Chinese Muslims linked to Games bombings

[roadrunner]

I was expecting this rationale from you. And frankly it is just too simplistic and immature.

60 years is a long period to set your house in order. It is exactly the sort of closeted mindset which tries to benchmark yourself just against your neighbor that we need to get away from.

Both India and Pakistan have done badly on education and I take no solace from the fact that we are better off than Pakistan. We did not do good enough and that is all that matters. We need to do far better to compete in the 21st century. Same goes for Pakistan.

It is up to Pakistanis to decide if they have done the best they could, given all the constraints.

So no rationale counter argument to the example I presented.

No link or proof to your theory that Indian Muslims had a lower literacy "base" in 1947 than other religious groups in India.

No link or proof that Pakistan's Hindu community has greatly been reduced since 1947.

ALRIGHT THEN! You have presented absolutely no proof of anything of what you say, throughout this entire thread. Until you do, there's no point in continuing this circular discussion, because you are presenting a false argument.

Same as above. You need to prove that this constitutes discrimination and they are falling behind others over a period.

Why do you not get this? You're the one who is suggesting that Indian Muslims had a lower prior base, not me! Therefore you present the evidence that their base was lower.

My evidence that Indian Muslims are discriminated against in the field of primary education is that 1) Less primary schools are built in Muslim dense areas of India as per the newspaper article i presented previously and 2) Indian Muslims have the lowest literacy rate of any Indian religious community. Now this is reasonable evidence that Indian Muslims are being discriminated against. What have you presented to explain why less primary schools are built in Muslim dense areas of India, or why Indian Muslims have a lower literacy than other religious groups? Absolutely nothing is the answer.

The link proves that Muslims can surpass the other communities in India in education if they really strive to do that. There are many examples in India including Gujarat.

The link or the table you've presented shows this. That in Muslim dense areas, Muslims have a lower literacy than Hindus. In Hindu dense areas, Muslim literacy SURPASSES Hindu literacy.

This suggests to me, that Indian Muslims are more hard working than Indian Hindus, but that because those Muslim densen areas have less primary education, the overall Muslim literacy rate is lower than Hindus.

You have proved this with your link.

Many UP Muslims are really regressive like your NWFP folks. They won't give their kids polio drops again like your NWFP folks, believing in all sorts of conspiracy theories. They will take some time to progress. And drag down the community for some more time.

NWFP has a 50% literacy. Sindh has a 50% literacy. In this case, is Sindh regressive and refusing polio drops also? If not then this argument of yours also falls flat on its face like every single other argument of yours in this thread. One can quote examples of Indian Hindu religious illiteracy all night if one wanted to. One example is shown in the picture below. Does this mean that when Sai baba does his regressive pulling golden eggs from his belly illusion, or generating a hareem or pure men, that Haryana is also a regressive community because some people fall for his madness?

You blaming this on culture, when Indian papers admit that Muslim dense areas of India do not get the funding for primary schools, and your very own table shows that Muslim dense regions do not get as much primary education as Hindu dense areas is evidence of clear discrimination and an anti Muslim mindset..all these factors will not get you, as Indians far when Indian Muslims divide India into yet further pieces.

 

[Vinod2070]

You are not responding to anything substantive in my posts.

You have not proven that Muslims have fallen behind other groups over the 60 year period and substantially so. The difference of 6-7 % from the national average doesn't seem to mean much. As proved by me, Jains have a literacy rate of 94%!

That would be the only litmus test for your allegation. Rest anything doesn't matter. If you can't do that, then your allegation is baseless.

 

[roadrunner]

You are not responding to anything substantive in my posts.

You have not proven that Muslims have fallen behind other groups over the 60 year period and substantially so. The difference of 6-7 % from the national average doesn't seem to mean much. As proved by me, Jains have a literacy rate of 94%!

That would be the only litmus test for your allegation. Rest anything doesn't matter. If you can't do that, then your allegation is baseless.

Jains have the highest literacy precisely because Jains are not discriminated against.

Muslims have the lowest literacy because they are discriminated against. Even you provided proof of this in your table. Why not have a closer look at what your table shows. I'll give you a breakdown of the Muslim dense areas.

[The following states have Muslim minorities as indicated by percentages: Assam (31 percent), Kerala (25 percent) West Bengal (25 percent), Uttar Pradesh (17.3 percent), Bihar (16 percent) and Karnataka (16 percent). The largest number live in the UP where the total population is more than that of Pakistan.]

Now, let's see how the Muslims fair against the Hindus in India in the Muslim dense regions.

In Assam, where 31 per cent of the population is Muslim, Hindu literacy is 70%, Untouchable literacy is 64%, and Muslim literacy is 48%. This has the highest percentage of Muslims in an Indian state, yet Untouchables are 16% more literate than Muslims!!

In Kerala, where 25 per cent of the population is Muslim, Hindu literacy is 90%, Muslim literacy is 89%

In West Bengal, where 25 per cent of the population is Muslim, Hindu literacy is 72%, Muslim literacy is 58% and Untouchable literacy is 56%

In UP, where 18 per cent of the population is Muslim, Hindu literacy is 58%, Untouchable literacy is 46%, and Muslim literacy is 48% . This area has the most number of Muslims in India. Their level of literacy is the same as the Untouchables, and around 10% lower than Hindus.

