Chinese version of Russian jet endangers bilateral relations

[duhastmish]

At least we can make our own jets and export them, unlike some country only know how to pay money to buy one. At least we didnt crash 300 jets during 20 years. By the way, can some country even provide stable electrisic power? It is very sad to see a country has almost no industries, what a pity.

where did india came in from ?????

and do u run your fighter jet on electricity ???

 

[Luftwaffe]

Avatar..you are extremely terribly horrifically stupid..If you can't understand do not post replies to it. go away fool. some of you endians just ruin any thread you join..

 

[Frankenstein]

why go for crapish chinese junk - they copy russian stuff , which is already cheap and avilable easily.

any body would rather spend a few extra bucks n get original stuff. if they can get their hands on it.

which countries are goig nfor chinese junk ???? paksitan because its on soft loan and they cant get hand on russian stuff and eruopean stuff is too expensive which they cant afford.

chinese nomatter how hard they try to copy 35 yrs old su-27 , they cant match the original stuff. because they dotn have those avionics engine or experience.

cant understand why do you always write something you cant understand, Pakistan can not buy anything from Russia cuz of India, same is the case with the Europeans, remember how French back stabbed us cuz of u Indians on JF17s avionics, we have lots of American, Turkish, Swedish stuff in our arsenal, wat you have to do is open ur eyes and read, as i told you before don't write immature posts and get your facts straight

 

[below_freezing]

Are you BLIND ?

Just LOOK at the two fighters and tell me what difference can you see ?

China is already know for copying expensive western products and selling cheap Chinese copies ...but to buy and copy a Fighter Jet ...wow China really doesn't have much shame does it ?

If they could make something better than the original then they would make an original, there would be no need to copy.

You call it better than Su-27 just to convince your ego. Come down to reality.

it's like this. someone offers you a 2008 nissan maxima... but the insides are a 1960's ford engine and no seat belt. so you take out the bad engine and spend alot of time making a new one, making new seat belts, etc.

and then some dumb kid from across the block laughs at you for "copying" while asking daddy for a new ferrari, paid for in cash.

 

[applesauce]

look people, dont compare china with india, whether its 'copying" or making our own china surpasses india in every way they can only buy. now then yes china has taken a lot of designs from russia over the years and we improved them, china as a nation is poor and up until recently we could not afford to design something from scratch like the us can or the russians use to be able to. but we are a smart people we can reverse engineer which is still very hard but cheaper and more efficient than starting from scratch. however now that china is beginning to become richer and our R n D has recieve sufficent money and our school have started to produce quality engineers we are starting to see the fruits of years of investment in education, infrastructure and domestic companies, there is a large difference in domestic input from the j-5 to something more modern like the type-052c(russia has no ageis like ships at all). all these years people have claim that china copies and thats all it can do, well china did copy but it is certainly not all we can do, we are an innovative peoples even if those living only in modern times can not recall but in due time with the new funds, solid leadership and the drive to be once again a great nation i see china to be on the correct path. it has only been 30years since reform and 60 since founding of new china. so lets them complain, going from the sick man of asia to world leader in exports(among others) in 60 years is a great achievement and i am going to be proud of my country not matter what others may say.

 

[Justin Joseph]

it's like this. someone offers you a 2008 nissan maxima... but the insides are a 1960's ford engine and no seat belt. so you take out the bad engine and spend alot of time making a new one, making new seat belts, etc.

and then some dumb kid from across the block laughs at you for "copying" while asking daddy for a new ferrari, paid for in cash.

why are u posting off topic troll

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

look people, dont compare china with india, whether its 'copying" or making our own china surpasses india in every way they can only buy. now then yes china has taken a lot of designs from russia over the years and we improved them, china as a nation is poor and up until recently we could not afford to design something from scratch like the us can or the russians use to be able to. but we are a smart people we can reverse engineer which is still very hard but cheaper and more efficient than starting from scratch. however now that china is beginning to become richer and our R n D has recieve sufficent money and our school have started to produce quality engineers we are starting to see the fruits of years of investment in education, infrastructure and domestic companies, there is a large difference in domestic input from the j-5 to something more modern like the type-052c(russia has no ageis like ships at all). all these years people have claim that china copies and thats all it can do, well china did copy but it is certainly not all we can do, we are an innovative peoples even if those living only in modern times can not recall but in due time with the new funds, solid leadership and the drive to be once again a great nation i see china to be on the correct path. it has only been 30years since reform and 60 since founding of new china. so lets them complain, going from the sick man of asia to world leader in exports(among others) in 60 years is a great achievement and i am going to be proud of my country not matter what others may say.

The thread is not about India, but china coping Russian jets so stay to the topic don't derail it.

 

[below_freezing]

how am i off topic, and how am i a troll. there are no facts to cancel my statement that Russia has no AEGIS style air defense destroyers while china does, none of their destroyers use stealth architecture, and much of our design was done when russia and china were ENEMIES.

 

[Avatar]

Avatar..you are extremely terribly horrifically stupid..If you can't understand do not post replies to it. go away fool. some of you endians just ruin any thread you join..

