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Chinese patent problems

lol and you call this as creditable source? :D do you even have a sense of shame? you are bashing china with anything now, because you ran out of ammunitions``:bad:

Have a a little patience. Scroll back and see previous posts !I was replying to CD who said zero was invented by Persians, and not indians without even in a giving a source !

It first came to be between 400 and 300 B.C. in Babylon, Seife says, before developing in India, wending its way through northern Africa and, in Fibonacci's hands, crossing into Europe via Italy.

The Origin of Zero: Scientific American

Now give us better source and prove me wrong !
 
and you believe in those craps? no wonder from a kiddo`:)

shining what shining? economy? its in primative stage
indial.png
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social development? (caste system, sex inequality, worst gender ratio in Asia, extreemly low HDI figure)
BBC NEWS | Business | Inequality threat to Indian power
Social Inequality Threatening India's Economic Stability | Fast Company
India Human Rights Report - Discrimination Based on Race, Sex, Religion, Disability, Language, or Social Status
Gender Discrimination in India
List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
India ranks 119 on human development index - Economic Times
List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

innovation? worst infringments and IP violations and cheating by IP officer`` and 70% of patents own by foreign companies



Thomson Reuters Patent Focus Report 2009 - Science - Thomson Reuters

and those so-called 'shining' 'innovation powerhouse' 'all over the internet' articles all with no substance and authentic figures to back them up``but indian bharat mad barking kind like a stress relief as simple as that

So that is your last line of defence in every threads ?? Posting infinite sources to show India's social problems and human development index . Why dont you add poverty and child malnutrition stats too !!??

We have already admitted that we lag in patents and innovation.
 
Who is making junk patents? Source :- ChinaDaily

“The so-called patent agents are actually little more than makers of junk patents,” said Ms. Guo laughingly. Ms. Guo is a patent agent herself and was a bit tired as she had just returned from a business trip where she had met a handful of clients. ials, and she had to write down several patents on the spot.She told China IP that in one company visit the day before, all technical staff there simply described products to her verbally, without any written mater

Guo seemed helpless over how these patents are produced more “efficiently.” In actual practice, she told our reporter, agents might even go so far as “creating” some innovative features for those soon-to-be-doomed patent applications. “We agents are practically becoming inventors,” she said with self mockery. “However, when we try to tell companies what’s in our mind, they refuse to understand and think we are just looking for money.”


In recent years, China has been moving very fast in the number and speed of patent applications. As Thomson Reuters pointed out in a research report, “China will surpass Japan and the United States in the annual number of patents by 2011.” However, coming at the same time is the corporate and academic opinion that “over 50% or even 80% of Chinese patents are junk.”


“As a patent agent, I’m even more anxious to create valuable patents than corporations are,” Guo said. Usually regarded as a high-income group, patent agents have their bitter complaints.

Supportive Policies Cause Many Junk Patents

To encourage innovation, in recent years local governments have issued incentive policies for patents; setting up funds and offering other preferential treatment. This was effective and China saw a fast increase in the number of patents applied for and granted. Many firms received financial support and tax cuts. However, it has been reported that for many firms the most common motive for the increased patent applications is government support instead of the patents themselves. A marketer with little IP knowledge reported to China IP : “Our company applied for many patents last year to qualify for preferential government policies.” People simply use patents as nothing more than a means to an end. Therefore the patent support policies were dubbed as policies that can be used to make a “quick buck.” In one IP fraud case, a Shanghai swindler helped an enterprise apply for patent for free; the enterprise received a patent certificate while the swindler received a handsome amount of money from the support fund.


You Minjian, lawyer in charge of IP affairs at Co-effort, a Shanghai-based law firm, stated, “The government support policy caused plenty of junk patents and a batch of agents who produce such junk. Service prices of the trade were also dragged down. Now in Shanghai it only costs 4,000 Yuan for an invention. The sum is simply too low for a good patent, which requires time and thought. People just get things done quickly. When you go to defend your rights you will find that too many applications are just junk. But enterprises don’t care, for all they are looking for is some financial interest.”

Presently, this group of patent agents can be described by one word——busy. Every agent has piles of cases at hand and sometimes they are too busy to accept new cases. According to Ma Lianyuan, former president of All-China Patent Agents Association, China has more than 10,000 certificated agents, but no more than 7,000 of them really practice. Statistics from the website of the SIPO showed that some 980,000 applications were fled in China in 2009. So each agent took 140 on average annually, and had to finish one every 2.5 days. The quality can be imagined.

