Chinese soldiers surround Indian Soldiers in Chumur area in Ladhakh, media reports

[Genesis]

I did not mention any kind of economy structure. I only gave reference to weak leadership. The Chinese have indeed a very strong leadership, but the question is how long?
China has only started of course in the next 50 years you can give a time frame if a single leadership comes which is corrupt and pro west, that will be trouble some.

Bringing India into discussion is not fruitful because, in India the system is so molded that it is not the Leadership which decides the fate, it is the people. If leadership fails, in the next five years comes a new leadership. But the only problem in India is, the system is very slow and so is the development.

That is very arbitrary and unrealistic. China is a nation that can challenge and surpass the West, why would any leader bend to them when instead he or she can make the others bend.

As to people decide the fate, unless the people decided to be poor and uneducated, then India is also decided by leadership. I keep hearing Modi will do this, I never hear people will do that.

Chinese leadership change every 10 years, that is set in stone.

The fact you mention the people means how much you don't understand the Chinese system. To you, China must just be another dictatorship, but if you use a clear mind, how can a system not responsible to the people do so much for the people.

 

[Screambowl]

That is very arbitrary and unrealistic. China is a nation that can challenge and surpass the West, why would any leader bend to them when instead he or she can make the others bend.

As to people decide the fate, unless the people decided to be poor and uneducated, then India is also decided by leadership. I keep hearing Modi will do this, I never hear people will do that.

Chinese leadership change every 10 years, that is set in stone.

The fact you mention the people means how much you don't understand the Chinese system. To you, China must just be another dictatorship, but if you use a clear mind, how can a system not responsible to the people do so much for the people.

In India, it is bureaucracy which plays the major role. You need leader to keep bureaucracy in discipline. China do it through PLA, any country where there is heavy influence of Military or people of Military mind in government, it will develop fast, it will not bow down.
Pakistan had developed only in Military regimes, but the only flaw of their military regime was to take revenge from India, that's why Pakistan is now facing problem.

If the leader is of such military ideology or milita group, that country will have power, will not bend, but fall is also certain, after a time limit.

 

[andy_hujian]

China is like Pakistan. Their military controls the government. Not the other way around.

It's like this from time to time. Xi Emperor will change it soon.

In India, it is bureaucracy which plays the major role. You need leader to keep bureaucracy in discipline. China do it through PLA, any country where there is heavy influence of Military or people of Military mind in government, it will develop fast, it will not bow down.
Pakistan had developed only in Military regimes, but the only flaw of their military regime was to take revenge from India, that's why Pakistan is now facing problem.

If the leader is of such military ideology or milita group, that country will have power, will not bend, but fall is also certain, after a time limit.

Could u estimate the time limit for us? So that we can have a clear head and adjust ourselves, like we always did?

 

[Screambowl]

Could u estimate the time limit for us? So that we can have a clear head and adjust ourselves, like we always did?

I cannot predict , I am no fortune teller. But whenever there is a fall, the fall is tremendous. Because the Military of that country becomes its own enemy. Be it due to proxy war, or spy war, or 5th generation war, like in Syria, Tunisia.

In case of civilian body the military is asked to intervene in civil war and the situation comes under control. Because armed forces are neutral. The civilian body like in India can create propaganda to bring majority to its own side. That is the only advantage of a civilian body and very strong advantage. The country will not fall.

In 1947, Civilian bodies wanted the partition of India and Pakistan it happened, otherwise there was no scope. Of course civilian bodies are corrupt and create trouble for a nation, but there are patriots too.

 

[andy_hujian]

I cannot predict , I am no fortune teller. But whenever there is a fall, the fall is tremendous. Because the Military of that country becomes its own enemy. Be it due to proxy war, or spy war, or 5th generation war, like in Syria, Tunisia.

In case of civilian body the military is asked to intervene in civil war and the situation comes under control. Because armed forces are neutral. The civilian body like in India can create propaganda to bring majority to its own side. That is the only advantage of a civilian body and very strong advantage. The country will not fall.

In 1947, Civilian bodies wanted the partition of India and Pakistan it happened, otherwise there was no scope. Of course civilian bodies are corrupt and create trouble for a nation, but there are patriots too.

You talk like a fortune teller though. No dynasty in the world lasts forever. If you mean this, then I agree with you.
Whether this regime can last 200 years, 300 years..., is beyond the lifespan thus is meaningless. Same applies to India.

 

[Genesis]

In India, it is bureaucracy which plays the major role. You need leader to keep bureaucracy in discipline. China do it through PLA, any country where there is heavy influence of Military or people of Military mind in government, it will develop fast, it will not bow down.
Pakistan had developed only in Military regimes, but the only flaw of their military regime was to take revenge from India, that's why Pakistan is now facing problem.

