Chinese Submarines - are they noisy?

[Gijoe]

China sub make by Chinese is like a car run without a wheel, lol china sub noise like a motor bike.

 

[Akasa]

China sub make by Chinese is like a car run without a wheel, lol china sub noise like a motor bike.

And I'm assuming you have classified information to back that up?

And BTW a motor bike is very quiet for a submarine.

 

[Manticore]

During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy would arrange its own submarines in lines where each boat was 25 miles from the next, forming a sort of net to catch Soviet subs. With the introduction of the latest generation of quiet Russian diesel subs in the 1990s, the Americans thought that convergence-zone detection was no longer possible. But the Navy’s just discovered that China’s homemade subs are even louder than 20-year-old Russian boats. “Apparently they [U.S. subs] are making first convergence zone detections and holding them,” the analyst reports.

China's Noisy Subs Get Busier -- And Easier to Track | WIRED

Acoustic Quietness of Chinese Submarines

Acoustic Quietness of Chinese Submarines

Figure 1 and Figure 2, which are taken from the August 2009 ONI report, show the acoustic
quietness of Chinese nuclear- and non-nuclear-powered submarines, respectively, relative to that
of Russian nuclear- and non-nuclear-powered submarines. The downward slope of the arrow in
each figure indicates the increasingly lower noise levels (i.e., increasing acoustic quietness) of the
submarine designs shown. In general, quieter submarines are more difficult for opposing forces to
detect and counter. The green-yellow-red color spectrum on the arrow in each figure might be
interpreted as a rough indication of the relative difficulty that a navy with capable antisubmarine
warfare forces (such as the U.S. Navy) might have in detecting and countering these submarines:
Green might indicate submarines that would be relatively easy for such a navy to detect and
counter, yellow might indicate submarines that would be less easy for such a navy to detect and
counter, and red might indicate submarines that would be more difficult for such a navy to detect
and counter.


Figure 1:

Figure 2:

For detailed information, please refer to the following article:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf

Please update us on this issue if possible

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy would arrange its own submarines in lines where each boat was 25 miles from the next, forming a sort of net to catch Soviet subs. With the introduction of the latest generation of quiet Russian diesel subs in the 1990s, the Americans thought that convergence-zone detection was no longer possible. But the Navy’s just discovered that China’s homemade subs are even louder than 20-year-old Russian boats. “Apparently they [U.S. subs] are making first convergence zone detections and holding them,” the analyst reports.

China's Noisy Subs Get Busier -- And Easier to Track | WIRED

Acoustic Quietness of Chinese Submarines

Some old anonymous source from 2011.

I bet that you could find at least dozen of anti-China tabloid articles by just googling "China's noisy sub".

 

[Manticore]

Some old anonymous source from 2011.

I know. Some members recently raised the same question again and ive directed them to this old thread.
Please update us on this issue if possible

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I know. Some members recently raised the same question again and ive directed them to this old thread.
Please update us on this issue if possible

According to our PLAN expert, the Type 093G is better than the Soviet Oscar class.

Please don't question their credibility, our military experts are some of the most humble professional folks in the world, since they always emphasize that China is still a developing country, and we still have a lot of work to catch up.

But do you think that we need to eat the humble pie everyday when we are becoming really good?

 

[SipahSalar]

Depends on how many women are on board.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Depends on how many women are on board.

All sailors in the subs are men, since the women with their different physical structure aren't suitable to do this job.

 

[SipahSalar]

All sailors in the subs are men, since the women with their different physical structure aren't suitable to do this job.

I guess the joke about women being talkative flew over you.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I guess the joke about women being talkative flew over you.

Well, it is a serious debate about the knowledge.

The nuclear sub will usually undergo for a mission that would last about 2-3 months without getting surfaced, and I think that would seriously affect the female officers on their period.

So it isn't about the sex discrimination. Also, having sex during the mission in the warship is a very serious offense that could result the grave punishment.

This kind of misconducted behavior is also not allowed in the USN either.

Navy Fires Top Two Officers For Being "Unduly Familiar" While Commanding Warship | TIME.com

 

[SipahSalar]

The nuclear sub will usually undergo for a mission that would last about 2-3 months without getting surfaced, and I think that would seriously affect the female officers on their period.

I agree that women have no place on subs at least. But it seems USA is planning to have at least some form of female crew aboard their subs. This incident is an example:
Navy: Women secretly filmed in shower aboard sub
Navy investigates female officers filming - CNN.com

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I agree that women have no place on subs at least. But it seems USA is planning to have at least some form of female crew aboard their subs. This incident is an example:
Navy: Women secretly filmed in shower aboard sub
Navy investigates female officers filming - CNN.com

That is more symbolic than practical.