However, due to the amazing number of applicants, patent agency became a trade so hot that more and more firms joined in. Consequently, price cuts became an important competitive means. “Some enterprises, setting eyes on the government fund rather than patent quality, would usually choose agencies of lower price and inferior service,” a Shanghai agent reported, “and enterprises and agencies would bargain fiercely, just like picking up a head of cabbage from the street.” Disorderly market competition also fueled junk patents. Tan Wenye, partner of Anova Law Group said, “In the US, people simply don’t bargain with lawyers, just like patients don’t bargain with doctors. For enterprises, IP is as precious as life to human beings.”

However, enterprises were not the only ones who set eyes on supportive policies. College incentives to patent applications fueled enthusiasm among faculty and students, and scandals of junk patents were staged. Middle school and university students sought extra marks in college entrance and postgraduate exams, and some professors took it as a tool to obtain money. Supported by research funds and workplace subsidies, plenty of patent applications and numerous result-assessment meetings appeared.

Tian Lipu, commissioner of SIPO, said the country’s preferential policies were attractive. The encouragement is a good thing, but it might easily go astray. He believes “junk patents” are a problem at a certain stage of development which can be solved by more refined and scientific administration and the incentives should focus on inventions and international patents.

You Minjian also said, “Government support should focus more on inventions which go global, because they are costly and competitive, and awards should be available for completed inventions.”

Flaws in Patent Examination

The epidemic of junk patents naturally led to finger-pointing at SIPO. The absence of substantive examination on design and utility model applications caused a large number of junk patents under these two categories. The Office has been placing emphasis on revising China’s patent system to curb the problem, and the threshold for designs was raised greatly in the third revision to the Patent Law in 2009.

Apart from an improved system, however, more doubts exist regarding patent examinations. A researcher from a pharmaceutical company told of his personal experience on an online forum. He said, “Following our agent’s suggestions, our lab applied for six patents at the same time. But each carried no substantial difference, all being variations of one technology and only having unnecessary changes on a certain step of the process.” The result was that the applications went to different departments of examination, one to biomedicine, another to biological assessment and still another to material assessment. Four of them were finally rejected with different reasons, one didn’t receive any reply and only one stood the chance of being approved. The researcher couldn’t help asking: why did the applications, almost the same in nature, go to different departments? And why did the examiners have widely different perspectives and gave different reasons of refusal? Ironically, it was only at that point that the researcher understood his agent’s cunning in suggesting six patents simultaneously.

China still lacks high-quality examiners as applications pile up,experts report. Moreover, inadequate assessment and supervision also contributed to the appearance of junk patents. Ruud Peters, CEO of Philips Intellectual Property and Standards, once stated in an interview, “All patent examination organizations hope to get done with all of the backed-up applications. And there is only one way: to go through the process quickly. It means to sacrifice quality and attention for speed, and a decrease in the average quality of patents.”

First time in my life I have heard the term "junk patents" :lol:
 
Who is making junk patents? Source :- ChinaDaily

First time in my life I have heard the term "junk patents" :lol:

once again personal opinion is the fact``if 80% of chinese patents were junk, then those panel expertise working for PCT are really rubbish like you two understanding of patents and innovation.

here is the standard procedure of granding patents from PCT

1.applications submitted by applicants
2.PCT receive the applications, then distribute to the related area of examination office
3.thorough examination of the proposed new ideas and techniques (ingringement check, existing similar techs check and IP violation check)
4. grant patents to the person or organization for the exclusive usage of the new techs

so apart from wasting your hunderd hours time googling some unofficial sources and to come up rather bizarre nonsensical inventions like 'junk patents' or 'china doesnt own the stuff it produces' or 'China's patents are not invention' you better to dig the real stuff from authentic sources``

the PCT and Thomson Reuters reports are annually and hunderds in pages very detailed, they will help reality and common senses to squeeze in your litttle delusional brain
 
So that is your last line of defence in every threads ?? Posting infinite sources to show India's social problems and human development index . Why dont you add poverty and child malnutrition stats too !!??

We have already admitted that we lag in patents and innovation.

showing you the examples what is rubbish what is reality``for example the first article, india is 'shining' and india is the innovation powerhouse are the rubbish``so there is no valuable points can be discussed rather a basic patent and innovation education to you two``

besides it has nothing to do whether you addmit or not that india is backward in innovation and patent``it is the solid reality not someone's opinion like you lot lot like to quote``lol
 
once again personal opinion is the fact``if 80% of chinese patents were junk, then those panel expertise working for PCT are really rubbish like you two understanding of patents and innovation.

here is the standard procedure of granding patents from PCT

1.applications submitted by applicants
2.PCT receive the applications, then distribute to the related area of examination office
3.thorough examination of the proposed new ideas and techniques (ingringement check, existing similar techs check and IP violation check)
4. grant patents to the person or organization for the exclusive usage of the new techs

so apart from wasting your hunderd hours time googling some unofficial sources and to come up rather bizarre nonsensical inventions like 'junk patents' or 'china doesnt own the stuff it produces' or 'China's patents are not invention' you better to dig the real stuff from authentic sources``

the PCT and Thomson Reuters reports are annually and hunderds in pages very detailed, they will help reality and common senses to squeeze in your litttle delusional brain

Boy, I am yet to see one post from you without abuses and which make any sense.. and you know more then a professional IP lawyer in China.. ChinaDaily has printed the news after due diligence and holds more credibility then what your personal opinion is.. if you think all the sources on internet, showing the reality of chinese patents, are biased and not authentic then come up with an authentic one..
 