Now where did you learn English ?

it's like this. someone offers you a 2008 nissan maxima... but the insides are a 1960's ford engine and no seat belt. so you take out the bad engine and spend alot of time making a new one, making new seat belts, etc.

and then some dumb kid from across the block laughs at you for "copying" while asking daddy for a new ferrari, paid for in cash.

Are you serious ?

We all know how "Chinese Copy" works.

You literally stole the technology, and the Russians claim that your J-11's are inferior to the latest Su-27's ...I am not speculating anything. I am only saying what the Russians say, who probably have more experience with dealing with you.

How do you justify stealing someone else's hard work ? I don't think a country can fall anymore than that ..Just because Russia has a bad economy you think you can exploit them ?

look people, dont compare china with india, .

Nobody wants to read your BS.


You ask not to compare while you are the only one comparing ...height of hypocrisy man.


We know India is not even 1/1000 of China ...but even then we will prefer to live in undeveloped India for a thousand years than live in fully developed PRC for 1 week.

 

[applesauce]

Now where did you learn English ?



Are you serious ?

We all know how "Chinese Copy" works.

You literally stole the technology, and the Russians claim that your J-11's are inferior to the latest Su-27's ...I am not speculating anything. I am only saying what the Russians say, who probably have more experience with dealing with you.

How do you justify stealing someone else's hard work ? I don't think a country can fall anymore than that ..Just because Russia has a bad economy you think you can exploit them ?

oh please the j-11 originally was a production line exported from russia to china(ultra low quality at that) we didnt steal jack in that case. the j-11b however u can consider copying all u want but its internals are complete different from the su-27 thats what the russian are arguing about, the j-11b. however they didnt sue outright because the contract china and russia sign can be interpreted to that we can modified the plane how we want s the argument is essentially what the contract says exactly, and we didnt export to anyone.

Nobody wants to read your BS.


You ask not to compare while you are the only one comparing ...height of hypocrisy man.


We know India is not even 1/1000 of China ...but even then we will prefer to live in undeveloped India for a thousand years than live in fully developed PRC for 1 week.

u ask where other people learned their English, well first where did you learn urs? , many previous post from both chinese indian and pakistani members brought in india, go ahead read the thread if you can. and you can go ahead and live in undeveloped starving india for a thousand years all you want we dont want you in china anyways. this is a point we both agree on. and no one said china is fully developed.

 

[ptldM3]

@ Batman

The TU-144 flew before the Concorde.

The Mig-15 was introduced two years before the Sabre.

If you think the Mig-29 and F-14 have similarities than you have issues.

The last picture is of T-50 fan art and it really looks nothing like the F-22.



^^^This is a failure of biblical proportions, Google is your friend...use it.

can you tell me the longest range of a Russian navy air defense missile? think it's the 9M330 on the Udaloy class.

Our longest naval air defence missle has a 400km range.

Or what about the 9М38 on the Sovermeny with a pitiful 30 km range?

Only your reasearch skills are "pitiful" do some reasearch or don't post at all, this is not the first time you have posted outright wrong information, take this advise stronly--do some reasearch next time before making your usual provocatice claims--and i really do mean provocative.

compared to our air defense destroyers with 200 km range coverage thanks to the HHQ-9?

Okay let me compare 200km vs 400km, which one do you think has the greater range?

Compare stealth:

Photo of Russian Udaloy Class: File:AdmiralVinogradov2009.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see, there is significant surface architecture and curves, making a large RCS almost impossible to avoid.

Photo of the 052C:
File:Fleet Hangchow Bay Bridge-1-.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Almost no architecture on the surfaces, which are completely smooth and clean, making RCS much smaller.

Again do some reasearch, the Udaloy class is not even that stealthy, our real stealth ships are the Steregushchy Class.

Since you are such an expert in "architecture on the surfaces" and "RCS" here is a picture of a Steregushchy class ship:

File:Corvette Steregushchiy.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you want to compare naval radars:

Ukranian naval radar (itself representative of Soviet level equipment): 160 km range

Type 348 chinese naval radar: 350 km range.

so why would we copy something inferior?

There is no information on the radar range of modern Russian ships; however, larger radars tend to have greater ranges--naval radars are large, but lets look at a smaller Russian none naval radar, lets choose the N035 Irbis radar, its range is 400km...so what about radars?

oh please the j-11 originally was a production line exported from russia to china(ultra low quality at that) we didnt steal jack in that case. the j-11b however u can consider copying all u want but its internals are complete different from the su-27 thats what the russian are arguing about, the j-11b. however they didnt sue outright because the contract china and russia sign can be interpreted to that we can modified the plane how we want s the argument is essentially what the contract says exactly, and we didnt export to anyone.

The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines.

Russia Admits China Illegally Copied Its Fighter - Defense News

 

[Luftwaffe]

ptldM3...MIG-19 first flew in dec 1948, being introduced 2 year before..read this.

In the interim, on 15 April 1947, the Council of Ministers issued decree #493-192, which ordered the Mikoyan OKB to build two prototypes for a new jet fighter. As the decree called for a first flight as soon as December, designers at OKB-155 fell back on an earlier troublesome design, the MiG-9. The MiG-9 suffered from an unreliable engine and control problems; the first would be solved by the excellent new Klimov engine, and to solve the second, the designers began experimenting with swept wings and redesigning the tail. The resulting prototypes were designated as I-310.