 

[Víðarr]

No proof Chinese submarines are noisier than US or Russian submarines

The claim of China having noisy submarines is pure speculation.

I have asked repeatedly: name the design flaw that you are claiming leads to noisy Chinese submarines.

I always hear silence.
.

The US Navy releases regular assessments of foreign military hardware that is based on its intelligence gathering. You can read them if you want, you can ignore them too, but they are out there and based on military intelligence gained in field (such as when a P-8 logs a submarines prop noise).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDQQFjAD&url=https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf&ei=n-4iVcT0H8GpNvnrgLAE&usg=AFQjCNHYU_yuJuoX914UXa2Uf8fA-yrTqg&bvm=bv.89947451,d.eXY

There are regular threat assessments that address the issues you highlighted. You can read 2014's in the link above.

You hear silence because you want too, our Navy doesn't hear silence when listening for Chinese subs though

 

[Jguo]

During the Cold War, the U.S. Navy would arrange its own submarines in lines where each boat was 25 miles from the next, forming a sort of net to catch Soviet subs. With the introduction of the latest generation of quiet Russian diesel subs in the 1990s, the Americans thought that convergence-zone detection was no longer possible. But the Navy’s just discovered that China’s homemade subs are even louder than 20-year-old Russian boats. “Apparently they [U.S. subs] are making first convergence zone detections and holding them,” the analyst reports.

China's Noisy Subs Get Busier -- And Easier to Track | WIRED

Acoustic Quietness of Chinese Submarines

Take a look at the source.

The chart you have shown is from a report written in 2009 by the ONI from an anonymous source, which even if legitimate would have gathered their data from the previous few years. It claims to have data for the Type 95 SSN (Type 93G) which was not launched/did not enter service until half a decade later; how did they know how quiet a sub is going to be 5/6 years before it enters service?? The source your have is completely inaccurate.

The new Type 93G has an estimated noise levels of slightly above 100 decibels, which is very impressive considering where China started. It is slightly better than/on par with the Improved LA class but behind the Seawolf and Virginia class (~95 decibels); i.e. Chinese SSNs are 1.5/2 generations behind the US but is catching up.

Whether a sub is detected also depends on the strategies employed and the relative operational experience of the crew, which is also an area where China has catching up to do. Note ocean background noise is about 90 decibels and subs like the Seawolf/Virginia/Astute class SSNs are virtually undetectable if they operate at low speeds/in passive mode.

China has had almost a decade to study the improved 636 Kilo class (~105 decibles) which is known to be very quiet and has come up with better and modern versions of its own AIP SSK as well as SSN subs; all in all the data shown in the 'report' is illogical and completely unrepresentative of the capabilities of the latest Chinese subs.

It is right for us to stay humble, but taking something that is completely untrue as fact would be very foolish. I don't think the Pakistan military leadership are foolish, quite the opposite in fact - Pakistan has built up significant military capabilities on a very limited budget; they certainly would not go all in and spend billions of dollars on 8 submarines if they are noisier than 30 year old Russian tech, agreed?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Take a look at the source.

The chart you have shown is from a report written in 2009 by the ONI from an anonymous source, which even if legitimate would have gathered their data from the previous few years. It claims to have data for the Type 95 SSN (Type 93G) which was not launched/did not enter service until half a decade later; how did they know how quiet a sub is going to be 5/6 years before it enters service?? The source your have is completely inaccurate.

The new Type 93G has an estimated noise levels of slightly above 100 decibels, which is very impressive considering where China started. It is slightly better than/on par with the Improved LA class but behind the Seawolf and Virginia class (~95 decibels); i.e. Chinese SSNs are 1.5/2 generations behind the US but is catching up.

Whether a sub is detected also depends on the strategies employed and the relative operational experience of the crew, which is also an area where China has catching up to do. Note ocean background noise is about 90 decibels and subs like the Seawolf/Virginia/Astute class SSNs are virtually undetectable if they operate at low speeds/in passive mode.

China has had almost a decade to study the improved 636 Kilo class (~105 decibles) which is known to be very quiet and has come up with better and modern versions of its own AIP SSK as well as SSN subs; all in all the data shown in the 'report' is illogical and completely unrepresentative of the capabilities of the latest Chinese subs.

It is right for us to stay humble, but taking something that is completely untrue as fact would be very foolish. I don't think the Pakistan military leadership are foolish, quite the opposite in fact - Pakistan has built up significant military capabilities on a very limited budget; they certainly would not go all in and spend billions of dollars on 8 submarines if they are noisier than 30 year old Russian tech, agreed?

It is quite conservative to say the Type 093G is on par with the improved LA class.

The Type 093G was designed to trail against the Virginia class without getting detected, so it could also likely be on par with the earliest block of the Virginia or the Astute class.