:rofl:
some of indians on internet are really doing a g8 job giving their beloved country a very bad name. but they dont care because they are shameless. :disagree:

Another delusional Chinese.. Yes it is the Indians who came out with the stories of Chinese patent all over the world even in Chinese media.. You are acting as if no IPR violations are happening in your country and all the fraud stories around are planted by Indians.. Shamefully none of the Chinese are ashamed of IPR violations and fraudulent/junk patent fillings in China but are the first one to jump the gun on others shortcomings. Hypocrites..

You gloat about your patents all over the forum and when you are shown the reality check you guys are getting pissed off.. All you guys are doing is attacking the messenger rather then answering plain simple questions and addressing the problems.. Shame on you!!

Anyways this topic is discussed to length and is getting boring so I am out of it.. Hopefully Chinese will refer this thread going forward before making any tall claims.. Cheers!!!
 
Another delusional Chinese.. Yes it is the Indians who came out with the stories of Chinese patent all over the world even in Chinese media.. Shamefully none of the Chinese are ashamed of IPR violations and fraudulent/junk patent fillings in China but are the first one to jump the gun on others shortcomings. Hypocrites..

My dear bharati bhai, please claim down unless you want your bashing party to be over soon. :pop:
First of all, i must say you're not playing a fair game, personal opinion from a "blog" which even the blog itself saying "SUSPECTED"=not confirmed, right? :azn:

Secondly, about Chinese medias, how many times have you accuse as CPC propaganda? and now when it came in handy to you argument's benefit, you shamelessly quoting it as supporting source, you just can't have both way, can you? :what:

Thirdly, I really doubt Indians from India who happened to be the "NO 1 IP" violator on the planet should lecturing others for the need of ashamed for IP violation, it just doesn't sounds too convincing, does it? :lol:

Finally, a pretty good article for you to read, perhaps it might help easing some of your "prejudice, jealousy" butt hurt "chain reaction":partay:
Fear not China's creative policy 2011-06-29

By Dieter Ernst

Contrary to common misperceptions in the United States, China's present innovation policies do not pose an immediate threat to American leadership in science and technology. In fact, the US retains a strong lead in overall innovative capacity, and China still has a long way to go to close the innovation gap.

China's progress in innovation should be seen as a wake-up call for the US. Rather than fearing China, we in the US need to focus our research and policy debates constructively on how this relationship can be improved. The US government and the private sector need to work together in implementing proactive trade diplomacy that takes into account the diverse forces and conflicting agendas that drive China's innovation policy, and in developing a national strategy to upgrade America's innovation system to cope with the competitive challenges posed by China.

Trade diplomacy and national innovation strategy are interrelated, and hence we need to pursue them simultaneously. Corrective action needs to start now, but there is still time to adjust policies and corporate strategies to the new challenges of an increasingly multi-polar global knowledge economy.

China's innovation policy has resulted massive investments in research and development (R&D) infrastructure and higher education. Since 2000, China has increased its R&D spending by about 10 percent each year. As a result, its share of global R&D spending increased from 9.1 percent in 2008 to 12.3 percent in 2010, while the US' share fell from 35.4 percent to 34.4 percent. China's share is projected to grow even further this year, overtaking Japan as the world's second largest R&D investor.

Since 1998, the number of colleges in China has doubled, and the number of students has more than quintupled to about 6 million. More importantly, China's domestic doctorate awards in science and engineering have increased more than tenfold since the early 1990s, nearing the number of doctorates awarded in the US. Furthermore, China is now among the leading countries in science and technology publications.

China's patent boom is also of particular interest. In terms of total patenting activity, China has overtaken South Korea and Europe, and it is catching up with the US and Japan. In 2009, Chinese nationals accounted for nearly 90 percent of the country's domestic patent applications, indicating that the government's "indigenous innovation" policies have been successful, at least in quantitative terms.

Even so, the gap in innovation capacity persists. China's leadership is very conscious that the US retains a strong lead in R&D spending, patent applications and the per capita number of scientists and engineers. A telling example is that no Chinese company is among the top 20 global R&D spenders in the information technology industry, and China owns just 2 percent of worldwide patents; 95 percent of its patents are domestic.