The I-310 was a clean, swept-wing fighter with 35° sweep in wings and tail, and exceptional performance, with a top speed of over 1,040 km/h (650 mph). Its primary competitor was the similar Lavochkin La-168. After evaluation, the MiG design was chosen for production. Designated MiG-15, the first production example flew on 31 December 1948. It entered Soviet Air Force service in 1949.

So No it was never introduced 2 year before infact in april 1947 was ordered to develop 2 prototypes. Therefore you are wrong on this account, google is your friend use it..don't even think about earlier designs..mig-15 was a scratch design because of the failure of earlier aircraft designs..

Further soviets copied B-29 bomber Superfortress and was called TU-4

 

[ptldM3]

ptldM3...MIG-19 first flew in dec 1948, being introduced 2 year before..read this.

When did the Mig-19 come into the picture? We're talking about the ealier Mig-15.

So No it was never introduced 2 year before infact in april 1947 was ordered to develop 2 prototypes. Therefore you are wrong on this account, google is your friend use it..don't even think about earlier designs..mig-15 was a scratch design because of the failure of earlier aircraft designs..

The F-86 Sabre was introduced in November 1950 and rushed to Korea to challenge the tactical edge of the MiG-15

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-86.htm

the MiG-15 was officially written into Soviet air service on December 23rd, 1948

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=124

Further soviets copied B-29 bomber Superfortress and was called TU-4

Stalin ordered engineers to reverse engineer it even though they wanted to build their own design.



Is there a reason why you posted a picture of the TU-95?

 

[below_freezing]

@ Batman

The TU-144 flew before the Concorde.

The Mig-15 was introduced two years before the Sabre.

If you think the Mig-29 and F-14 have similarities than you have issues.

The last picture is of T-50 fan art and it really looks nothing like the F-22.



^^^This is a failure of biblical proportions, Google is your friend...use it.





Our longest naval air defence missle has a 400km range.





Only your reasearch skills are "pitiful" do some reasearch or don't post at all, this is not the first time you have posted outright wrong information, take this advise stronly--do some reasearch next time before making your usual provocatice claims--and i really do mean provocative.



Okay let me compare 200km vs 400km, which one do you think has the greater range?



Again do some reasearch, the Udaloy class is not even that stealthy, our real stealth ships are the Steregushchy Class.

Since you are such an expert in "architecture on the surfaces" and "RCS" here is a picture of a Steregushchy class ship:

File:Corvette Steregushchiy.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





There is no information on the radar range of modern Russian ships; however, larger radars tend to have greater ranges--naval radars are large, but lets look at a smaller Russian none naval radar, lets choose the N035 Irbis radar, its range is 400km...so what about radars?





Russia Admits China Illegally Copied Its Fighter - Defense News

name the 400 km range missile on any destroyer you have?

also, your stealth ship is a mere corvette, we're talking about destroyers.

the only 2 destroyers you have are the udaloy and soveremny, both of them do not have any long range air defense nor are they stealth.

 

[Luftwaffe]

ptldM3...forget tu-95 my bad if i posted wrong pic but you should have gotten the message that TU-4 was a copy of B-29..
don't talk about earlier models as i said before in april 1947 soviet ordered to develop 2 prototypes of designated mig-15 later, where as The XP-86 prototype, which would become the F-86 Sabre, first flew on 1 October 1947 way before even the prototype of mig-15 was ready.

 

[ptldM3]

name the 400 km range missile on any destroyer you have?

Kirov class battlecruisers.

S-400 (SA-NX-20 Gargoyle) long-range SAM

Russian BattleCruisers

the only 2 destroyers you have are the udaloy and soveremny, both of them do not have any long range air defense nor are they stealth.

Destroyers superiority isn't based on SAM (like you claimed) but rather radar, sonar, and weapons systems.

ptldM3...forget tu-95 my bad if i posted wrong pic but you should have gotten the message that TU-4 was a copy of B-29..

Did i say otherwise, i made it clear it was a copy, but i also said the designers weren't happy that Stalin made them reverse engineer it.

don't talk about earlier models as i said before in april 1947 soviet ordered to develop 2 prototypes of designated mig-15 later, where as The XP-86 prototype, which would become the F-86 Sabre, first flew on 1 October 1947 way before even the prototype of mig-15 was ready.

The Mig-15 flew in 1947 and not ordered into development in 1947 as you say, as a matter of fact the Mig-15 was designed in 1946 but didn't fly until 1947.

the swept-wing MiG-15, which flew in December 1947

MiG Alley -- MiG-15

Designed in 1946 to answer Soviet premier Joseph Stalin's urgent call for a high-altitude day interceptor

Global Aircraft -- MiG-15 Fagot

I really don't know what your trying to prove, if you're tying to say the Mig-15 was a copy of the Sabre than you're wrong. This is what we know, the Mig-15 was designed in 1946, first flown in 1947 and went into service before the Sabre.