If the leader is of such military ideology or milita group, that country will have power, will not bend, but fall is also certain, after a time limit.

Dude you need to get out more, Chinese cops don't carry guns, Chinese military, aside from vacations and exercises, never ever leave their barracks. If you think China keeps the people in check through military, you got another thing coming.

The thing Indians on this forum is you seen too many military governments in middle east and thus you think this of China. Chinese military is relegated to the back for almost three decades for economic development, multiple reductions in size and even today there's still talk of restructure and reduction.

Also you try to appear high and mighty with democracy, which is also India's problem since independence, everything you do wrong and it's well at least we have democracy.

But that is fast changing with the way China is changing I seen lots of Indians even becoming disenfranchised with the system. Not saying you should change, but I am saying just having democracy is no longer so satisfactory when Indians are so far behind their, to use your words "military regime." BTW, no Chinese leader since Deng has served a day in the military, nor will any of them ever do.

Chinese military in name is under the party but in reality is under the country. Today the party has become the country.

People in China don't join the army, well unless they come from that kind of family, where their parents or something were soldiers or they like the military. Chinese military is constantly increasing benefits cause less and less people want any part of it since the economic situation is so much better.

Today jobs can't find people, not the other way around. The most use sign isn't ads, it's help needed, apply inside.

 

[KingMamba]

I have a feeling the Chinese military has a mind of their own

I am starting to think as much as well, everyone on this board assumes the Chinese are making their moves with one strain of thought but we don't know if that is really the case at all.

 

[Windjammer]

100 more Chinese soldiers enter Chumar area

Chinese army today reportedly made a fresh incursion in Chumar area and refused to return even as a flag-meeting between the two sides is believed to have made no headway in breaking the deadlock.

Official sources said that some of the Chinese troops had returned yesterday and it was generally expected that the others would also retreat to their side of the perceived Line of Actual Control (LAC).

However, as many as 100 more soldiers of Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) arrived from a hillock of Chumar area and strengthened its numbers to nearly 350, the sources said.



Surprisingly, the move came barely few hours ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping's arrival in India on a state visit.

India also rushed some more troops in the area and both sides were indulging in repeated banner drill, the sources said.

A Brigadier-level flag meeting, second within a week, was held in Chushul, where the issue of intrusion of Chinese troops in Chumar and civilian intrusion in the Demchok area was discussed, the sources said.

The sources said it was believed that no breakthrough was achieved and the two sides may be meeting again shortly.

Chumar, located more than 300 kms Northeast of Leh and bordering Himachal Pradesh, has been a flash point between the two sides with Chinese making several attempts to end India's dominance in the area.

The PLA has been making repeated bids to claim Chumar as part of Chinese territory but has been thwarted every time by the Indian army.

The sources said that vehicular movement on Chinese side was noticed and it was believed that Chinese PLA was indulging in face off tactics only to divert attention of India about construction work being undertaken on their side.

Under the agreement between the two sides, any country indulging in defence construction has to inform the other sides.

Meanwhile, the stand-off in Demchok where Chinese nomads -- Rebos -- had pitched their tents continued. The incursion in this area is nearly 500 metres deep into Indian territory, the sources said.

 

[Screambowl]

You talk like a fortune teller though. No dynasty in the world lasts forever. If you mean this, then I agree with you.
Whether this regime can last 200 years, 300 years..., is beyond the lifespan thus is meaningless. Same applies to India.

then why so fuzz about chinese power. Well I am not talking talking about dynasty. I am talking about that the civilian controlled regime is always more stable than a military held regime.

 

[andy_hujian]

then why so fuzz about chinese power. Well I am not talking talking about dynasty. I am talking about that the civilian controlled regime is always more stable than a military held regime.

Riots in civilian controlled regime are everywhere. That's far from stable.
Thailand's civilian government were overthrown every couple of years by the yellow or red shirt groups.
Turkey's civilian regime suffered riots a few months ago.
Egypt used to be a civilian regime but toppled.
...
...
...

You made a statement too easy. The world is complex.

 

[PWFI]

Lol and Here comes junior Zaid jahil Hamid. Low caste converts never ruled India. That 1000 years theory has been debunked million times already lol. You Arab wannabes would never learn true history. All you learn is manipulated history from madrasas in Pakistan.

1965, 1999 were strategic defeat for Pakistan. U failed to achieve your strategic objectives in both Wars and ran back with your tail between the legs lol.