The main causes of China's continuing innovation gap include severe quality problems in education, plagiarism in scientific work and barriers to private R&D investment. A major weakness of China's policy is its elaborate product and technology lists - made to assess compliance with government standardization requirements - which can quickly become outdated. Even more significant for China's indigenous innovation push is that the lists focus on existing technologies, rather than on the future innovations they are designed to promote.

In addition, China's progress is likely to be stifled by its policy on information security standards and certification. In its current form, this policy would create unintended disruptive side effects and could create potentially serious trade conflicts.

China's policies have no doubt increased technology-related trade conflicts with the US, adding to disputes over currency exchange rates and foreign direct investment. The US considers China's innovation policy to be "discriminatory", because it unfairly favors domestic producers and poses a threat to global intellectual property protection. And the US Chamber of Commerce argues that China's policies have the potential to "undermine significantly the innovative capacity of the American economy in key sectors, and, consequently, harm the competitiveness and livelihood of American business and the workers they employ".

These fears are exaggerated. Our research shows there have been substantial pragmatic adjustments to key Chinese policies and regulations in response to complaints by foreign enterprises and Chinese companies both, which have established a significant position in the international market and begun to accumulate a reasonably broad portfolio of intellectual property rights.

US trade negotiations with China have a significantly greater chance of success if there is a sharing of benefits that is acceptable to both sides. It is certainly in America's interest to foster US-China cooperation on science, technology, and innovation. But these partnerships need to be on an equal footing, with reciprocity of rights and obligations on contentious issues, such as finding the right balance between the protection of intellectual property rights and China's interest in technology diffusion.

The US, for instance, needs to acknowledge that Chinese firms feel disadvantaged by restrictions on Chinese foreign direct investment and the export of so-called "dual-purpose" technologies to China. Also, the US needs to engage more actively with China over Beijing's concerns about the distribution of benefits under the current rules of patent licensing and the role of essential patents in critical interoperability standards.

China, in turn, needs to acknowledge that the US needs safeguards against forced technology transfer through policies like compulsory licensing, information security standards and certification, and restrictive government procurement.

Progress toward such adjusted rules of reciprocity should be possible once the US and China accept the fact that, while their economic systems are different, their economies and innovation systems are interdependent. To move toward greater reciprocity, it is necessary to increase the level of trust. While this is not easy, given the deeply entrenched fears on both sides, we simply need to try some things together, demonstrate mutual gain, and then turn those smaller-scale projects into larger collaborations.

The author is senior research fellow of the East-West Center in Hawaii. The article is based on his recent testimony before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission.
 
^^^^
Read post# 63 sourced from ChinaDaily to get hold of what IP Patent lawyer/agent has to say about the junk patent filling happening in China to bump up the numbers..
 
nothing else can be expected out of delusional (could be illegal) bangladeshi defending the masters


Lets face it Chinese run circle around you guys all day long, probably faster on Sundays. Doers do while the whiners whine.

Your strategy of burning yourself to ashes with jealousy, and rise like the Phoenix is not working. It doesn't work for anybody.

Drop the jealousy, roll up your sleeves, and get to work.
 
@ grey boy

Point taken! But we are not number 1 IP violator ! China tops the " priority watch list " of IPR violators. The list includes 12 other countries including India

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

IndoCarib bhai, I don't know about that cos i got the information from a different source and its supposing to be the direct source from US, check it out, most of the article is about India, the list with India on the top of the list too, i think you will agreed with me both China and India are top of the list regarding IRP violation so my arguments still hold, am i right? ;)
US places India, Pak and China on watch list for IPR violation 03 May 2011

IPR_b_3_5_2011.jpg

US puts India on IPR violation watchlist

Washington: United States has put India, Pakistan and China on the top "priority watch list" with regard to breach of intellectual property rights (IPR).

America's trading partners on the Priority Watch List present the most significant concerns regarding insufficient IPR protection or enforcement, or otherwise limited market access for persons relying on intellectual property protection.

Twelve countries – India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Algeria, Argentina, Canada, Chile, Indonesia, Israel, Thailand and Venezuela – are on the Priority Watch List.
 
Lets face it Chinese run circle around you guys all day long, probably faster on Sundays. Doers do while the whiners whine.

Your strategy of burning yourself to ashes with jealousy, and rise like the Phoenix is not working. It doesn't work for anybody.

Drop the jealousy, roll up your sleeves, and get to work.

Let them run, circle around and do all the circus that they possibly can and more so on Sundays if they really wish to. It doesn't bother me. :) This thread is on a genuine issue and few are acting butt hurt.. Reality check is not that easy to face. stop acting mercenaries of the masters they can very well speak for themselves.. Roll your bag and move on to other thread you don't belong here..
 

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