When the Muslim population percentage gets above 11% (ie. Muslim dense regions of India), only 2 states out of 10 have a higher Muslim literacy than Hindu one. These are right on the border of 11%. Why is it, that in Muslim dense districts, Muslims have lower literacy than Untouchables, yet when one looks at the Hindu dense districts, Muslims perform better on average than their Hindu fellows?

When one gets to all the Muslim populations BELOW 11% (ie. Hindu dense areas), the Muslims have better literacy rates than the Hindus. In 7 out of 11 states, India Muslims outperform Indian Hindus. So the level of literacy has nothing to do with religion.

The discrimination is the most clear in those areas where there is a dense Muslim population. The reason in UP is that less primary schools are built for Muslim children, which explains why they rank with the Untouchables in education. The same reason is probably the cause in the other Muslim dense districts then.

 

[Vinod2070]

Jains have the highest literacy precisely because Jains are not discriminated against.

But you said only Muslims are discriminated. So by definition others are not discriminated. Why such a big difference between the other communities then? Why every other minority is far ahead of both Hindus and the Muslims?

One reason that Muslims and untouchables are comparable is that most Muslim converts were untouchables and come from similar socio-economic strata.

Assam, well most of the Muslims there are Bangladeshis. No point in discussing them.

You have still not replied to my previous post. Pl. read it again and reply.

 

[Flintlock]

Jains have the highest literacy precisely because Jains are not discriminated against.

Jains are discriminating against hindus, which is why Hindus have lower literacy.

 

[Nafees]

Assam, well most of the Muslims there are Bangladeshis.

This is not backed up by any evidence. This is absolutely vague and fake information. Why the Bangladeshi will go in Assam?

 

[Vinod2070]

This is not backed up by any evidence. This is absolutely vague and fake information. Why the Bangladeshi will go in Assam?

Economic migration.

 

[vish]

Economic migration.

I'll second that.

 

[Flintlock]

Three Killed in Renewed Violence in Western China

By Jill Drew
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, August 12, 2008; 8:40 AM

BEIJING, Aug. 12 -- Three security officials were killed at a roadside checkpoint in western China's Xinjiang region today when at least one assailant jumped off a passing vehicle and stabbed them to death, state media reported. It was the third deadly incident in nine days, coinciding with the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing.

A fourth security official was wounded in today's attack in Yamanya town and the assailants remain at large, according to the New China News Agency.

The attack occurred around 9 a.m. as local government officials were checking names of people who passed through a checkpoint about 18 miles from Kashgar, the oasis town where 16 paramilitary border guards were killed on Aug. 4 and 16 others were injured when two men drove a dump truck into a crowd of jogging officers and then lobbed homemade explosives at them. Another incident on Aug. 10 claimed 12 lives, when a string of explosions rocked Kucha, a town about halfway between Kashgar and Xinjiang's capital of Urumqi. Ten attackers, one security guard and one bystander died, according to state media reports.

The spike in violence has claimed 31 lives in the restive desert region where China meets central Asia. It comes after a separatist group that calls itself the Turkestan Islamic Party released three videos threatening attacks during the Olympic Games, especially targeted at government and police facilities and key Olympic areas. Chinese government officials say they have no evidence the attacks are linked to separatist groups, but they have suggested the attacks are terrorism.

Xinjiang is home to the Uighurs, a primarily Muslim ethnic group that speaks a Turkic language and has long chafed under Chinese authority. The Chinese government responded with overwhelming force after sporadic bombings in the region during the 1990s and the area has been tense, but mostly quiet for more than a decade.

Analysts believe China's hosting of the Olympic Games has emboldened some to challenge Beijing's claims of a stable, harmonious country with airtight security.

"The pattern of attacks, three in a row during the Games with security forces on high alert, is an act of defiance that is unparalleled in recent Xinjiang history," said Nicholas Bequelin, a China researcher for Human Rights Watch in Hong Kong.

Bequelin condemned the attacks as "unjustifiable," but said "the global focus on China is an opportunity for people who believe their plight is ignored and invisible to take action."

Although the violence has been limited to a remote part of the country, killing handfuls not hundreds, it is still surprising given the tight security that blankets the Xinjiang region.

"The concern here is that, at a minimum, this is going to add volatility to the region and polarize the Uighur and Chinese communities," Bequelin said. "There is also a fear the government will launch a widespread, indiscriminate, repressive campaign targeted far beyond the groups advocating use of violence."

Liu Jiangyong, a professor of national security at Tsinghua University's Institute of International Studies, said he expects more attacks in the region before the Games are over.

"We can see that the attackers are merciless fugitives, so the government should be on high alert," Liu said. "Because they cannot carry out such attacks in their most desirable cities like Beijing, they have to turn to local locations."

Despite the rudimentary weapons and homemade explosives used in the attacks, Liu said he suspects that international terrorist organizations are involved. He cited the well-coordinated planning of incidents and the fact that in the Kasha bombings two attackers blew themselves up. "Their methods are quite similar to some other international terrorist attacks," Liu said.

The Chinese government has deployed more than 100,000 police and military personnel in Beijing to provide security during the Games. Despite the force, a lone man wielding a knife attacked the in-laws of Hugh McCutcheon, coach of the U.S. Men's Olympic Volleyball team on Aug. 10. The attacker killed Todd Bachman and severely injured his wife, Barbara.

Researcher Liu Songjie contributed to this report