Millions of Pakistani watch bollywood movies too. Kiddo. Stop watching Zaid Hamid talk shows and learn real history.

i don't want to waste my time with 10year old keyboard hindu brainless uneducated brainwashed warrior---Go and do your home worlk and study history then come here to talk with me. Or keep watching POGO

 

[indoPunjabi]

i don't want to waste my time with 10year old keyboard hindu brainless uneducated brainwashed warrior---Go and do your home worlk and study history then come here to talk with me. Or keep watching POGO

Calm down my son.. Take a deep breath & drink cold water lol

Just avoid Zaid Hamid talk shows & madrasa education and you'll be fine soon.

 

[Windjammer]

NEW DELHI: Nearly 1,000 Chinese soldiers intruded into India in Ladakh's Chumur sector on Thursday, a day when Chinese President Xi Jinping is on a visit here.

According to Army sources, nearly 1,000 Chinese soldiers moved inside the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Jammu and Kashmir's Ladakh region, and refused to go back.

The Indian Army has rushed three battalions to the LAC in the sector.

This Chinese incursion is being touted as the worst in recent years.

PM Narendra Modi raised the issue of incursions with Chinese President Xi Jinping last night during their meeting. The issue will be raised again today, MEA spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said today.

National security adviser Ajit Doval is said to be monitoring the situation himself.

A flag meeting that was held on Wednesday to diffuse the gnawing tension was of brigadier-level. It was held at a border personnel meeting point in Chushul, where the issue of intrusion of Chinese civilians in the Demchok area was also discussed, Army sources said.

 

[lightoftruth]

After Modi's hard talk with Xi in Delhi, Chinese troops pull back in Chumar


Read more at: After Modi's hard talk with Xi in Delhi, Chinese troops pull back in Chumar : India, News - India Today

Nearly 1000 soldiers of the People's Liberation Army, who had made incursions into the Chumar region in Jammu and Kashmir, have reportedly pulled back from their positions even as India demanded a total withdrawal from its territories on Thursday.

Sources on Thursday said the PLA troops have pulled nearly 2 km back from their position. Meanwhile, the Indian Army has sent reinforcements to Chumar and is now awaiting China's response on a flag meeting it has called with the PLA.

The faceoff between the Indian and Chinese soldiers since Wednesday had dampened the bonhomie around Chinese President Xi Jingping's three-day visit to India, reminding the two countries of the problems underlying growing commercial ties.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Jinping held talks at New Delhi's Hyderabad House during which the Indian side conveyed its concerns over Chinese incursions as the two sides discussed all "substantive issues" having their bearing on the bilateral ties.

Modi and Xi first held talks in a restricted format, which was followed by a delegation level deliberation during which the two leaders also focused on cooperation in key areas of trade and investment.

"Let me assure you all these issues have been raised and issues of concern, including recent events, will continue to be discussed," Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said in response to a question about the Chumar standoff.

Modi, who hosted a private dinner for Xi in Ahmedabad, raised the issue of Chinese incursions on Wednesday night as well as Thursday morning, official sources said. The Chinese Army pushed in more troops into Chumar village along the Line of Actual Control in the wee hours on Thursday.

The Chinese side had pushed in more troops on Wednesday morning as well, the sources said, adding the number of People's Liberation Army personnel stood at nearly 1000.

Chumar, located more than 300 km northeast of Leh and bordering Himachal Pradesh, has been a flashpoint between the two sides with the Chinese Army making several attempts to end India's dominance in the area.

The stand-off in Demchok where Chinese nomads -- Rebos -- had pitched their tents is continuing. The incursion in this area is nearly 500 metres deep into Indian territory.

Meanwhile, about 20 supporters of free Tibet, mainly women, protested within a few metres of Hyderabad House in New Delhi where Modi and Xi were holding talks, waving Tibetan flags and shouting "We want justice." Police detained them after a few minutes.

Several other small pro-Tibet protests broke out across the national capital.

Speaking in Mumbai, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said Xi should use his visit to learn from the Indian experience of democratic rule and learn democratic practices.

"I think the Chinese president should learn some of India's experience. Democratic rule, rule of law, and free media," he said.

In a sign that Modi wanted Xi's visit to be a success, the Centre had asked the Dalai Lama, whom Beijing labels a dangerous separatist seeking an independent Tibet, to reschedule an event in the national capital so that it would not clash with the Chinese president's trip.



Read more at: After Modi's hard talk with Xi in Delhi, Chinese troops pull back in Chumar : India, News - India Today

 

[Donatello]

Damn, violation of sovereignty of a superpower.