the f*** do we need the apaches and that too only 22 of them. attack choppers are a overhyped and overused species. even if we do need them we have our home made ones as well LCA , Rudra. etc. the only good that could have come from this deal was that if we could reverse engineer them.

choppers are a force multiplier and can cause massive damage if used effectively at the right time and place, plus they also give potential for surgical strikes

 

[garibnawaz]

But HAL LCH can do something Apache cant.They can fly upto 6500m and travel at a speed of 330km/h

The damage Apache's can do to the enemy tank columns is 10 times bigger than the LCH.

Both LCH and Apaches are meant for different roles. No comparison there.

The keyword of LCH is Light, hence 6500 meters and 330 KMH.

Apache max speed is 365KMH.

The Apaches for IAF will come with longbow radars. Put them on your western border and enemy has a serious problem in their tank thrust capabilities.

 

[SrNair]

Apache the best in the world? WZ-10 might have something to say about that.

Sorry friend .we here talk about world proven best attack helicopter and slightly less capable but our own indigenous product HAL LCH not some chinese system.

The damage Apache's can do to the enemy tank columns is 10 times bigger than the LCH.

Both LCH and Apaches are meant for different roles. No comparison there.

The keyword of LCH is Light, hence 6500 meters and 330 KMH.

Apache max speed is 365KMH.

The Apaches for IAF will come with longbow radars. Put them on your western border and enemy has a serious problem in their tank thrust capabilities.

Any proof?
I dont have any proof that LCH less than Apache or otherwise .may you have evidence .you are a member in LCH project team?
But one fact is sure.Indian Army ordered about 114 HAL LCH and only 22 Apache's.

 

[acid rain]

Apache the best in the world? WZ-10 might have something to say about that.

LOL, Thanks for the laugh..

Come back when the copy paste job has actually seen some combat action and not some photoshopped air show stunts.

Go to youtube and type "apache in action".

I typed "wz10 in action" and got some edited fancy videos of acrobatic stunts.

 

[Superboy]

LOL, Thanks for the laugh..

Come back when the copy paste job has actually seen some combat action and not some photoshopped air show stunts.

Go to youtube and type "apache in action".

I typed "wz10 in action" and got some edited fancy videos of acrobatic stunts.

Apache has never been proven effective in modern war. Sure, good against antic T-55. WZ-10 can do that too. WZ-10 has mast mounted AESA. Longbow Apache still has antic mechanically scanning radar. Apache cannot fire air to air missiles like WZ-10 can. Plus, WZ-10 has more advanced HMD than Apache's HMD.

 

[acetophenol]

But HAL LCH can do something Apache cant.They can fly upto 6500m and travel at a speed of 330km/h

ji,I wasn't trying to say that imply that LCH is inferior to Apaches. My point is that,Lch is lighter,carry lesser load than Apaches and therefore we do need both of them.

 

[acetophenol]

No they won't that is mainly limited to the weight limits of the hardpoints, or the individual weapon capabilities. LCH is planed to carry a max of 12 x ATGMs, because the outer hardpoints have lower weight limits than of the Apaches, but that has more to do with the design and not the weight and as shown in the earlier post, the standard config is the same with 8 x ATGMs + 2 x rocket pods. The Cobra helicopter is lighter than the Apache, but can carry 16 x ATGMs as well.
More importantly is, that both helicopters would do the same roles in IAF or IA, the difference is some slight differences in indivudual capability in terms of techs, or weapons, while LCH even has advantages in defence systems and possibly even range.

Agreed. But there is no doubt in getting the apaches,don't we?

 

[sancho]

Agreed. But there is no doubt in getting the apaches,don't we?

I'll say there is and there should be! Once because there is still the pending issue of which force will get them, since they were evaluated and planned for IAF, but might and should end up in IA. The other issue is the cost, since they come at around $40 millions a piece and we have far more important deals where this money would be more useful and would make a far bigger operational difference for Indian forces (M777 and self propelled howitzer, LUH, or MRMR).
I do like the Apache, but with Rudra and LCH we have this field covered pretty nicely and it would require only some minor upgrades to increase their capability (mast mounted radar, better rocket pods and ATGMs).

 

[garibnawaz]

[quote="sreekumar, post: 5169151, member: 150861"

I dont have any proof that LCH less than Apache or otherwise .
[/quote]

Good for you.

may you have evidence .

Apache will come with Longbow radars. What LCH has to offer in this class?

APACHE has a bigger range than LCH and can carry more weapons load than the LCH.

Longbow radar gives an edge to Apache which no one has in the region and very few in the world.

But one fact is sure.Indian Army ordered about 114 HAL LCH and only 22 Apache's.

and you did not understand the concept. Different birds different usage.

APACHE is meant for different use, LCH is meant for different use.

By your logic we have more Maruti's than Mercedez Benz so is Maruti equal or superior to mercedez?

We need Apache and those longbows.

At the same time for combat + cargo roles we need Rudra's and for various other roles we need LCH's.

 

[Superboy]

1.4 billion USD for 22 Apaches. Not a bad deal, I say. However, only 12 Longbow radars.

India, US set to ink $1.4bn deal for 22 Apache helicopters - Times Of India

LCH is India's counterpart of WZ-19, which is a light attack / recon chopper.

Z-19 Light Attack/Reconnaissance Helicopter With Mast Mounted Radar | Chinese Military Review